Posted on Jul 19, 2018
Should We Be Upset At Those Who “Dodged The Draft”?
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I’ve seen a number of posts elsewhere provocatively calling President Trump a “draft dodger” for utilizing three educational deferments and one medical exclusion during Vietnam. I know this can be a sensitive issue for many of us who have served. Many of my military friends seem to want to pile on, and comment with disdain over his actions, and this issue. Some of this is just politics, for others it’s more personal.
I’d like to present a position here that may be unpopular with some. As a freedom loving American who voluntarily served in the US Army and Michigan National Guard for 22 years, including a tour in Iraq (2004-2005), I am thankful that I’ve never had to contend with an active draft. Most of us here have served in the military. Most of us served voluntarily; some were forced to “serve”. I’ve heard some who were conscripted say they are thankful they ended up in the military, or that they were thinking about volunteering anyway. I’ve also heard some say it was the worst thing that’s ever happened to them. There are still others who can’t comment because they didn’t make it back alive.
Most of us who joined the military will tell you they served to protect the freedom that is America, and we DO enjoy a great many freedoms that people in other countries do not. Now for the controversy. Can we include a draft as one of those freedoms? I contend we cannot. I’ve heard arguments for the utility, and necessity of a draft to fight our wars. But what is a draft when we REALLY take time to consider its nature. I’d like to place two definitions below to set the premise that guides my thinking on this issue. (I always use Merriam Webster for consistency’s sake.)
Servitude: “a condition in which one lacks liberty especially to determine one's course of action or way of life.”
Slavery: “a person held in servitude as the chattel of another
: one that is completely subservient to a dominating influence“
Given these two definitions, it’s hard to argue that a draft doesn’t, at best fit the first definition, and at worst the second. When confronted with being drafted, we are given a “choice” either go to war, put your life in danger and do what you’re told, or go to jail. It’s a false choice, because either way you lose the choice to determine your life’s course of action, or you become a slave to the prison system. When I’ve made this argument, the replies, and questions seem to indicate that it’s ok to draft people for a host of reasons, and I have a host of reasons in disagreement.
“It’s a price we have to pay to live in a free country.”
Are we really free if our government can place us into servitude, or slavery without due process?
“Other countries do it.”
We’re not other countries. We’re America, and we abolished servitude, and slavery over 150 years ago. Why would we want to resurrect slavery to fight wars?
“How can we count on volunteers to enlist in great enough numbers to fight our wars?”
How about we offer commensurate pay and benefits that will draw enough citizens to volunteer? If that doesn’t work, perhaps our government should re-think the necessity of that particular engagement.
“What if we’re invaded or we’re needed to fight a great injustice somewhere else?”
If we’re invaded, one suspects there’ll be no shortage of volunteers, civilian, or military. If the cause is just, and the danger real, America has never had a shortage of volunteers.
“Don’t you find it dishonest to use deferrals, or medical exemptions to avoid the draft when others didn’t do so?”
Those deferrals, and exemptions were legal, weren’t they? Would you call taking your mortgage interest deduction, or other legal deductions to lower your tax liability as dishonest?
All of these questions, and answers, are ancillary though, because these questions ALL avoid, bypass, or totally ignore the basic premise that a draft is based upon involuntary servitude at best, and slavery at worst. So, when someone gets all up in arms about President Trump, or anybody else “dodging the draft” by taking legal deferrals, I say, “I don’t blame them”. I tell them I didn’t blame President Clinton for avoiding the draft, and I don’t blame President Trump either. My support of President Clinton in this regard back in the 1990’s certainly caused some consternation among my Republican friends. It’s the price one pays for being philosophically honest, and consistent. Some have asked, about those who fled the country to Canada to avoid the draft, while others went along with it and were deployed to Vietnam. My answer is that I didn’t blame black slaves from fleeing slavery to Canada in the 19th century nor do I blame anybody else for fleeing to Canada to escape our slavery of the Vietnam era.
I understand that the military isn’t for everybody, and we don’t want just anybody fighting next to us. I want people fighting next to me who volunteered. Someone who has that special love of country, of service, and of unit that promotes an effective force.
In summary, I start from the basic premise that a draft is involuntary servitude/slavery, and therefore I can’t blame anybody for avoiding such bonds, either within the system of deferments, and exemptions, or outside the system by fleeing the country. America is a great country because we did away with things like slavery and spearheaded the concept of economic and individual liberty. These concepts led to the greatest worldwide advancements of production, technology and efficiency ever known previous to the founding of our great nation.
I’m sincerely interested in your thoughts, comments, or questions on this issue.
I’d like to present a position here that may be unpopular with some. As a freedom loving American who voluntarily served in the US Army and Michigan National Guard for 22 years, including a tour in Iraq (2004-2005), I am thankful that I’ve never had to contend with an active draft. Most of us here have served in the military. Most of us served voluntarily; some were forced to “serve”. I’ve heard some who were conscripted say they are thankful they ended up in the military, or that they were thinking about volunteering anyway. I’ve also heard some say it was the worst thing that’s ever happened to them. There are still others who can’t comment because they didn’t make it back alive.
Most of us who joined the military will tell you they served to protect the freedom that is America, and we DO enjoy a great many freedoms that people in other countries do not. Now for the controversy. Can we include a draft as one of those freedoms? I contend we cannot. I’ve heard arguments for the utility, and necessity of a draft to fight our wars. But what is a draft when we REALLY take time to consider its nature. I’d like to place two definitions below to set the premise that guides my thinking on this issue. (I always use Merriam Webster for consistency’s sake.)
Servitude: “a condition in which one lacks liberty especially to determine one's course of action or way of life.”
Slavery: “a person held in servitude as the chattel of another
: one that is completely subservient to a dominating influence“
Given these two definitions, it’s hard to argue that a draft doesn’t, at best fit the first definition, and at worst the second. When confronted with being drafted, we are given a “choice” either go to war, put your life in danger and do what you’re told, or go to jail. It’s a false choice, because either way you lose the choice to determine your life’s course of action, or you become a slave to the prison system. When I’ve made this argument, the replies, and questions seem to indicate that it’s ok to draft people for a host of reasons, and I have a host of reasons in disagreement.
“It’s a price we have to pay to live in a free country.”
Are we really free if our government can place us into servitude, or slavery without due process?
“Other countries do it.”
We’re not other countries. We’re America, and we abolished servitude, and slavery over 150 years ago. Why would we want to resurrect slavery to fight wars?
“How can we count on volunteers to enlist in great enough numbers to fight our wars?”
How about we offer commensurate pay and benefits that will draw enough citizens to volunteer? If that doesn’t work, perhaps our government should re-think the necessity of that particular engagement.
“What if we’re invaded or we’re needed to fight a great injustice somewhere else?”
If we’re invaded, one suspects there’ll be no shortage of volunteers, civilian, or military. If the cause is just, and the danger real, America has never had a shortage of volunteers.
“Don’t you find it dishonest to use deferrals, or medical exemptions to avoid the draft when others didn’t do so?”
Those deferrals, and exemptions were legal, weren’t they? Would you call taking your mortgage interest deduction, or other legal deductions to lower your tax liability as dishonest?
All of these questions, and answers, are ancillary though, because these questions ALL avoid, bypass, or totally ignore the basic premise that a draft is based upon involuntary servitude at best, and slavery at worst. So, when someone gets all up in arms about President Trump, or anybody else “dodging the draft” by taking legal deferrals, I say, “I don’t blame them”. I tell them I didn’t blame President Clinton for avoiding the draft, and I don’t blame President Trump either. My support of President Clinton in this regard back in the 1990’s certainly caused some consternation among my Republican friends. It’s the price one pays for being philosophically honest, and consistent. Some have asked, about those who fled the country to Canada to avoid the draft, while others went along with it and were deployed to Vietnam. My answer is that I didn’t blame black slaves from fleeing slavery to Canada in the 19th century nor do I blame anybody else for fleeing to Canada to escape our slavery of the Vietnam era.
I understand that the military isn’t for everybody, and we don’t want just anybody fighting next to us. I want people fighting next to me who volunteered. Someone who has that special love of country, of service, and of unit that promotes an effective force.
In summary, I start from the basic premise that a draft is involuntary servitude/slavery, and therefore I can’t blame anybody for avoiding such bonds, either within the system of deferments, and exemptions, or outside the system by fleeing the country. America is a great country because we did away with things like slavery and spearheaded the concept of economic and individual liberty. These concepts led to the greatest worldwide advancements of production, technology and efficiency ever known previous to the founding of our great nation.
I’m sincerely interested in your thoughts, comments, or questions on this issue.
Vietnam War
Vietnam
Donald Trump
Military service
Service
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 705
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I'm not upset by it.
The draft is indentured servitude. It is immoral and incompatible with a free Society.
The draft is indentured servitude. It is immoral and incompatible with a free Society.
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LTC (Join to see)
PO2 Rev. Frederick C. Mullis, AFI, CFM
So these vets who didn't mind being drafted would not have joined of their own free will had the US been more threatened or if other incentives would have been offered?
I argue that they would have.
So these vets who didn't mind being drafted would not have joined of their own free will had the US been more threatened or if other incentives would have been offered?
I argue that they would have.
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SGT (Join to see)
LTC (Join to see) MSgt David Hoffman this has been been one of the more enjoyable threads. Allow me to chime in.
Mr. Hoffman: On an individual level, no, I don’t think Eisenhower thought of men’s lives as cheap. However, as a good Commander, he absolutely viewed them as expendable and replaceable. He had to, or else he would have never been able to knowingly order them to do things like storm the beaches at Normandy.
As for how to win WWII with no draftees? The war would have looked quite different, but ultimately, an Allied force with the USSR in the primary role in Europe still wins in Europe. When the Germans didn’t pull out a big win in 1941 against the Soviets, they were ultimately doomed to lose. Germany could have been defeated with no US draftees or volunteers.
Now, it would have taken them longer, probably at least 1949, 1950. Post-war Europe would have been a total nightmare of almost complete Soviet influence.
That leaves the Pacific theater. Every volunteer goes there. The war in the Pacific goes a little differently with an “all hands on deck” approach. Additionally, the Soviets would have had their hands full in Europe. post-war east Asia looks quite a bit less Red.
Simply, the world looks a bit different. But WWII can certainly be won without US draftees. It might take a little longer in some areas. Shorter in others. We might not like the long term results compared to what we actually got. But for sure, it could have, and very likely would have happened.
This is well understood by the War College. However let me pose you a question. The three major Allied forces were US, UK and USSR. It’s pretty well accepted that a UK/USSR force would have eventually won in Europe. How could a US/UK only force have prevailed? THAT is a question the War College would love to have answered.
Oh, and why didn’t Lincoln set out to develop bullet proof armor? Because it was the mid 19th century. Soldiers were eating hardtack, salted butter chips and marmalade. And walking everywhere. They got things like gangrene and scurvy. Shot in the ankle? Well of course, a preemptive, above the knee amputation, just to be safe.
They didn’t exactly have space age polymers, cross-woven carbon fiber reinforced Kevlar and stuff. Having each man carry a 1000lb cast iron bell wasn’t feasible, either. What I’m saying is, the technology just wasn’t there. I should turn that into a war college paper.
Best of luck.
Mr. Hoffman: On an individual level, no, I don’t think Eisenhower thought of men’s lives as cheap. However, as a good Commander, he absolutely viewed them as expendable and replaceable. He had to, or else he would have never been able to knowingly order them to do things like storm the beaches at Normandy.
As for how to win WWII with no draftees? The war would have looked quite different, but ultimately, an Allied force with the USSR in the primary role in Europe still wins in Europe. When the Germans didn’t pull out a big win in 1941 against the Soviets, they were ultimately doomed to lose. Germany could have been defeated with no US draftees or volunteers.
Now, it would have taken them longer, probably at least 1949, 1950. Post-war Europe would have been a total nightmare of almost complete Soviet influence.
That leaves the Pacific theater. Every volunteer goes there. The war in the Pacific goes a little differently with an “all hands on deck” approach. Additionally, the Soviets would have had their hands full in Europe. post-war east Asia looks quite a bit less Red.
Simply, the world looks a bit different. But WWII can certainly be won without US draftees. It might take a little longer in some areas. Shorter in others. We might not like the long term results compared to what we actually got. But for sure, it could have, and very likely would have happened.
This is well understood by the War College. However let me pose you a question. The three major Allied forces were US, UK and USSR. It’s pretty well accepted that a UK/USSR force would have eventually won in Europe. How could a US/UK only force have prevailed? THAT is a question the War College would love to have answered.
Oh, and why didn’t Lincoln set out to develop bullet proof armor? Because it was the mid 19th century. Soldiers were eating hardtack, salted butter chips and marmalade. And walking everywhere. They got things like gangrene and scurvy. Shot in the ankle? Well of course, a preemptive, above the knee amputation, just to be safe.
They didn’t exactly have space age polymers, cross-woven carbon fiber reinforced Kevlar and stuff. Having each man carry a 1000lb cast iron bell wasn’t feasible, either. What I’m saying is, the technology just wasn’t there. I should turn that into a war college paper.
Best of luck.
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LTC (Join to see)
Until the civil war body armor bit you had a very well thought out post.
I argue that everything would have ended up about the same in about the same timeline except that in lieu of drafting millions of people into service we increased incentives to join and replaced many of the functions with contractors or other government support agencies.
Millions of the uniformed military in WW2 didn't leave the US and were in units and a functions that are not uniformed today. If those folks were not drafted but voluntarily it would make up most of the difference.
I argue that everything would have ended up about the same in about the same timeline except that in lieu of drafting millions of people into service we increased incentives to join and replaced many of the functions with contractors or other government support agencies.
Millions of the uniformed military in WW2 didn't leave the US and were in units and a functions that are not uniformed today. If those folks were not drafted but voluntarily it would make up most of the difference.
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SGT (Join to see)
LTC (Join to see) - while I admit the civil war bullet proof part may have had a twinge or snark to it, I’d argue it was no less well thought out, and definitely not less true. But that’s neither here nor there.
Back to WW2. The United States had two important roles in Europe. Lend-Lease, and opening western fronts. Lend-Lease helped save the UK, and it greatly helped all allies that received benefits. (For the sake of this discussion, the US could still have provided supplies to the Allies)
Torch and Overlord took a great amount of burden off of what would have been a primarily Soviet war effort. They forced Germany to fight on multiple fronts.
By all means, important. But vital? No. The USSR still wins a Soviet/German conflict. Just takes longer, and it’s a lot messier, and the end result isn’t quite what we’d like to see.
Back to WW2. The United States had two important roles in Europe. Lend-Lease, and opening western fronts. Lend-Lease helped save the UK, and it greatly helped all allies that received benefits. (For the sake of this discussion, the US could still have provided supplies to the Allies)
Torch and Overlord took a great amount of burden off of what would have been a primarily Soviet war effort. They forced Germany to fight on multiple fronts.
By all means, important. But vital? No. The USSR still wins a Soviet/German conflict. Just takes longer, and it’s a lot messier, and the end result isn’t quite what we’d like to see.
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I believe the key to the message is in one line, "I understand that the military isn’t for everybody, and we don’t want just anybody fighting next to us." My brother served in the Army during Korea. My Uncle Pat was a radio man for Gen Patton. I drove for B. General Jimmy Stewart during his time in Panama. Not everyone can serve. I've enjoyed it.
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For those who chose to head North of the border or whatever they did to dodge the draft, those individuals have to live with that.
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SSG Gerhard S.
Perhaps they believed living with dodging involuntary servitude was preferable to dieing for a cause that was ultimately abandoned after great expense, and loss because of political concerns.
Respectful regards.
Respectful regards.
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A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney
Although he was the right age, Biden never served because he received a number of deferrals from the draft during his time in college. He first received deferrals while an undergraduate at the University of Delaware, and later during his time in law school at Syracuse University. Biden eventually received a medical exam in 1968, after which he received a "1-Y" classification.
That classification meant that Biden could not be drafted unless there was a national emergency. In 2008, when Biden was seeking the presidency in the Democratic primary, he released his selective service record to the press. At the time, his records said that he was disqualified from service because of asthma that he suffered from as a teenager.
~
Former President Trump also received numerous draft deferments.
Although Trump is four years younger than Biden, he is also part of the generation that might have been drafted to fight in Vietnam. Like Biden, he received four deferments from the draft while he was an undergraduate at the University of Pennsylvania. Trump also went through a medical exam in 1968 and was also given the "1-Y" classification following the exam because of bone spurs in his heels. ~~ The Good Ole "Bone Spur" Defense:
~~~
The daughters of a Queens foot doctor say their late father diagnosed President Donald Trump with bone spurs to help him avoid the Vietnam War draft as a “favor” to his father Fred Trump, according to a new report Wednesday.
~~
Dr. Larry Braunstein, a podiatrist who died in 2007, often told the story of providing Donald Trump with the diagnosis of bone spurs in his heels so he could be exempt from military service, his two daughters – Dr. Elysa Braunstein and Sharon Kessel – told the New York Times.
That classification meant that Biden could not be drafted unless there was a national emergency. In 2008, when Biden was seeking the presidency in the Democratic primary, he released his selective service record to the press. At the time, his records said that he was disqualified from service because of asthma that he suffered from as a teenager.
~
Former President Trump also received numerous draft deferments.
Although Trump is four years younger than Biden, he is also part of the generation that might have been drafted to fight in Vietnam. Like Biden, he received four deferments from the draft while he was an undergraduate at the University of Pennsylvania. Trump also went through a medical exam in 1968 and was also given the "1-Y" classification following the exam because of bone spurs in his heels. ~~ The Good Ole "Bone Spur" Defense:
~~~
The daughters of a Queens foot doctor say their late father diagnosed President Donald Trump with bone spurs to help him avoid the Vietnam War draft as a “favor” to his father Fred Trump, according to a new report Wednesday.
~~
Dr. Larry Braunstein, a podiatrist who died in 2007, often told the story of providing Donald Trump with the diagnosis of bone spurs in his heels so he could be exempt from military service, his two daughters – Dr. Elysa Braunstein and Sharon Kessel – told the New York Times.
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SSG Gerhard S.
A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney I'll be consistent here, and repeat what I wrote in the original article. I don't blame anyone for avoiding involuntary servitude/slavery, particularly given our history of throwing away the lives, and futures of common people for causes that our politicians later abandon because of political expediency, a lack of defined objectives, and no follow through. Wishing you the best.
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SSG Gerhard S.
As I recall, Pres Bush actually did serve in the Air National guard, but that's beside the point of the article.
I'll say again, I don't blame anybody for doing what they can to avoid involuntary servitude, or other forms of slavery.
Regards
I'll say again, I don't blame anybody for doing what they can to avoid involuntary servitude, or other forms of slavery.
Regards
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I'll take exception with your comparison of slavery with conscription where you use the phrase "without due process." In each case where the US has imposed a draft, Civil War, WW1,WW2, Korea, Cold War, and Viet Nam the law has been passed by Congress, signed by the President, and when challenged in the courts, upheld as Constitutional. All the process due and more.
Historically, conscription has only been imposed when the number of volunteers were insufficient to fight wars deemed in the national interest by the elected representatives of the people. The Civil War draft law was probably the worst in application with a provision that people could hire substitues and large bounties given for enlisting.
As someone who lived through the Viet Nam draft and had educational deferments and joined ROTC and served as a combat infantryman in Viet Nam I can say that depending on who you were and how much money you had controlled how easy or difficult it was to get a deferment, particularly medical deferments That seems to be the case with Donald Trump.
Just to tell a war story, I had a roommate who was a pacifist. While seving as an Infantry Platoon Leader in Viet Nam I wrote a letter in his support to the local draft board. His was the first deferment granted by that draft board for pacifism for someone who was not affiliated with certain church groups such as Quakers.
Historically, conscription has only been imposed when the number of volunteers were insufficient to fight wars deemed in the national interest by the elected representatives of the people. The Civil War draft law was probably the worst in application with a provision that people could hire substitues and large bounties given for enlisting.
As someone who lived through the Viet Nam draft and had educational deferments and joined ROTC and served as a combat infantryman in Viet Nam I can say that depending on who you were and how much money you had controlled how easy or difficult it was to get a deferment, particularly medical deferments That seems to be the case with Donald Trump.
Just to tell a war story, I had a roommate who was a pacifist. While seving as an Infantry Platoon Leader in Viet Nam I wrote a letter in his support to the local draft board. His was the first deferment granted by that draft board for pacifism for someone who was not affiliated with certain church groups such as Quakers.
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I may be 4 years late on this topic, my father was there before me and I volunteered and we both hate Jane Fonda. Fear is instinctual and serves our species to survive. We all handle it differently, and I imagine that guilt of being a coward is a heavy cross to bear. I don’t care if you went to Canada, or hid out in Mexico because we haven’t learned any of the lessons that were required to stop future battles.
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I enlisted, that is what I wanted to do. I was brought up believing no one owed me freedom happiness, or riches unless you were willing to work for it. The draft was there to fill a void in the military, not enough enlisted. You want your freedom, happiness and riches, you had better be willing to fight for them. Draft dodgers are leeches. They want all the benefits but want others to to give them to them. I know too many, dodgers, who still after 50 years still live off others and have never worked for America only them selves. Leeches.
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SSG Gerhard S.
Thank you for sharing your opinions, and thoughts on this issue. One wonders though, why there were so few volunteers, and why there was a void in the Military. Those issues weren't the fault of 18 + year old Americans. More likely they were the fault of the real leaches in our society, namely the politically minded governing class, and their counterparts the bureaucrats.
One might even suggest that there would have been no void in our military if our Representatives, in government were consistent, and supportive in their foreign military endeavors. It's difficult to blame 18 + year old Americans for NOT wanting to sacrifice themselves, and their futures to the whimsical, and inconsistent messages, and actual declining levels of support, monetarily, tactically, and strategically, demonstrated by our governing class.
One even suspects there would be no shortages of volunteers to a cause that is properly framed, and supported with the necessary amount of money, equipment, and commitment to VICTORY, along with a level of compensation commensurate with the huge risks to life, limb, and mind, required to fight an entrenched enemy in his own lands.
Again, thank you for sharing your perspective. Respectful Regards.
One might even suggest that there would have been no void in our military if our Representatives, in government were consistent, and supportive in their foreign military endeavors. It's difficult to blame 18 + year old Americans for NOT wanting to sacrifice themselves, and their futures to the whimsical, and inconsistent messages, and actual declining levels of support, monetarily, tactically, and strategically, demonstrated by our governing class.
One even suspects there would be no shortages of volunteers to a cause that is properly framed, and supported with the necessary amount of money, equipment, and commitment to VICTORY, along with a level of compensation commensurate with the huge risks to life, limb, and mind, required to fight an entrenched enemy in his own lands.
Again, thank you for sharing your perspective. Respectful Regards.
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I enlisted in the Navy in 1965. I was honored to serve as a Corpsman with the USMC. I'm now 77 years old. The bitterness of that ancient war still lingers. Last spring, for the first time, I visited The Wall. After finding the names of three dear comrades, I broke down crying uncontrollably. More than 50 years now have past but the numbing anguish of those brutal days yet remain. Have I forgiven that wanton clique that betrayed my brothers? I have, only because I am compelled to do so by my Redeemer. But it is difficult, difficult, most difficult.
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SSG Gerhard S.
Thank you for your voluntary service, and for sharing your experiences, and perspectives.
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A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney
SSG Gerhard S. - ....
Since Your Service I Limited To The Reserves, You Haven't A Clue What These Regular Enlistees & Officers Are Even Referring To... ZERO.. Ya Don''t Know Sh*t.,. And It Shows.
Since Your Service I Limited To The Reserves, You Haven't A Clue What These Regular Enlistees & Officers Are Even Referring To... ZERO.. Ya Don''t Know Sh*t.,. And It Shows.
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My take is, if you got out of serving for what ever. Never put yourself in a position of forcing someone else to do what you didn't want to do
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A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney
Not Having Been In A Combat Zone, I'll Have To Make An Assumption.:
I'd Like To Think, When Under Fire; The SOB Would Cover Me As I'd Cover Him Because Both Of Our Lives Would Be In Jeopardy As Well As Those Around Us....
I'd Think He'd Be Much More Cooperative As He's Also Being Fired Upon.
Self Preservation Is A Pretty Strong Defense Mechanism.
I'd Like To Think, When Under Fire; The SOB Would Cover Me As I'd Cover Him Because Both Of Our Lives Would Be In Jeopardy As Well As Those Around Us....
I'd Think He'd Be Much More Cooperative As He's Also Being Fired Upon.
Self Preservation Is A Pretty Strong Defense Mechanism.
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A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney
SFC Kenneth Hunnell - .....
As You Stated, KENNETH,:
"would you really want someone covering your back that didn't want to be there in the first place"..
If I'm Not Mistaken, MILLIONS Of Our Military "Didn't Want To Be There In The First Place", But They WERE There And They DID Cover Our Each Others Back.....
THE DRAFT Did That And It Worked Out Pretty Good.
~~ We Won WORLD WARS With It..~~!!
From The Posts I've Been Reading, It Appears We Have MANY Young Men Posting In Here, Whom Never Heard Of THE DRAFT......
Evidently They're Forgetful Or Simply Didn't Know It Ever Existed......
Gentlemen: Even THIS Country Had The Draft... WEIRD, Huh?
And "NO", It's NOT UN-American...Communist Or Even A Dictatorship Either.
OMG:~~~ Where The FK Ya Been; Hiding Under A Lilly Pad In Never-Never-Land? ~~~~
As You Stated, KENNETH,:
"would you really want someone covering your back that didn't want to be there in the first place"..
If I'm Not Mistaken, MILLIONS Of Our Military "Didn't Want To Be There In The First Place", But They WERE There And They DID Cover Our Each Others Back.....
THE DRAFT Did That And It Worked Out Pretty Good.
~~ We Won WORLD WARS With It..~~!!
From The Posts I've Been Reading, It Appears We Have MANY Young Men Posting In Here, Whom Never Heard Of THE DRAFT......
Evidently They're Forgetful Or Simply Didn't Know It Ever Existed......
Gentlemen: Even THIS Country Had The Draft... WEIRD, Huh?
And "NO", It's NOT UN-American...Communist Or Even A Dictatorship Either.
OMG:~~~ Where The FK Ya Been; Hiding Under A Lilly Pad In Never-Never-Land? ~~~~
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SFC Kenneth Hunnell
A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney you are right, no one wants to go to war. The draft ended when I was 13 years old. When I enlisted in the Army, it was a all volunteer Army. It was after I got my twenty years in the towers were brought down, I could have retired, I stayed in. In 2004i went to Afghanistan and again in 2018i went to Kuwait. I knew there was always a chance of going to a foreign country to participate in a war and possibly losing ones life.
I didn't go because of country or community, I went for the other military Members that did, that simple.
After being deployed twice, I have noticed the difference in the ones that have deployed and those that stayed behind. The ones that did deploy saw what it is really all about.
Even today, I still don't want someone telling me to go somewhere and not willing or did not go themselves. I still do not go to these holiday events
I didn't go because of country or community, I went for the other military Members that did, that simple.
After being deployed twice, I have noticed the difference in the ones that have deployed and those that stayed behind. The ones that did deploy saw what it is really all about.
Even today, I still don't want someone telling me to go somewhere and not willing or did not go themselves. I still do not go to these holiday events
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A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney
SFC Kenneth Hunnell -
Now I'd Call That, In Upper Case Letters,
~~ SERVICE TO OUR COUNTRY~~
~ Thanks For Being There For Us And The World~
And I, As You, "Do Not Go To Holiday Events"
To Me, Those Are Solemn Days, To Remain At Home And Think.
Now I'd Call That, In Upper Case Letters,
~~ SERVICE TO OUR COUNTRY~~
~ Thanks For Being There For Us And The World~
And I, As You, "Do Not Go To Holiday Events"
To Me, Those Are Solemn Days, To Remain At Home And Think.
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I agree with most of what’s said here. My biggest issue is with those who get elected to positions of authority and send our military all over the world killing people (as long as they’re not white) when they have no idea what it’s like being a grunt. And that especially includes all the draft dodgers of my generation who not only got to run our country, but saw to it that no Vietnam Vet got elected president.
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