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As leaders, we should automatically respect our subordinates at all times. There is a stark difference between leadership and dictatorship. As soon as the leaders in the military figure this out, they will notice a peak in the retention rate of their Soldiers.
I have communicated with over 300 Soldiers who are eligible to extend their enlistment contract within the past few months and was shocked to hear the responses from some of them. One Soldier mentioned, “I would remain in the military but cannot understand why I’m getting cursed out when asked to do something. I am a grown man!” I asked this same Soldier if he’d discuss with his leaders the disrespect he feels and he said that he had spoken with them about it. My final question to him was, “So what did they say?” He replied, “They said that I am a Soldier and if I can’t handle it, get out!”
As a leader myself, I apologized to this Soldier and informed him that some leaders are called leaders because of their position or title, not because of their leadership. I then annotated in the retention book that he was not going to extend his contract but instead, leave the military because of the disrespect from his leadership.
Must a Soldier be a Chaplain to get respected? Can a Soldier who informs his or her chain of command that the speaking of profanity is against their religion be provided the same respect that a chaplain receives? Should fellow Soldiers respect these Soldiers? To me, the answer is quite simple. We should.
I am one of these Soldiers. I am a non-paid minister at a local church. The Soldiers who are aware of this duty respect the fact I am a Soldier and a minister. I've expressed to others that I would like for them to be themselves while in my presence, as I would perceive unrealism if they would change their talk, speech, or attitude just because I was standing around in the vicinity. Some disagreed but others said okay and would use profanity as if I’m not around. It didn’t then and doesn’t bother me a bit. However, there might be Soldiers that are affected by vulgar and demeaning language and I believe this should be respected.
If smoking a cigarette around a non-smoker is a sign of disrespect, I believe using profanity around a non-profanity speaker falls within the same guidelines if the Soldier speaks up. Leaders must understand that profanity can be damning to a lot of people. The “F” word has been known to cause havoc, begin fights, and unfortunately result in someone being killed. To tell a Soldier to deal with the disrespect because you're a Soldier is unacceptable.
This is not a new Army. Respect began when the Army began.
I have communicated with over 300 Soldiers who are eligible to extend their enlistment contract within the past few months and was shocked to hear the responses from some of them. One Soldier mentioned, “I would remain in the military but cannot understand why I’m getting cursed out when asked to do something. I am a grown man!” I asked this same Soldier if he’d discuss with his leaders the disrespect he feels and he said that he had spoken with them about it. My final question to him was, “So what did they say?” He replied, “They said that I am a Soldier and if I can’t handle it, get out!”
As a leader myself, I apologized to this Soldier and informed him that some leaders are called leaders because of their position or title, not because of their leadership. I then annotated in the retention book that he was not going to extend his contract but instead, leave the military because of the disrespect from his leadership.
Must a Soldier be a Chaplain to get respected? Can a Soldier who informs his or her chain of command that the speaking of profanity is against their religion be provided the same respect that a chaplain receives? Should fellow Soldiers respect these Soldiers? To me, the answer is quite simple. We should.
I am one of these Soldiers. I am a non-paid minister at a local church. The Soldiers who are aware of this duty respect the fact I am a Soldier and a minister. I've expressed to others that I would like for them to be themselves while in my presence, as I would perceive unrealism if they would change their talk, speech, or attitude just because I was standing around in the vicinity. Some disagreed but others said okay and would use profanity as if I’m not around. It didn’t then and doesn’t bother me a bit. However, there might be Soldiers that are affected by vulgar and demeaning language and I believe this should be respected.
If smoking a cigarette around a non-smoker is a sign of disrespect, I believe using profanity around a non-profanity speaker falls within the same guidelines if the Soldier speaks up. Leaders must understand that profanity can be damning to a lot of people. The “F” word has been known to cause havoc, begin fights, and unfortunately result in someone being killed. To tell a Soldier to deal with the disrespect because you're a Soldier is unacceptable.
This is not a new Army. Respect began when the Army began.
Religion
Respect
Values
Command Post
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
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MSG (Join to see) - MSG, I disagree that respect is automatic. TREATING with respect should be automatic, but respecting the individual should still be earned. I will treat everyone with the same level of respect, but regardless, I respect the opinions of some more than others based on their experiences.
If someone requests me not to swear around them, I will. However, I refuse to live my life in "fear" of offending someone. This is who I am, and I will respond to those request me to modify behavior around them. I don't ask smokers to not smoke around me....I just move upwind. I don't ask homosexuals not to talk about their life, I just ask not to share "gory details", just like I would expect of any heterosexual. If something offends me, I will address it and I expect the same around me.
Being TREATED with respect is given (until lost)....being RESPECTED is earned. There is a small, but distinct difference.
v/r,
CPT Butler
If someone requests me not to swear around them, I will. However, I refuse to live my life in "fear" of offending someone. This is who I am, and I will respond to those request me to modify behavior around them. I don't ask smokers to not smoke around me....I just move upwind. I don't ask homosexuals not to talk about their life, I just ask not to share "gory details", just like I would expect of any heterosexual. If something offends me, I will address it and I expect the same around me.
Being TREATED with respect is given (until lost)....being RESPECTED is earned. There is a small, but distinct difference.
v/r,
CPT Butler
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CPT (Join to see)
MAJ (Join to see) - Between the responsibilities of work, school, command....and then a family member needed surgery. It had been pretty crazy. LOL. I'll PM ya with a few things.....probably going to be a really busy summer...but I think there's a lot of things that I'm trying to do that are probably already done....
v/r,
CPT Butler
v/r,
CPT Butler
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MSG (Join to see)
Watch this Sir (CPT Jonathan Butler) I respect you although I do not know you. Why is this? Because as you stated, respect should be automatically rendered until one provides a reason not to give the respect. We are in agreement. I hate the fact that most are focusing on the swearing from the original post because the focus should be on respect. Army Soldiers who live the ARMY values should automatically know this. The third letter in the acronym LDRSHIP defines what we should do as Soldiers when it comes to respect. We are to treat others as they should be treated. I believe we are speaking the same language Sir but with a small difference. I have served in three sections (Active Army, Army Reserve and Active Guard Reserve totaling 26 years on 15 May and in different capacities. I can surely say that the respect for others isn't there like it used to be and like it needs to be. NCOs are looking for their next promotion instead of caring about their Soldiers' welfare and promotion opportunities.
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CPT (Join to see)
MSG (Join to see) - Respect as a whole has degraded in our culture (civilian and military). I would never dream of calling female friends a bitch or a whore, but these are common. Kids disrespect their parents routinely without discipline.
Likewise, I am watching several concerning trends that I am hoping to make a small impact on.
First, I have watched some of the degradation of the NCO Corps. This isn't meant to be an insult. Even my MSGs have seen it and commented. Some of the responsibilities have been stripped away, and likewise, the immense pride in the NCO corps doesn't seem to be what it has been in prior generations. As a select number of NCOs become focused on their own advancement, they "kiss ass" to officers and senior NCOs to get promoted rather than rocking the boat for the right reasons. Others are not taught the tactfulness in presenting their ideas, which can make enemies. For example, I read something that said "Officers, this is NCO business. Stay out unless asked for," which discounts the abilities of mustangs, and others that have had leadership and other experiences helping. These can often make enemies that prevent advancement.
Second, "respect" is probably the most commonly misinterpreted meaning, and the definition gets more and more vague as time goes on. People confused "respect" and "acceptance". I do not need to agree with you to respect you. You are an individual with a wealth of knowledge and experiences, and to discredit you automatically would be a disservice to yourself and the troops that you oversee.
I see this problem a lot with MEDCOM. One of my Soldiers/friends is undergoing medical process, but it is being done so wrong. Trying to help her navigate the process, which is stressful enough....and then feeling that her own "chain" while receiving care is attempting to sabotage her career is SO incredibly frustrating.
v/r,
CPT Butler
Likewise, I am watching several concerning trends that I am hoping to make a small impact on.
First, I have watched some of the degradation of the NCO Corps. This isn't meant to be an insult. Even my MSGs have seen it and commented. Some of the responsibilities have been stripped away, and likewise, the immense pride in the NCO corps doesn't seem to be what it has been in prior generations. As a select number of NCOs become focused on their own advancement, they "kiss ass" to officers and senior NCOs to get promoted rather than rocking the boat for the right reasons. Others are not taught the tactfulness in presenting their ideas, which can make enemies. For example, I read something that said "Officers, this is NCO business. Stay out unless asked for," which discounts the abilities of mustangs, and others that have had leadership and other experiences helping. These can often make enemies that prevent advancement.
Second, "respect" is probably the most commonly misinterpreted meaning, and the definition gets more and more vague as time goes on. People confused "respect" and "acceptance". I do not need to agree with you to respect you. You are an individual with a wealth of knowledge and experiences, and to discredit you automatically would be a disservice to yourself and the troops that you oversee.
I see this problem a lot with MEDCOM. One of my Soldiers/friends is undergoing medical process, but it is being done so wrong. Trying to help her navigate the process, which is stressful enough....and then feeling that her own "chain" while receiving care is attempting to sabotage her career is SO incredibly frustrating.
v/r,
CPT Butler
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MSG (Join to see)
CPT Jonathan Butler, well witten Sir. I cannot disagree with you at all. I've seen the slow degredation of the NCO Corps as well Sir. No insult when it's the truth and I feel so bad that I am seeing this on my way out. I can only imagine wha the future holds for our military if the NCOs don't follow the NCO Creed in its entirety. We have to accomplish the mission and take care of our Soldiers. The conjunction in between is the word "AND" but all too often the welfare of the Soldiers is placed on the back burner. This should not be.
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I concur we should respect our Soldiers. If you are the type of leader who chooses to expell a fountain of profanity, all the the time it will become ineffective. I do not cuss however a mentor of mine once said "A well placed "F" in conversation can be effective."
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I totally agreed, we should be treating our American best Soldier with dignity and respect. When I joined the Army back in the 90's that was the culture, the yelling and the cursing. But now we have a become a more aware and professional Army. I remember the words of wisdom that my SGM Joseph said to me "only ignorant people swear or curse for their lack of knowledge and words".
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I am a Christian; I do not curse. I do not generally ask SM's to refrain from profanity in my presence, as I expected the profanity when I joined. If they ask about my preference -- as sometimes happens -- I tell them.
It would please me to no end to never hear another curse word, especially the casual strings of F-bombs and other profanity that I hear so often at work.
I've actually had my peers try to talk me into cursing, and tell me that the Army will make me a curser. I responded that that may be so, but for now I have both the discipline and the vocabulary to abstain from profanity.
It would please me to no end to never hear another curse word, especially the casual strings of F-bombs and other profanity that I hear so often at work.
I've actually had my peers try to talk me into cursing, and tell me that the Army will make me a curser. I responded that that may be so, but for now I have both the discipline and the vocabulary to abstain from profanity.
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there are pros and cons to profanity example private please bring me the ammo can. private can you hurry and bring me the ammo can. private move you fing ass and bring me that can stop pussy footing around and get the job done we all want to go home.
The simple start is to ask in a nice way and then increase if they do not get the message then cus at them maybe that will get the attention if it still doesn't work then start throwing stuff at them or remedial training respect is earned not given. There is the saying you half to respect the rank not them person but if you respect them both then you have one hell of a leader and should learn from that person. As far as just standing around and cussing there is no real call for it it just shows your lack of intelligence and sheds your self in a bad light I was a 19 delta cav scout and also a combat life saver there are times I needed to yell to get it across to someone to get the lead out of there ass and move
The simple start is to ask in a nice way and then increase if they do not get the message then cus at them maybe that will get the attention if it still doesn't work then start throwing stuff at them or remedial training respect is earned not given. There is the saying you half to respect the rank not them person but if you respect them both then you have one hell of a leader and should learn from that person. As far as just standing around and cussing there is no real call for it it just shows your lack of intelligence and sheds your self in a bad light I was a 19 delta cav scout and also a combat life saver there are times I needed to yell to get it across to someone to get the lead out of there ass and move
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While I served I had the dipleasure of have several leaders see it as their mission to force out soldiers they did like. I have a very good friend who would very like have been a career enlisted soldier, but when it came time to reup he was ready to be done.
At 3 seoerate time in my career I fractured my ankle, after the first time I went from a pt score of 280 down to a 230-250 because running became very difficult for me. At the time of the first injury it was thought I had a bad sprain, it took 3 more years and two more injury's for a doctor to order xryas and see the damaged that had been done, had surgery but was never the same. Long runs were difficult and I was often asked by members of my leadership if I just wanted to quit and they would make sure I got discharged. I spent 4 years with a Sgt major wanting to kick me out for being overweight and my higher than squadron average PT score.
For me Respect was very hard to come by because while I was very respected by pilots and other maint personal for my quality of work and ability to do my job, I was a bad soldier and received little to no respect from some of my immediate leadership chain.
It all worked out for me, but that potential career soldier got out and went to college like me. Only difference is he is going back in as an officer, he receives his commission this summer.
Good leaders can motivate soldiers to be their best, while bad ones can make good soldiers go bad. I had leaders who it was a honor and pleasure to work for, who I would strive to make look as good as I could. Late in my career I had some of those guys that I had wished I had earlier, maybe I would have ended up staying in.
At 3 seoerate time in my career I fractured my ankle, after the first time I went from a pt score of 280 down to a 230-250 because running became very difficult for me. At the time of the first injury it was thought I had a bad sprain, it took 3 more years and two more injury's for a doctor to order xryas and see the damaged that had been done, had surgery but was never the same. Long runs were difficult and I was often asked by members of my leadership if I just wanted to quit and they would make sure I got discharged. I spent 4 years with a Sgt major wanting to kick me out for being overweight and my higher than squadron average PT score.
For me Respect was very hard to come by because while I was very respected by pilots and other maint personal for my quality of work and ability to do my job, I was a bad soldier and received little to no respect from some of my immediate leadership chain.
It all worked out for me, but that potential career soldier got out and went to college like me. Only difference is he is going back in as an officer, he receives his commission this summer.
Good leaders can motivate soldiers to be their best, while bad ones can make good soldiers go bad. I had leaders who it was a honor and pleasure to work for, who I would strive to make look as good as I could. Late in my career I had some of those guys that I had wished I had earlier, maybe I would have ended up staying in.
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MSG (Join to see)
SPC Ryan Burger, there are leaders and then there are dictators. I was admonished recently to remove a quote at the bottom of my signature block that read: "There's a stark difference between a leader and a dictator." I was asked, "Master Sergeant, why would you type that in your signature block?" My response was, "Sir, because it's true!" I've seen outstanding Soldiers go from a hero to a zero because of poor leaders. For those who may read this and think it is about profanity, notice that it isn't. With rank comes more responsibility and pay but somehow some leaders believe that rank comes with the ability to abuse junior enlisted Soldiers. Well, if I see it, I'm going to say something about it. Soldiers don't care how much you know until they know how much you care. Some leaders forget that they were once a junior ranking Soldier.
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PO3 Aaron Hassay
What do you think of this quote I found NAVY MEDICAL PSYCH MANUAL 1953
Bureau of Medicins and Surgery
Department off the Navy
PSYCHIATRIC UNIT
OPERATIONAL
PROCEDURES
(Revised 1954)
"It is beyond the power of the medical or psychiatric profession to select or to
prepare personnel which will be psychiatrically immune to the hazards of poor leadership
or poor morale."
Bureau of Medicins and Surgery
Department off the Navy
PSYCHIATRIC UNIT
OPERATIONAL
PROCEDURES
(Revised 1954)
"It is beyond the power of the medical or psychiatric profession to select or to
prepare personnel which will be psychiatrically immune to the hazards of poor leadership
or poor morale."
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MSG (Join to see)
SPC Ryan Burger, I've observed it first hand where good Soldiers depart because of bad leadership.
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Amen! Respect is universal. There is a big difference between challenging a soldier to meet the standard and being a tyrant.
If soldiers don't want to perform, just chapter them. There is no need to go full metal jacket. The regulations are there to get rid of problem soldiers. We're just not using them correctly.
Many leaders need to understand the difference between fear and respect. Respect is something you earn. Fear is something you attempt to take without permission. Are you an honest broker or a thief?
If your soldiers will not follow you unless you make them afraid or threaten them, then it is YOU and your poor leadership that is the problem, or they simply cannot adapt and need to be separated.
This does NOT mean that you do not challege them. In fact I think many new soldiers are not challenged enough. We are robbing them of a sense of accomplishment after hard work and struggle if we do not challenge them. They deserve that feeling of self worth through validation. It often becomes intoxicating, which leads to habitual good performance and progress. They are not numbers, bodies, or pax. They are men and women!
This also does not mean that you cannot be direct with them. They need to know the truth. I cannot stand leaders that lie becuase they are hiding something or they think they can minipulate soldiers. That is NOT leadership. That is a lack of integrity! There is not reason to get in their face in a threatening manner that would otherwise earn you a punch in the mouth on the street. Sit down with the soldier and tell them how they are messing up, how to improve, and support them throughout that process. You will earn a lifetime of respect. I promise you!
Remember, you might meet one of these soldiers again in the future. Maybe on a battlefield where you need to count on them. Will they be there for you if they hate your guts? Will they go the extra mile for you?
Nowhere in any regulation is tyranny supported. Playing games with interpretation and relying on "tradition" is a cop out. If we are ready to throw regulations in their face when they do something wrong, then why do so many leaders kick moral values and regulation to the curb to take a leadership shortcut to employ fear and intimidation?
NCO's, I leave your with one line. "ALL SOLDIERS ARE ENTITLED TO OUTSTANDING LEADERSHIP".
Entitled means they deserve it regardless of your opinion. It's not optional. We need to start thinking of that line as a punitive regulation.
If soldiers don't want to perform, just chapter them. There is no need to go full metal jacket. The regulations are there to get rid of problem soldiers. We're just not using them correctly.
Many leaders need to understand the difference between fear and respect. Respect is something you earn. Fear is something you attempt to take without permission. Are you an honest broker or a thief?
If your soldiers will not follow you unless you make them afraid or threaten them, then it is YOU and your poor leadership that is the problem, or they simply cannot adapt and need to be separated.
This does NOT mean that you do not challege them. In fact I think many new soldiers are not challenged enough. We are robbing them of a sense of accomplishment after hard work and struggle if we do not challenge them. They deserve that feeling of self worth through validation. It often becomes intoxicating, which leads to habitual good performance and progress. They are not numbers, bodies, or pax. They are men and women!
This also does not mean that you cannot be direct with them. They need to know the truth. I cannot stand leaders that lie becuase they are hiding something or they think they can minipulate soldiers. That is NOT leadership. That is a lack of integrity! There is not reason to get in their face in a threatening manner that would otherwise earn you a punch in the mouth on the street. Sit down with the soldier and tell them how they are messing up, how to improve, and support them throughout that process. You will earn a lifetime of respect. I promise you!
Remember, you might meet one of these soldiers again in the future. Maybe on a battlefield where you need to count on them. Will they be there for you if they hate your guts? Will they go the extra mile for you?
Nowhere in any regulation is tyranny supported. Playing games with interpretation and relying on "tradition" is a cop out. If we are ready to throw regulations in their face when they do something wrong, then why do so many leaders kick moral values and regulation to the curb to take a leadership shortcut to employ fear and intimidation?
NCO's, I leave your with one line. "ALL SOLDIERS ARE ENTITLED TO OUTSTANDING LEADERSHIP".
Entitled means they deserve it regardless of your opinion. It's not optional. We need to start thinking of that line as a punitive regulation.
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Wow, I am shocked that someone voted down this post, twice. At what point does becoming a soldier mean that you have to endure profanity, at what point does it mean to be a soldier that you have to use profanity at a subordinate. Did we lose our ability to communicate. I just don't get it. Don't get me wrong, I swear, I use to swear a lot, but I learned not to do it around those that found it objectionable, just like I learned not to smoke around those who found that objectionable. I am all for treating those the way I would like to be treated.
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MSG (Join to see)
1SG David Niles, there will be those who vote down a post just to vote it down. It does not and will not bother me at all. You said it best when you mentioned that it's about communication. I'm not against profanity. However, some feel that they have to use profanity to communicate. I just so happen to disagree.
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If the soldier has a preference to not hear swear words and has made this preference known, then, out of respect, I would try to watch my language around them. With that said however, if someone can't handle some profanity in the military, then Lord help them when the fit hits the shan...
Also, it has been posited that people who swear a lot tend to me more honest and loyal...
http://www.psychologicalscience.org/index.php/publications/observer/2012/may-june-12/the-science-of-swearing.html
Also, it has been posited that people who swear a lot tend to me more honest and loyal...
http://www.psychologicalscience.org/index.php/publications/observer/2012/may-june-12/the-science-of-swearing.html
The Science of Swearing - Association for Psychological Science
Why would a psychological scientist study swearing? Expertise in such an area has different practical significance inside and outside the community of psychological science. Outside the scientific community,
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In a word: Professionalism.
I slightly cringe when I hear individuals tout it is a softer or new Army. I believe it is an advanced Army and we have proven the ability to accomplish the same tasks with "less." That includes motivating and developing young Soldiers.
Everyone deserves to be treated with dignity and respect. If one needs to curse, constantly scream, or belittle their subordinates in order to garner results, then it is highly possible that the issue lies within the leader, not the Soldiers.
As a platoon sergeant, I was rightfully chewed out by my First Sergeant from time to time. I was not perfect, but I strived to be better. I never took it personally simply because my First Sergeant did not take my errors personally.
Nowadays, if a Soldier or leader habitually fails to perform, I never feel the need to exude an overzealous attitude, raw anger, or disrespect. It is just as effective to start the process to help that Soldier exit the Army. I know some individuals will retort that different units or branches have a different mindset or climate. I get that. I do. If someone does something that threatens safety, sterns words alone will not cut it. But, I truly believe that professionalism is not a grey area.
I slightly cringe when I hear individuals tout it is a softer or new Army. I believe it is an advanced Army and we have proven the ability to accomplish the same tasks with "less." That includes motivating and developing young Soldiers.
Everyone deserves to be treated with dignity and respect. If one needs to curse, constantly scream, or belittle their subordinates in order to garner results, then it is highly possible that the issue lies within the leader, not the Soldiers.
As a platoon sergeant, I was rightfully chewed out by my First Sergeant from time to time. I was not perfect, but I strived to be better. I never took it personally simply because my First Sergeant did not take my errors personally.
Nowadays, if a Soldier or leader habitually fails to perform, I never feel the need to exude an overzealous attitude, raw anger, or disrespect. It is just as effective to start the process to help that Soldier exit the Army. I know some individuals will retort that different units or branches have a different mindset or climate. I get that. I do. If someone does something that threatens safety, sterns words alone will not cut it. But, I truly believe that professionalism is not a grey area.
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