Rp logo flat shadow
Command Post What is this?
Posted on Jul 19, 2018
SSG Gerhard S.
250K
6.15K
2.36K
646
646
0
Avatar feed
Responses: 705
SPC James Ashmore
0
0
0
I thought about this one before starting to formulate my response. There are EXCEPTIONS to what I'm about to say, but that is what they are... EXCEPTIONS. As a member of a society that we value freedom & self-determination, I would have to say that the draft should ONLY ever be used in the MOST EXTREME situations. I do NOT claim to be a historian, but as a person who is moderately interested in history, I would not consider Vietnam to have been a case that warranted the draft. There has been considerable debate as to whether we should have even been involved in that conflict at all. The biggest cases that I can say from my perspective that warranted the draft were World War 1 & 2 where there was a definite threat to our way of life. Outside of that, I don't know if any of the conflicts since then should have had the draft. I do definitely agree that unless we have another event similar to WW1 & WW2 that presents a threat to our way of life that we should not be quick to implement a draft.
As someone who served Active Duty during Desert Storm, I have MIXED feelings about this topic. I would not want to go into a conflict/combat zone with someone that was drafted & forced to be there. With that said, I also did find it a problem with the ones that claimed "Conscientious Objector" when we were deployed. It was a CLEAR understanding when enlisting that you were agreeing to serve wherever you were ordered to go to include combat assignments. In my opinion, they should have had a dishonorable discharge for that & immediately removed from service.
That pretty much is how I feel. I see both points of view with Vietnam, but it is hard to say with 100% conviction about it.
(0)
Comment
(0)
SPC Michael Tierney
SPC Michael Tierney
>1 y
Sadly Vietnam and the Middle East were/are stupid wars with no real reasons for our being involved. But, in the sixties, the law was that the draft was in place and legal. Mixed feelings were irrelevant. Draft dodging was rampant.
As a draftee, I was underwhelmed by many RA guys. Out of shape, often out of civilian options and poorly educated. Not all but many. The best guys were the West Point officers.
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
LCDR Andy Hill
0
0
0
It would be appropriate to respect the law of the land. If the act to avoid the draft was criminal, and the President set it aside, then what was done is done.

I was too young for Vietnam, my age placed me in the short period where males no longer had to register, but I had volunteered to serve in the Military. Later, I was contacted by the Selective Service to find out why I had not registered. The man on the phone was determined to have me registered or cite me for not doing so, and seemed angry about my lack of compliance. I just informed him I was on an operational mission and preparing for a sixth fleet deployment, I think he felt bad, but I thought it was funny.
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
CW3 Raymond Mead
0
0
0
I am a Viiet Nam draftee. It isn't something that goes away over the years. We share a special kind of bond. It's almost an exclusive club. I ended my career in 1990 as a CW3 in the Regular Army. I will politely disagree with your theory of servitude. At the time I was drafted, every male child born in the United States was born with a six year obligation to serve in the military. With the exception of Basic Training, we were never treated as slaves or servants. We fulfilled a responsibility to serve our country. It was as simple as that. I never knew of anyone who felt that way, other than some of the black troops, it being 1965 and Ft Benning Georgia. At the completion of two years of service, I returned home and pretty much picked up where I had left off. Contrary to popular belief, we were not discharged and assigned to the Ready Reserve for two years and then to the Standby Reserve for the final two years of our obligation. Most of us never saw or wore a uniform again. I don't think any of us begrudged our country two years of our time. Of course we knew about draft dodgers and those who went to Canada, we were only about ninety miles from the border. We objected to them for years and made all manner of threats regarding them. The Army treated us much better than many of our countrymen did at that time. After forty seven months, just before I received my final discharge I returned to the Army. It was like returning home. The sentiment toward draft resisters and deserter and anyone else who had avoided service was fairly hostile. Then came the Carter years. I was attending the Eighth Army NCO Academy when President Carter granted amnesty to the draft resistors and pretty much welcomed them home. We saw the news of the amnesty on AFKN while we were attending a formal dinner with the cadre. We were pissed and loud, and were quickly shut down by the Commandant of the Academy. It took a long time for the subject of draft resistance stopped being a topic of discussion in the Army. Those of us who were draftees had a special emotion about the resistors. I don't know any of us who didn't lose at least on friend in Viet Nam, and those who died were very often draftees. I know that there are statistics on the percentage of draftees lost versus RA troops. But I'm old and those statistics have slipped from my memory, unlike the faces of those we lost.
On the topic of draft resistors and draft dodgers, there are two school of thought. There were guys who objected to serving based on deep moral feelings and left before they received their draft notice. Those people did nothing wrong. And to stay and work in Canada at the time one had to apply for amnesty or apply for citizenship, and many did. A draft dodger was someone who deliberately avoided service after being notified or sought exclusion based on false reasons. When I was going through the numerous examinations to be allowed to return to active duty, I was having lunch at the AFES in Cleveland with younger guys {I was 27}. They were discussing the various methods that they were using to keep from being physically suited for military service. One of the things that they said would keep them out of the military was getting braces on their teeth. They began offering me advice and I told them no thanks I had already served two years and had been to Viet Nam. To me those two were unfit without trying. Some of the guys i served with had real issues. I served with a guy in Nam who was totally blind in one eye but had been given 20/20 vision and an Infantry MOS.
I wasn't alone. There were a lot of draftees returning to duty. One had his wife outside of the AFES while he was on an AUTOVON line looking for a slot in Viet Nam before he would take the oath again. If being a draftee were really servitude there wouldn't have been thousand of us who retired.
A fun fact, the very last draftee in the Army retired only a few years ago. He was CW5 who had been inducted in 1969. He retired with over forty years of service.
I am somewhat surprised that someone with your feelings toward the draft would serve to retirement in any faction of the military. After Basic Training duty is duty. And anyone who was being drafted was given the option of taking a third year and doing whatever "job" they wanted or get any duty assignment they wanted, but not both. I knew a lot of guys who took that option and go what they wanted. For all of the negative stories you hear about the Army, they did try very hard to give people what they wanted within reason.
One of the strangest things that ever happened to me in the Army took place on New Year's Day of 1972. My wife and I were visiting a friend in Detroit and Decided to have dinner in Windsor. We crossed the Woodward Street Bridge into Canada and I handed the Customs guy our military ID cards. He looked them over and then asked me if I was applying for asylum. I explained that I had already been to Vi-et Nam and had no desire to remainin Winndsor after dinner.
There are three of us on Face Book who were drafted on the same day and took Basic training together. As fate would have it, we were assigned to the same unit and served together in Viet Nam. We are all service connected disabled. The other two are 100%, I am 50%. Agent Orange was nast shit. One of the other two is very conservative and I'm sure that he still hates the draft dodgers/resistors. It isn't a subject that we dwell on. Should we be upset about draft dodgers? I don't harbour any ill feelings toward most of them these days unless they wwant to discuss how to fight a war. We have a special distaste for that, or when someone says they love war and know more about the military than the Generals. I have mellowed over the years. Those who emigrated to Canad based on their values have my respect. Many, although not all, of the others have paid for their choices. At the end of the day, we can't teach love of country or patriotism. A few years of mandatory service to our country isn't too much to ask. Would I suppor a draft? Yeas, as long as someone like Lewis B.Hershey isn't in charge of it. And it should apply to everyone without exception. However, I don't believe that wome shoulld be drafted. I don't question their ability to serve. They are capable of doing whatever a man can do. But I'm old fashioned, I think that the choice to serve should be theirs. It should also e volutary for men, but we have already seen a few issues with the all volunteer force. George Washington said "In creating the sldier, we did not cast out the citizen.
Sorry about making a short story long.
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
CPL Joseph Elinger
0
0
0
My answer is:
It's a matter of "personal conscience," either way, theirs.
They choose the paths / building blocks / experiences / memories that will make build their future selves.
I personally couldn't evade a draft for religious / spiritual reasons.
What if another man stands in the path of the bullet that was meant for me, in G-d's plan?
Hey that's my personal spiritual belief.
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SGT Donald Croswhite
0
0
0
Another stupid question. You gonna go after a 70 year old. Move on with your life.
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SPC Ron Salsbury
0
0
0
Trump is not the only President who did not serve in Viet Nam, see below for further details:

Bill Clinton’s Draft Records from the Freedom of Information Act files show he was a Pardoned Federal Felon
* Bill Clinton registers for the draft on September 08, 1964, accepting all contractual conditions of registering for the draft. Given Selective Service Number 3 26 46 228.
* Bill Clinton classified 2-S on November 17, 1964.
* Bill Clinton reclassified 1-A on March 20, 1968.
* Bill Clinton ordered to report for induction on July 28, 1969.
* Bill Clinton dishonors order to report and is not inducted into the military.
* Bill Clinton reclassified 1-D after enlisting in the United States Army Reserves on August 07, 1969 under authority of Col. E. Holmes. Clinton signs enlistment papers and takes oath of enlistment.
* Bill Clinton fails to report to his duty station at the University of Arkansas ROTC, September 1969.
* Bill Clinton reclassified 1-A on October 30, 1969, as enlistment with Army Reserves is revoked by Colonel E. Holmes and Clinton now AWOL and subject to arrest under Public Law 90-40 (2)(a) ‘registrant who has failed to report … remain liable for induction’.
* Bill Clinton’s birth date lottery number is 311, drawn December 1, 1969, but anyone who has already been ordered to report for induction, is INELIGIBLE!
* Bill Clinton runs for Congress (1974), while a fugitive from justice under Public Law 90-40.
* Bill Clinton runs for Arkansas Attorney General (1976), while a fugitive from justice.
* Bill Clinton receives pardon on January 21, 1977 from Carter.
* Bill Clinton FIRST PARDONED FEDERAL FELON ever to serve as President.
All these facts come from Freedom of Information requests, public laws, and various books that have been published, and have not been refuted by Clinton.

So moral of the story, be careful with label's; I am proud to serve my country and have met some of the greatest people this country ever given me the privilege to proudly call my family, not my friends, "family," because they are more than this to me. I highly regard all my brothers and sisters and stand shoulder to shoulder with each and every one of them, and those whom read this comment. God bless all of you and your families for your selflessness, honor, and sacrifice's you have all made.
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SGT David Petree
0
0
0
at one time I would have said YES . now not so much . I joined the ARMY when it was NOT poplar to do so . I did this so somebody elect would not have to go, among other resins . I saw it as my turn to stand up for our country at the time, right or wrong . scared yes I was . moma was happy when my orders read Germany instead of Vietnam . 2 years after getting to Germany I came across a water that wanted to know if the draft was still on. I said no why. seems he had been in Germany so long that the German government wanted to draft him into there Army !! he ran from one, now he would run from another. at one time I would have been angry, but not now. I had 9 y 11 m active 16 y ng, it was a good life .
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
PO1 Lyndon Thomas
0
0
0
No. As a Soldier, ask yourself this question: Would you have wanted this coward covering you in combat? They did us all a favor, Trust me.
(0)
Comment
(0)
SPC Michael Tierney
SPC Michael Tierney
>1 y
What is it, 10% of the military that is Infantry? Lots of jobs in the office for guys like Trump. Hardly any ( as a percent) of enlistees see combat.
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
PO2 Michael Martin
0
0
0
SSG Gerhard Seidel, I found your post very interesting indeed. I'm a Vietnam vet and was in the middle of the people who dodged the draft. You make some excellent points. For me, a kid, I couldn't understand why these people were doing this to our country. I volunteered even tho the draft was still around. At first I was so mad at these people. How dare you not fight for your freedom and expect to be treated equal. I remember coming home from deployment, I grabbed a cab and we started to talk. One thing led to another and the guy pulled ovr and told me to get out of his cab because he hated war mongers. That was then and today my stance has eased because I'm no longer that kid. I do think for myself. I did what I thought was right at the time but so did they. As far as the draft goes. My opinion is that things have changed a lot sense Vietnam and jungle warfare. Now I think we have the technology to use artificial intelligence which keeps our men and women numbers down that engage in combat. I think we dont need the draft and not because I against it , because I dont see a need for it. Me, I'm much better than I was 50 years ago. My mood has softened on all that. Maybe it's age or maybe it's just right.

SK2 Martin
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SSgt Russell Stevens
0
0
0
There was never an active draft in my adult lifetime. That being said I have no experience on which to form an opinion as the military I was part of in some combat operations was entirely volunteer.
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small

Join nearly 2 million former and current members of the US military, just like you.

close