Your Response was posted! Click here to see it.
Posted on Oct 9, 2014
Does the Camp Lejeune death show we need to crack down on firearm safety?
50.6K
255
144
18
18
0
Yesterday, Marine Lance Cpl. Brandon Little was sentenced to two years behind bars for inadvertently shooting and killing a fellow Marine outside the Camp Lejeune main gate back in April. Little’s rank and pay were also reduced to E-1, and he will receive a dishonorable discharge.
Little said he had been absent-mindedly flicking the safety switch on his M4 service rifle from “safe” to “semi” while directing traffic at the end of a 12-hour shift. When he returned to the gate house he was about to unload his weapon, but didn’t check to make sure the safety was on. He pulled back the charging handle and accidentally chambered a round. When that happened, he stood up to try to correct it, but pulled the trigger in the process, shooting Lance Cpl. Mark Boterf who was in front of him.
The lead attorney for the government argued Little should get a five-year sentence with forfeiture of all pay and rank and a dishonorable discharge for violating all four of the Marines’ cardinal firearms safety rules. Would a tougher sentence have sent a more powerful message for all Marines and service members?
On the other hand, Little’s defense pointed out he had taken full responsibility for his actions and stressed he will endure a lifetime of guilt and torment for what happened. Since this is an isolated incident, should Little’s punishment be left at that?
This tragic case certainly brings attention to the importance of weapon safety and proper procedures. The Marine’s death was an accident, but it could have easily been prevented had Little not been messing around with his gun. Are some service members becoming too comfortable with carrying such powerful weapons that they forget safety measures?
What can be done to prevent these tragedies from happening? What are some mistakes you’ve seen fellow service members make with their firearms that go against proper safety measures?
Little said he had been absent-mindedly flicking the safety switch on his M4 service rifle from “safe” to “semi” while directing traffic at the end of a 12-hour shift. When he returned to the gate house he was about to unload his weapon, but didn’t check to make sure the safety was on. He pulled back the charging handle and accidentally chambered a round. When that happened, he stood up to try to correct it, but pulled the trigger in the process, shooting Lance Cpl. Mark Boterf who was in front of him.
The lead attorney for the government argued Little should get a five-year sentence with forfeiture of all pay and rank and a dishonorable discharge for violating all four of the Marines’ cardinal firearms safety rules. Would a tougher sentence have sent a more powerful message for all Marines and service members?
On the other hand, Little’s defense pointed out he had taken full responsibility for his actions and stressed he will endure a lifetime of guilt and torment for what happened. Since this is an isolated incident, should Little’s punishment be left at that?
This tragic case certainly brings attention to the importance of weapon safety and proper procedures. The Marine’s death was an accident, but it could have easily been prevented had Little not been messing around with his gun. Are some service members becoming too comfortable with carrying such powerful weapons that they forget safety measures?
What can be done to prevent these tragedies from happening? What are some mistakes you’ve seen fellow service members make with their firearms that go against proper safety measures?
Camp Lejeune
Marine Corps
Safety
Firearms and Guns
Command Post
Posted 11 y ago
Responses: 76
27
27
0
I haven't seen anything like this, but it does go to show, that even though we are trained over and over again, we are still human and still make mistakes, albeit, a grave mistake in this case. There is no excuse for what happened and I honestly do think that his punishment should have been more severe, we are taught from Day 1 of BCT, at least in the Army, how to handle a firearm, and to always keep your finger off of the trigger. PERIOD.
(27)
(0)
SGT Criss M.
Accidents happen. Hasn't everyone had a split second brain fart but was lucky that no one was hurt or nothing became of it? I've seen where a round went off while double checking to see if your weapon was clear. Fortunately, .45 was aimed at the clearing bucket that was full of sand. Unfortunately, this time someone was killed. It was an accident.
(0)
(0)
SFC Eric Williams
There appears to be a reality that may tell a different story than the defence.
I'm concidering the weapons training all branches of the military receive.
I'm concidering the weapons training all branches of the military receive.
(0)
(0)
GySgt Charles Smith
1. Treat every weapon as if it was loaded.
2. Never point your weapon at anything that you do not intend to shoot.
3. Keep your finger straight and off the trigger until you are ready to fire.
4. Keep the weapon on safe until you intend to fire.
I have been out for over a decade and not only can I still quote the 4 firearms safety rules from memory, but I know first-hand that every Marine before they get to the rifle range at recruit training can quote them. All four were violated in order for this unfortunate incident to occur and that is why ww dropped the term "accidental discharge" in favor of the more appropriate term "negligent discharge." This incident was the direct result of a Marine "neglecting" his duty to abide by those rules at all times.
2. Never point your weapon at anything that you do not intend to shoot.
3. Keep your finger straight and off the trigger until you are ready to fire.
4. Keep the weapon on safe until you intend to fire.
I have been out for over a decade and not only can I still quote the 4 firearms safety rules from memory, but I know first-hand that every Marine before they get to the rifle range at recruit training can quote them. All four were violated in order for this unfortunate incident to occur and that is why ww dropped the term "accidental discharge" in favor of the more appropriate term "negligent discharge." This incident was the direct result of a Marine "neglecting" his duty to abide by those rules at all times.
(3)
(0)
19
19
0
O.K. If I read this right, this was not a mistake. Sounds like he executed his fellow service member and came up with an excuse on how he shot him.
You do not accidentally pull back a charging handle on an M4. It takes a lot of effort, even when you are trying to do it on purpose. Secondly, even if a weapon is on safe, if you pull back a charging handle of an M4 that has a loaded magazine, it will chamber a round. One of the first things in clearing a weapon is making sure there is not a load magazine in the magazine well.
There are two many "perfect" events in this story to be true....accidentally "flick the safety on fire", did not realize a magazine was in the weapon; pulled the charging handle back and accidentally loaded a round, accidentally pointed the weapon at his partner that would cause a "kill shot" if a round went off, and then accidentally pulled the trigger killing his buddy.
You do not accidentally pull back a charging handle on an M4. It takes a lot of effort, even when you are trying to do it on purpose. Secondly, even if a weapon is on safe, if you pull back a charging handle of an M4 that has a loaded magazine, it will chamber a round. One of the first things in clearing a weapon is making sure there is not a load magazine in the magazine well.
There are two many "perfect" events in this story to be true....accidentally "flick the safety on fire", did not realize a magazine was in the weapon; pulled the charging handle back and accidentally loaded a round, accidentally pointed the weapon at his partner that would cause a "kill shot" if a round went off, and then accidentally pulled the trigger killing his buddy.
(19)
(0)
Cpl Conrad Rogers
Makes a lot of sense, but we do not know if there was a history with the 2 Marines.
(0)
(0)
SSG Ray Murphy
Cpl Conrad Rogers - Doesn't always have to have a history. It helps the story, but isn't required to murder someone.
(1)
(0)
To be absent-mindedly flicking the safety switch on his M4 service rifle from “safe” to “semi” while directing traffic at the end of a 12-hour shift. And then pulling back the charging handle and accidentally chambering a round. What the hell do you mean accidentally, does he think that the good gun ferry would make it safe and stop the round. For gods sake that is asinine. You know he has received better training then that. It is totally inexcusable and should have been dealt with much harsher. I have no sympathy for this asinine idiot and hope the family of Lance Cpl. Mark Boterf can find some peace after this tragedy.
(17)
(0)
14
14
0
My thoughts are very similar to Sgt Maxwell, from Camp Red Cloud. This situation could have been avoided, no doubt. It's sad, it shows accidents do happen, but it does not take away from basic weapons handling procedures. There are other discussion points which could be addressed, as well...but I will not open the 'box' on this. Ultimately one of our Marines died and another will have to live with this pain for the rest of his days. Tragic all around!
(14)
(0)
SFC(P) (Join to see)
GySgt George Vukovich, I think that you are right in the pain that he will have to live with, also this Marine's family. Fratricide is a terrible thing no matter where or when it happens. It is terrible to know that one of our own is no longer with us, and it is no fault of their own, and not even from an enemy of our country, but due to the negligence of another one of our brothers.
(5)
(0)
CPO Andy Carrillo, MS
SFC(P) (Join to see) - Criminal negligence and an apparent lack of concern for the life and safety of others, obviously. I hope my step-son (4th wk, MCRD San Diego) learns to be hyper-vigilant when it comes to weapons safety.
(0)
(0)
9
9
0
SFC(P) (Join to see) pretty well summed it up. Regardless of how tormented this young man will be for the rest of his life, he knew better, he chose to ignore gun safety rules and training! He should have gotten the max punishment allowed.
Bottom line is that at some point in time most of us have been guilty of letting our guard down and not paying 100% attention when handling fire arms. Unfortunately for some, the more experience we have the more lax some become.
I have a very close friend, retired MSG (Special Forces), who only two weeks ago, shot off his index finger on left hand by not paying attention to what he was doing. He ejected the magaizine out of his pistol, however forgot to eject the round out of the chamber and "bam" off to the ER and emergency surgery...lost the entire index finger. This happened in his "manroom" in his home. His wife was home and it could have gotten her as well! NO EXCUSE...NO FORGIVENESS!
There is no forgiveness for failures of this nature, for the harm we do to others and at times to ourself. At least not in my opinion! I agree completely with SGT Maxwell.
Bottom line is that at some point in time most of us have been guilty of letting our guard down and not paying 100% attention when handling fire arms. Unfortunately for some, the more experience we have the more lax some become.
I have a very close friend, retired MSG (Special Forces), who only two weeks ago, shot off his index finger on left hand by not paying attention to what he was doing. He ejected the magaizine out of his pistol, however forgot to eject the round out of the chamber and "bam" off to the ER and emergency surgery...lost the entire index finger. This happened in his "manroom" in his home. His wife was home and it could have gotten her as well! NO EXCUSE...NO FORGIVENESS!
There is no forgiveness for failures of this nature, for the harm we do to others and at times to ourself. At least not in my opinion! I agree completely with SGT Maxwell.
(9)
(0)
9
8
1
If someone zapped my baby and only got two years for it I would be livid! Marines sleep with their weapon. They know every molecule of it. This sounds fishy to me. I hope they did a proper investigation, cause I don't buy it.
(9)
(1)
SSG Maurice P.
SFC MERINO you hit the nail on the head that marine knew exactly what he was doing the marine corps trains you so well on the characteristics of your weapon and about safety that it is like breathing and swallowing its a natural reflex action he shot that guy on purpose...
(0)
(0)
SFC(P) (Join to see)
SFC Mark Merino, i agree with you on this, whats going through my mind is why are you sitting to turn in your service weapon? I thought you were suppose to be standing. adn 2 how do you do it twice, i know with us the 1st thing you do is drop that magazine, now by shear dumb luck you would only have one so if there was a hair of a chance thats all you got off was that one, but that one could also have been the killer....Like you said something is not right there.
(0)
(0)
This Is My Rifle. This Is My Gun
This is for fighting. This is for fun. *UPLOADED WITH PERMISSION* DONATE: https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_donations&business=GUNGJNSJWU3ZS&lc=US&i...
Someone else said it on this thread but I still remember to this day "Never point your weapon at anything you aren't willing to take out" Pointing your weapon "down range" when clearing it. Making sure it's cleared properly. Not to make light of matters, but if he was bored, maybe he should have remembered the scene from I think it was Full Metal Jacket. http://youtu.be/4kU0XCVey_U
(7)
(0)
PO1 Steven Kuhn
If firearms were deadly all by themselves then I would agree with you, but like every other tool it depends upon the person holding them. While any killing is tragic, if someone had a weapon and could have used it to drop the bad guy then lives would have been saved. It is the same mentality as on college gun free zones where people know there will be no weapons so women get raped. I feel that if responsible citizens who prayed they never had to use their weapons had them when someone needed assistance, and they used them lawfully for their own safety or that of others in imminent threat of danger/loss of lfe, then that is adequate gun control!
(2)
(0)
SSG Don Maggart
Ready on the Left Ready on the Right Ready in the Center,
Firer's Lock and Load your first 30 round magazine "Rock & Roll"
Firer's Lock and Load your first 30 round magazine "Rock & Roll"
(0)
(0)
5
5
0
First, why was he standing guard for 12 hours? Second, weapons training always stressed "this isn't a toy". Third, his sentence should have been stiffer, regardless of his acceptance of wrong.
(5)
(0)
Cpl Ray Fernandez
MP gate duty is usually 12 hours. When I was FAPed to PMO at 29 Palms. We essentially worked 14 hour days. 1 hour brief 12 hours on post either patrolling or at gate duty. Then you come back and get debriefed for another hour. I didn't mind because I'd work 5 days one week, and 2 days and once a month one of the 5 day off weeks I'd give up about half a day for training.
(1)
(0)
CDR Michael Goldschmidt
Cpl Ray Fernandez - Just because that's the way MP gate duty goes doesn't mean it's smart or the best way of doing business. I learned a long time ago that almost everything is a leadership issue.
(0)
(0)
Cpl Elizabeth Koeneman
That's how it goes. When I was security platoon, we did 12 hours at the gate. But the schedule wasn't too bad. Ours was 2 on, 2 off, 3 on, 2 off, 2 on, 3 off... so we alternated between working one weekend and getting 3 days off the next.
(0)
(0)
5
5
0
When I was active duty as an MP, we had a dispatcher discharge a firearm in side dispatch. It was a night shift and about 2 in the morning. This LCpl was pulling his service Baretta out of the holster flipping it on his fingers and shoving it back in the holster. He did this a few times, not realizing that at some point a round was chambered by the friction of the holster. Next time he brought the pistol out and started spinning it "BANG" right through the floor of dispatch. Subsequently, dispatchers were relieved of their obligation to maintain a firearm while doing dispatch duties and this LCpl was given a write-up (page 11, I think)
Here was my take on that situation. I think that the focus was in the wrong direction here. This LCpl was bored and forget some primary safety concerns, same as the LCpl in the story. Boredom is a dangerous thing when coupled with young people and firearms. I think punishing not only the perpetrator but all others who did not do something wrong is an inappropriate knee-jerk reaction. I think consistent refresher training, with appropriate information regarding rules of deadly force as well as outcomes for mis-use of deadly force were warranted. As well, the structure of the shift which led to the incident should have been reviewed. MP's on watch were rotated from one post to another throughout the shift so that no on person is left in a location for longer than I think it was 4 hours. But dispatchers did not get rotated. We concentrate too much energy on the discipline, which is necessary, but not enough attention on the root cause analysis and inevitable change.
Here was my take on that situation. I think that the focus was in the wrong direction here. This LCpl was bored and forget some primary safety concerns, same as the LCpl in the story. Boredom is a dangerous thing when coupled with young people and firearms. I think punishing not only the perpetrator but all others who did not do something wrong is an inappropriate knee-jerk reaction. I think consistent refresher training, with appropriate information regarding rules of deadly force as well as outcomes for mis-use of deadly force were warranted. As well, the structure of the shift which led to the incident should have been reviewed. MP's on watch were rotated from one post to another throughout the shift so that no on person is left in a location for longer than I think it was 4 hours. But dispatchers did not get rotated. We concentrate too much energy on the discipline, which is necessary, but not enough attention on the root cause analysis and inevitable change.
(5)
(0)
Cpl (Join to see)
MSG Brad Sand That is an accurate statement about boredom, though being an MP on Camp Pendleton on night shift was rarely boring if you were patrol. It is when you screw up and are assigned to the ammo dump or Christianitos gate that things get pretty bad.
Group retribution for the individual mistake was pretty common with the units I was in. It allowed the the opportunity to police our own and ensure there was not a recurrence.
I would also like to differentiate down-time from On-Duty. There was an awful lot of downtime and hurry up and wait time, but On-Duty was another matter. For downtime there was always a deck of cards somewhere.
And then in the end, sometimes you just cannot fix stupid.
Group retribution for the individual mistake was pretty common with the units I was in. It allowed the the opportunity to police our own and ensure there was not a recurrence.
I would also like to differentiate down-time from On-Duty. There was an awful lot of downtime and hurry up and wait time, but On-Duty was another matter. For downtime there was always a deck of cards somewhere.
And then in the end, sometimes you just cannot fix stupid.
(2)
(0)
PO1 (Join to see)
I completely agree, the knee jerk reaction that is seen when there is an incident is rarely the right solution. We focus more on punishment which is of course warranted for the individual; however for everyone else more training and reinforcement of basics are fundamental to ensure an accident of same nature is minimized. Stupid will always be present. With the new generation joining they have a tendency to dig in and continue their idiotic ways if we are not more intelligent about the way we handle the situation. It's not the days of "jump"/"how high".
(1)
(0)
4
4
0
Regardless of the situation, he should have:
1. Known to maintain his weapon pointed in a safe direction...always
2. Not have had ammo once his shift was over. No turn in? Why was he allowed to take his weapon and ammo home? We have much stricter guidelines in the Army.
3. Not have pulled the trigger while at home. Get off your shift, clear your weapon, drop the magazine, and secure your weapon and ammo.
We could go back and forth all day long and place blame in every direction. It was a failure at all levels and a Marine lost his life in the process.
God rest his soul...
1. Known to maintain his weapon pointed in a safe direction...always
2. Not have had ammo once his shift was over. No turn in? Why was he allowed to take his weapon and ammo home? We have much stricter guidelines in the Army.
3. Not have pulled the trigger while at home. Get off your shift, clear your weapon, drop the magazine, and secure your weapon and ammo.
We could go back and forth all day long and place blame in every direction. It was a failure at all levels and a Marine lost his life in the process.
God rest his soul...
(4)
(0)
CMDCM Gene Treants
CPT I must be missing something. Where are you seeing anything about him being at home? This is the end of a 12 hour shift and he is still in the Guard Shack at the Gate. I agree that he needed to keep his weapon in a safe direction ALWAYS!
I also think the 12 and 24 hour shifts doing anything in the Guard shack or even sitting at a desk are a BIG part of the problem. I remember well how I felt at the end of a 12 hour shift, 24 hour shift, and even - heavens a 36 hour (OMG) ASW watch at sea. The command is a part of the problem when WE insist on putting our people at risk by imposing long shifts for no reasonable reason.
As a consequence of this Marines inattention and the long hours, another Marine lost his life. I echo your sentiment;
God rest his soul...
I also think the 12 and 24 hour shifts doing anything in the Guard shack or even sitting at a desk are a BIG part of the problem. I remember well how I felt at the end of a 12 hour shift, 24 hour shift, and even - heavens a 36 hour (OMG) ASW watch at sea. The command is a part of the problem when WE insist on putting our people at risk by imposing long shifts for no reasonable reason.
As a consequence of this Marines inattention and the long hours, another Marine lost his life. I echo your sentiment;
God rest his soul...
(1)
(0)
Read This Next
Continue with Facebook 
Continue with Google