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Command Post What is this?
Posted on Jul 29, 2018
SGT Joseph Gunderson
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Jerry Rivas
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There is a lot to be said for skilled trades.
A plumber makes more money than the average college graduate.
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Jerry Rivas
Jerry Rivas
>1 y
SGT Joseph Gunderson - Yes indeed Sarge. Electricians, Welders, machinists all make a good living.
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SGT Mary G.
SGT Mary G.
>1 y
I have a nephew who is a butcher and another who is a plumber. They both are very young (mid 20s) and very comfortable, financially.
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1st Lt Padre Dave Poedel
1st Lt Padre Dave Poedel
>1 y
I was honored to assist students find apprenticeships in the trades during my tenure as a college counselor.
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SFC Interpreter/Translator
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>1 y
If global competition were solely about how much money an individual plumber makes, life would be significantly easier. Trade workers are only a part of the equation.
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Lt Col Robert Canfield
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I can't argue with just about everything you observed. That's why I focused on a STEM curriculum instead of ANYTHING close to liberal arts "studies". In engineering you either do the structures analysis correctly so the bridge stays up or you don't and the bridge falls down. You write the software so the application works, or it crashes. In medicine, you diagnose the problem correctly and the patient lives, or he gets sicker and possibly dies. There is not a lot of "fuzzy speak" in the STEM fields. Although I did have to take a some humanities/liberal arts courses to "round out" my education (academia speak for "we want a shot at indoctrinating you"), I found most of these type courses to be an interesting temporary diversion from the rigor of math & science -- kind of like reading the comics or doing a crossword puzzle. You are in control of your education; you select the path of study you wish to take. The most important skill any education can teach you is what I call FSO skills -- "Figure S**T Out". If you are not learning that, then change your major -- or the college you are attending.
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SGT Joseph Gunderson
SGT Joseph Gunderson
>1 y
Oh, I love my major. I enjoy writing and I enjoy teaching. I just wish that it would change, even only slightly.
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SGT Tony Clifford
SGT Tony Clifford
>1 y
That's not entirely true. I likewise got my degree in a STEM field although undoubtedly more recently than you. For the most part it was about learning the science, be that research, testing of hypotheses, or the rote memorization of formulas and mathematics. There was some politics creeping into the courses. I wrote about it in an earlier post to this, but I have had professors in my upper division geology classes opine about politics. I've had a professor quote heavily biased social science in a class a hydrology class. It was the population bomb. The book, written in the 1970s declared that the earth's carrying capacity for the human population was around 6 billion. When I informed her of that and reminded her of the fact that the population was 1.7 billion over that, she continued to lecture about over population and claimed that the earth's population cap is 10 billion. Why it was suddenly 10 billion I don't know, but after that an another incident which I mentioned elsewhere, I stopped asking questions and took note that I would have take everything she said with a huge grain of salt.
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Lt Col Robert Canfield
Lt Col Robert Canfield
>1 y
Yes, I had a few science profs who tried to opine and inject their politics into the STEM courses I took, and it does not surprise me that its much more prevalent now, than it was in the 80s and 90s. I always tried to give an honest end-of-course review. If I felt like I was not getting my monies worth, I was not bashful about saying so. I am astounded as to how much folks pay for tuition these days and the poor quality of what you get in return. Its also helpful to establish a network of students with whom you can share information about instructor quality. Campus veterans groups are a good place to start. Eventually the word gets out about which ones to avoid (if you can), and how to bullsh*t the ones you can't avoid so that you can at least pass the course with a decent grade. I was in an engineering program with over 100 other military members (veterans, bootstrap, AFIT etc) and we shared a lot of info to help each other get through the program. Its shameful that's how the colleges and universities work today, but you got to do what you got to do.
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SPC Trish Sugas-Lopez
SPC Trish Sugas-Lopez
>1 y
SGT Tony Clifford - I did, as well. Politics creeps into nursing with regularity. If you don't love unicorns and embrace the facts as they want to spew them out to you, right or wrong, you definitely know it.
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LTC Field Artillery Officer
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I have never heard of this grade inflation. I received both my BS and MBA in the 90s & never had a professor give additional points for anything, maybe 5-10 points of extra credit. But this was in a Calculus II class where there was a steep grading curve- the highest score in the class was a 60 (this was an A). Not everyone passed.
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SGT Joseph Gunderson
SGT Joseph Gunderson
>1 y
I don't doubt that at all. That being said, I received over 30 points of extra credit during a course this past summer, a 100 level course, and I didn't do anything for it. The points were given out just to make sure that people passed the course. It is sad.
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Sgt Ken Prescott
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For what it's worth...
I worked at Booz Allen Hamilton for 14 years. When I first got there, it was considered one of the best management consulting firms around. We had a program called "Performance Warm-up" where new hires would be taken to corporate HQ for a week to attend classes about the consulting business cycle and where they fit into the process.
I was *extremely* fortunate to get into the firm, as I didn't have a degree from an upper-tier school.
Starting in 2007, the head shed added a week to Performance Warm-Up, to be done BEFORE the trip to corporate. That week was devoted to a quick remedial course in Bonehead English.
Yes, the most highly-ranked management consulting firm, one of the choosiest around, one that recruited from places like Harvard, Yale, Johns Hopkins, and Georgetown . . . had to teach new hires how to write for a professional audience.
It's gotten worse. And I'm expecting these chuckleheads to pay my Social Security.
I'm going to go yell at a cloud. Who's with me?
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SGT Lisa Fields
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I hate to say you are right. Even in the medical fields. Since I did my EMT course while I was active duty I was with the struggle of time management grave yard shift at the ER nap and up for PT.
I was a terrible student never did my reading never cracked my textbooks.
Even tho emt-B was the same shit I learned in osut with a few extras tossed on. Watching civilian counterparts struggle in the hands on and internship in the hospital was painful to watch.
Our instructor was hardcore in the classroom so there was no reason I could see for the wide skill gap between myself and my civilian counterparts.
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Maj Robert Thornton
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SGT Joseph Gunderson my first 4 years out of high school, I majored in beer drinking, and chasing women, with a minor in class cutting. I swam my freshman year and played varsity lacrosse all 4 years. Yes I graduated, ended up hanging sheetrock and later driving trucks for a living. When I married, a year out of college, I could not find work where my wife found hers, ended up trying to find a job as an orderly at the hospital. Ended up doing the year long votech LPN course and working as an orderly.
To make the story short, I worked as an LPN, went back to college for a BSN, finished #2 in my class. Went into the Air Force, 2.5 years later into nurse anesthesia school, eventually earning 2 masters degrees. After a career in anesthesia I taught nursing at both the undergrad and graduate level.
At Albany State University our grading system for the nursing program was stricter than the rest of the college, and there was no rounding up of grades. These students had to sink or swim, many sunk. Not all schools have slack standards. If students were struggling, it was not unusual for the profs to make time after class and work with the students.
Yes, I was very immature when I first went to a college. I wasn't when I went back.
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Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen
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Somehow I just have to chime in and say that your degree choice may have something to do with your experiences. My grandson went from high school (honor student) straight into college for a computer engineering degree and hasn't run into the situations you describe. Yes some professors offer extra credit, especially in classes like calculus, but they certainly aren't giving away grades. Grading on a curve is nothing new in college, they were doing that in the 60s when I was in college, so if you perceive that as professors inflating grades for their professional survival you're way off base.
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SGT Joseph Gunderson
SGT Joseph Gunderson
>1 y
Except the circumstances describe do not fall in line with grading on a curve practices. If a student has scored 100% on a test there is no curve to grade on. I understand the practice and the fact that difficult courses often incorporate it into the grading, this is also part of what angered me about this as it was a 100 level comm course - not exactly a difficult class. Regardless of one's chosen program, grades should not be handed out. I don't understand why "gimme" scores are being given a pass by so many just because it doesn't fall under the STEM umbrella. Would you like your children to be taught by someone who was unable to ontain their BA without unearned extra credit points to ahuffle them through? Do you undervalue the need to understand how to read, write, or know history that much? If you answer no to these question you should be just as angry as I am and if you don't care I would like to know exactly what you believe is important enough to be taught to our young people.
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SGT Jennifer Rixe
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SGT Joseph Gunderson My hat is off to you good sir for speaking the truth of your experience. My experience with college has been somewhat different than what you have described, although when I had first started pursuing my AA degree I would say that your analysis is spot on! I think that it depends on which college you are attending and what major your are pursing that dictates the amount of effort it will be needed to put into your education. When I was going to school for my undergrad in psychology, I attended a private Catholic university. My biggest class size was 8 students.
That being said, the professor's expectations were much higher than they had been when I was getting my Associates but thankfully, I've always put my studies first and made sure that I was getting the most out of my education. Graduate school has been a totally different experience - at least from my perspective! It is demanding, challenging, and the curriculum is designed to weed out the students that are not truly into the degree plan. I have absolutely no clue how, but I have managed to pull a 3.72 GPA while working 40+ hours a week, going to class, doing the homework, working on completing my 760 hrs. of my last internship by working 20 hrs. on Saturdays and Sundays, 2 10 hr. shifts. Summer quarter is almost completed so we'll see what the GPA ends up then... my point is, don't get too discouraged with regards of how things have been so far during your education career.
You're a bright man, so I'm positive that you will do well in grad school. It's very disheartening to read about your observations with students just being passed through onto the next degree with no effort being exuded. The biggest issue that I see is that once these students graduate and start putting their feelers out for careers in their degree field, those disciplines will suffer because the pool that they will be hiring from will not have the slightest idea of what it takes to be successful without a pass off.
I wish you the best of luck in grad school my friend... you'll do great things I'm sure! :)
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Ken Kraetzer
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Thank you for your service, perhaps you can transfer to a more competitive college.
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SPC Sheila Lewis
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Sgt. Joseph Gunderson,
I read your story and it terrifies me to hear some American youth desire Communism instead of Democracy: seems necessary that Veterans who teach (I Substitute Teach as I am earning my Teaching degree) should be more in number as a ready bulwark against hate-filled and treasonous indoctrination. VETS ROCK!
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SGT Mary G.
SGT Mary G.
>1 y
I have had many experiences similar to Sgt. Joseph Gunderson. So many of the student groups choose to form alliances, and what they have in common is their communist programming that includes anti-capitalism rhetoric.
Since many are so young and right out of high school, I have to wonder if it is coming from some of the high schools, and/or home. And it may also be regional influence.
I always bring up the obvious that it is a matter of apples and oranges trying to name our system of government as an ideological system of "capitalism" so it can be unfavorably compared to an ideological system of communism; when we all know our government is a democratic republic/constitutional republic that employs democratic process, and our economy is a free enterprise economy. "Well that is not how it functions, and it is f' d up" Is usually the answer. And of course I respond that it is our job to make it function as it is supposed to, not try to superimpose a foreign ideology that is impractical and fails. The students listen better to such brief soundbyte comments than the profs who egg them on like the only value the students have is as indoctrinated bourgie rabble destined to be followers.
But as many have already mentioned, there is less focus on all that with STEM courses which I too did when returning to school after serving.
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SSG Robert Perrotto
SSG Robert Perrotto
7 y
the stem courses are under attack, utilizing Alinsky rules for radicals, they have identified STEM as a field that lacks diversity, and have utilized ad hominems, appeals to emotion, false equivalencies, identity politics, gender politics, and last but not least, economic politics. Because the easiest way to get you on the defensive, is to ask - "do you believe in equality" and then attack you from there relentlessly, you cannot even decline to answer, as a non answer is proof for them to call you racist, misogynist, whatever phobe of the week applies. they engage in arguments where no matter what you say, it leaves open an opportunity to be exploited.

Take for example third wave feminism. As a male, if I question some of the tenets, I am immediately called out for supporting the patriarchy, a misogynist, mansplaining, or a part of "rape culture", and that I need to shut up and just listen. As a woman, if you question the tenets, you are immediately charged with internalized misogyny, a gender traitor for not standing in solidarity, saying what the boys want to hear so you can get laid, and a host of other unpleasant things. They have made it so their ideology cannot be challenged, as anyone who disagrees is just a misogynist in one form or another, They redefine definitions to suit their narrative at will. grievance studies, and other post modernist academic endeavors are full of pseudo/intellectual science, buzzwords, and generalizations. A recent hoax was played on many prominent grievance studies fields, with their major publications publishing these hoax papers after a peer review process, with one paper discussing rape culture to canines in an urban dog park, and how it reflects in society, with one peer reviewer stating the author needs to tie in black womens feminism. I cannot make this shit up, https://reason.com/blog/2018/10/03/dog-rape-hoax-papers-pluckrose-lindsay - just read it for yourselves.
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