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Your buddy calls you late at night and tells you about all of the negativity going on in their life. As you listen to them describe his emotional distress, you pick up on some clues that lead you to think that this is a crisis situation. You also remember that they are a firearm owner. You want to ask about their guns because you know it’s not a safe situation under the circumstances, but you’re concerned that they will either hang up on you or, worse, that you’ll put an idea in his mind. What do you do?
People in distress can go from 0 to 60 very fast. Somewhere between 25% and 40% of individuals who attempt suicide make the final decision to act within 5 minutes of the suicide attempt. Nearly 70% make the final decision to act within the hour before their attempt. Easy access to potentially lethal methods for suicide—especially firearms—during periods of intense emotional distress increases the likelihood of bad outcomes such as suicide.
Temporarily limiting someone’s access to firearms and other possible methods for suicide during these periods can reduce the likelihood of a bad outcome, however, it’s similar to how we try to prevent our friends from getting in a car crash when they’ve been drinking. We know that the risk of a car crash increases when someone has been drinking. Because of this, we temporarily restrict access to driving—typically by taking away someone’s keys—when they’ve been drinking. When the person sobers up, we give them their keys back; we don’t prohibit them from driving ever again.
We can prevent suicides using the same mindset. When someone is under a lot of stress, having easy access to a firearm or other methods for suicide can be dangerous. During these times, we can offer to temporarily store a friend’s firearms, medications, or other possible suicide methods until things get better, just like we hold on to their keys when they’ve been drinking.
Here’s an example of how you can raise the issue:
It sounds like things haven’t been going well for you lately. I’m worried about you. Would you be willing to let me hang on to your guns/medications for a while until things get better?
If they don’t feel comfortable with this, consider asking them if they’d be willing to change how they store their firearms or medications instead:
What are your thoughts about storing your guns/medications in a safe or locking them up in another way?
Talking with a friend about locking up or temporarily limiting their access to a firearm or another possible method for suicide can be a difficult topic to discuss, but it can be a simple and effective strategy for helping them get through tough times.
[Video: https://vimeo.com/175761640]
*To learn more about the National Center of Veterans Studies programs visit: https://rly.pt/NCVS
People in distress can go from 0 to 60 very fast. Somewhere between 25% and 40% of individuals who attempt suicide make the final decision to act within 5 minutes of the suicide attempt. Nearly 70% make the final decision to act within the hour before their attempt. Easy access to potentially lethal methods for suicide—especially firearms—during periods of intense emotional distress increases the likelihood of bad outcomes such as suicide.
Temporarily limiting someone’s access to firearms and other possible methods for suicide during these periods can reduce the likelihood of a bad outcome, however, it’s similar to how we try to prevent our friends from getting in a car crash when they’ve been drinking. We know that the risk of a car crash increases when someone has been drinking. Because of this, we temporarily restrict access to driving—typically by taking away someone’s keys—when they’ve been drinking. When the person sobers up, we give them their keys back; we don’t prohibit them from driving ever again.
We can prevent suicides using the same mindset. When someone is under a lot of stress, having easy access to a firearm or other methods for suicide can be dangerous. During these times, we can offer to temporarily store a friend’s firearms, medications, or other possible suicide methods until things get better, just like we hold on to their keys when they’ve been drinking.
Here’s an example of how you can raise the issue:
It sounds like things haven’t been going well for you lately. I’m worried about you. Would you be willing to let me hang on to your guns/medications for a while until things get better?
If they don’t feel comfortable with this, consider asking them if they’d be willing to change how they store their firearms or medications instead:
What are your thoughts about storing your guns/medications in a safe or locking them up in another way?
Talking with a friend about locking up or temporarily limiting their access to a firearm or another possible method for suicide can be a difficult topic to discuss, but it can be a simple and effective strategy for helping them get through tough times.
[Video: https://vimeo.com/175761640]
*To learn more about the National Center of Veterans Studies programs visit: https://rly.pt/NCVS
University of Utah
Safety
Stress
PTSD
Edited 6 y ago
Posted 6 y ago
Responses: 38
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I read just about every post on this thread- the amount of compassion, care, and empathy is simply astounding. One theme that comes up; whether Combat Vets should talk with only other Combat Vets; I am not sure is good advice. People open up sometimes to strangers (the bartender affect), sometimes they open up to close friends and loved ones. And sometimes they open up to other Combat Vets. And many open up to either God- or to their Preacher, Priest, or Rabbi.
Depression to the level this thread talks about, is not unique to the Military. Yet Combat Vets do have a particular niche - in that doing their Duty conflicts with how they wanted their lives to be, or turn out. And sometimes, but not always, that shared understanding is the one to reach out to.
I remember being at a party when a lady opened her oven to check on what she was baking. An Iraqi Vet was standing next to her and didn't know she was going to open the oven. When she did...he literally leaped over the open oven and ran right thru a screen door into the backyard. A lot of folks laughed, and he tried to play it off. I asked him if he wanted to go for a walk.
So we did.
He told me that whenever he feels a blast of dry heat, it takes him right back to being blown up in his HummVee. "Kevin, I never use the oven at my house. And I won't even go in a Pizza Shop to pick up my Pizza...I send my girlfriend in." How many people in Civilian life would realize that a Pizza Oven, or home oven, could be a powerful trigger? He did laugh a little (always a good sign if it isn't followed with sadness). "I guess I will never retire to Arizona...it is a dry heat."
I laughed at his joke ( because it was funny, and like a lot of good Humor, there was truth to it."
I hugged him and we walked back to the house. I never told anyone what he told me, except for my Kathy. And now you folks. Anyone blown up in a HummVee probably would understand FULLY what this Soldier was going through. People like me would be helpless...except to be able to listen, and go for a walk.
Depression to the level this thread talks about, is not unique to the Military. Yet Combat Vets do have a particular niche - in that doing their Duty conflicts with how they wanted their lives to be, or turn out. And sometimes, but not always, that shared understanding is the one to reach out to.
I remember being at a party when a lady opened her oven to check on what she was baking. An Iraqi Vet was standing next to her and didn't know she was going to open the oven. When she did...he literally leaped over the open oven and ran right thru a screen door into the backyard. A lot of folks laughed, and he tried to play it off. I asked him if he wanted to go for a walk.
So we did.
He told me that whenever he feels a blast of dry heat, it takes him right back to being blown up in his HummVee. "Kevin, I never use the oven at my house. And I won't even go in a Pizza Shop to pick up my Pizza...I send my girlfriend in." How many people in Civilian life would realize that a Pizza Oven, or home oven, could be a powerful trigger? He did laugh a little (always a good sign if it isn't followed with sadness). "I guess I will never retire to Arizona...it is a dry heat."
I laughed at his joke ( because it was funny, and like a lot of good Humor, there was truth to it."
I hugged him and we walked back to the house. I never told anyone what he told me, except for my Kathy. And now you folks. Anyone blown up in a HummVee probably would understand FULLY what this Soldier was going through. People like me would be helpless...except to be able to listen, and go for a walk.
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MAJ Byron Oyler
The one thing we in the military have in common that most civilians do not is the day we get off the cattle truck, mission and team is ingrained into us and I believe that is a huge component in regards to behavioral health. Regarding opening up to combat vets, I do think I gain some credibility by having taken care of wounded in a combat zone.
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SGT Kevin Hughes
MAJ Byron Oyler - Yes, that credibility is there...and it comes in handy. One of my friends over in Nam, never saw actual combat, but during TET...he literally put every single seriously wounded person on a chopper, or truck, or plane to get further help when they were stabilized. And more than a few, well, he had to watch them as they left the Earth. And he has PTSD - he doesn't share his story. Nor does he want it shared. For many many reasons, but suffice it to say, war has as many ways to inflict its horrors as the Devil can figure out.
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TSgt AnnaBelle Bryan
No, but it is an injury prevention post (orca, medication, knife, gun, etc).
From one veterans to another hopefully this gives one guy a way to start a conversation...
For those who want to and for those who don't, that's okay too.
On a side note: I have to say thanks for the morning chuckle on the orca dioxide awareness. I had to look it up. There is no orca dioxide awareness, however I did find out that June is Orca Awareness month. Now I know (haha).
From one veterans to another hopefully this gives one guy a way to start a conversation...
For those who want to and for those who don't, that's okay too.
On a side note: I have to say thanks for the morning chuckle on the orca dioxide awareness. I had to look it up. There is no orca dioxide awareness, however I did find out that June is Orca Awareness month. Now I know (haha).
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We make the mistake of telling our brothers and sisters to reach out when they are so emotionally wounded, they consider taking their own life. As we would if they were shot and wounded in a kill zone, we have to rush to their aid when we see they are wounded and not wait for them to ask for help. I have upset a few brothers as they stated they were not in crisis. I would rather make him mad than attend his funeral.
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In my experience a combat vet will be reluctant to “ open up “ and talk about his issues with a person that has not had a similar experience meaning combat, that includes professional health care people and may be open to seek relief from a combat brother.
It is difficult for somebody without a combat background to comprehend what you feel and situations that may be triggered by a sound or smell, if you “ haven’t been there”. That is why is so important to be receptive always and very mindful of your response.
I’m sure that many of you brothers understand exactly what i’m saying.
All the best to you all on this holiday season and praying that no more brothers will become casualties after the service.
It is difficult for somebody without a combat background to comprehend what you feel and situations that may be triggered by a sound or smell, if you “ haven’t been there”. That is why is so important to be receptive always and very mindful of your response.
I’m sure that many of you brothers understand exactly what i’m saying.
All the best to you all on this holiday season and praying that no more brothers will become casualties after the service.
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MAJ Byron Oyler
I must admit there has been times with patients I have turned the right sleeve towards them with the 10th MTN patch.
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MAJ Byron Oyler
1SG (Join to see) - I have had people ask why am I wearing an infantry patch when medical and I always answer it is because the 10th wanted me to back in '06. Nobody told me to wear the 44th but the 10th certainly did.
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Just want to put out there that studies have shown asking directly about suicide is not more likely to make someone attempt suicide. We should never be afraid to ask for fear of putting the thought in their head.
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I have been on both sides of the equation.
After I gave birth in 1982 I dropped into a abyss I almost never got out of. Luckily for me as a child I had a school mate that had lost his mother to suicide. His discription of his fleelings never allowed me to convince myself my child would truely be better off with my death. The problem though got worse as that at some point before or during the post natel my immune system decided it no longer viewed my thyroid gland as part of me and decided to kill it.
It was almost two decades before they made a proper diagnosis and were able to stabalize me on medication. During that time I discovered a couple of things I pass on to people who are going through depression. First of all alcohol is as dangerous as any weapon they might have access to. I am not talking about the person being an alcoholic either. Even a small amount can dump you from a semi-stable mental outlook and into the pits. The second is that mother nature provides us a free antidepressent. It is called sunshine. You can get it in it's natural form for free or if you can get it in the form of a light box for about $25 to $30 bucks. I would say you could get it in the form of a 250 watt incandescent light bulb but I know something about electrical circuits and I don't want what I say to end up burning somebody's house down. Light is not a cure all but I know for a fact any little bit helps when you are hanging over the edge of the clift.
On the other side of the issue I have won one and I have lost one. The win was my own brother, a Vietnam era vet suffering from demons he had shared with no one for over three decades. The truth was he could have probably arrested most of the family cause we removed his guns. He is doing great now after years in treatment and none of us are interested in anyone whining about what the family did to save him, least of all him.
The loss is and was much more painful. She was a civilian co-worker long after I left the military. She was in an abusive, both physical and emotional, relationship. She was also an alcoholic. She had left him several times and several people had taken her in and tried to get her help but she always went back to him. That particular day she came to me for sympathy and told me he had brought another woman into the house and told her she could accept it or leave. I comforted her as best I could, offered to help her leave again which she turned down. She told me she planned to leave but she wasn't ready yet. I asked her several times if there was anything I could do to help her and was she sure she was going to be ok and she promised me if things got out of hand she would call on me or someone else. Instead according to those that investigated it she went home, got into an argument with him and then got drunk, put a gun in her mouth and pulled the trigger. It was difficult but realized there was nothing else I could have done. Once she had started drinking all bets were off. I am not totally against drinking but when you are significantly depressed it can be deadly. It's danger should never be overlooked in dealing with people on the edge. Given the choice between trying to take the gun or dumping the booze down the drain I would dump the booze. If they decide to harm themselves they can do it without the gun. The alcohol makes that choice much more likely.
I recognized the danger to myself early on and cut it out for years until I was diagnosed and properly medicated and even now it is rare. Anyway that is my take on things for what it is worth.
After I gave birth in 1982 I dropped into a abyss I almost never got out of. Luckily for me as a child I had a school mate that had lost his mother to suicide. His discription of his fleelings never allowed me to convince myself my child would truely be better off with my death. The problem though got worse as that at some point before or during the post natel my immune system decided it no longer viewed my thyroid gland as part of me and decided to kill it.
It was almost two decades before they made a proper diagnosis and were able to stabalize me on medication. During that time I discovered a couple of things I pass on to people who are going through depression. First of all alcohol is as dangerous as any weapon they might have access to. I am not talking about the person being an alcoholic either. Even a small amount can dump you from a semi-stable mental outlook and into the pits. The second is that mother nature provides us a free antidepressent. It is called sunshine. You can get it in it's natural form for free or if you can get it in the form of a light box for about $25 to $30 bucks. I would say you could get it in the form of a 250 watt incandescent light bulb but I know something about electrical circuits and I don't want what I say to end up burning somebody's house down. Light is not a cure all but I know for a fact any little bit helps when you are hanging over the edge of the clift.
On the other side of the issue I have won one and I have lost one. The win was my own brother, a Vietnam era vet suffering from demons he had shared with no one for over three decades. The truth was he could have probably arrested most of the family cause we removed his guns. He is doing great now after years in treatment and none of us are interested in anyone whining about what the family did to save him, least of all him.
The loss is and was much more painful. She was a civilian co-worker long after I left the military. She was in an abusive, both physical and emotional, relationship. She was also an alcoholic. She had left him several times and several people had taken her in and tried to get her help but she always went back to him. That particular day she came to me for sympathy and told me he had brought another woman into the house and told her she could accept it or leave. I comforted her as best I could, offered to help her leave again which she turned down. She told me she planned to leave but she wasn't ready yet. I asked her several times if there was anything I could do to help her and was she sure she was going to be ok and she promised me if things got out of hand she would call on me or someone else. Instead according to those that investigated it she went home, got into an argument with him and then got drunk, put a gun in her mouth and pulled the trigger. It was difficult but realized there was nothing else I could have done. Once she had started drinking all bets were off. I am not totally against drinking but when you are significantly depressed it can be deadly. It's danger should never be overlooked in dealing with people on the edge. Given the choice between trying to take the gun or dumping the booze down the drain I would dump the booze. If they decide to harm themselves they can do it without the gun. The alcohol makes that choice much more likely.
I recognized the danger to myself early on and cut it out for years until I was diagnosed and properly medicated and even now it is rare. Anyway that is my take on things for what it is worth.
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SPC Richard Zacke
SSgt Anita Heuss I hope that if I ever reach the abyss that there will be someone like you that I can count on.
Right now I'm dealing with my 16 y/o granddaughter who has started cutting herself. Everyone wants to help but I've put my foot down and told them she will be seeing a professional who knows what he or (hopefully) a women will find out what is boiling in her. I know everyone just wants to help but they could unentinually do or say the wrong thing and I just could'nt bear losing this little angle. My son died when she was 6 y/o so she still remembers alot about him and loves him to death. (maybe wrong word) Thank you for trying to help your friend and I just wanted to say that I have not drank since well over 30 years. And I agree alcohol is SATAN in a bottle!!!
Right now I'm dealing with my 16 y/o granddaughter who has started cutting herself. Everyone wants to help but I've put my foot down and told them she will be seeing a professional who knows what he or (hopefully) a women will find out what is boiling in her. I know everyone just wants to help but they could unentinually do or say the wrong thing and I just could'nt bear losing this little angle. My son died when she was 6 y/o so she still remembers alot about him and loves him to death. (maybe wrong word) Thank you for trying to help your friend and I just wanted to say that I have not drank since well over 30 years. And I agree alcohol is SATAN in a bottle!!!
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SSgt Anita Heuss
I have heard of the problem you are dealing with but have never had to deal with it close up so I will not offer any advice but love. Teens now days are dealing with massive amounts of pressure. I truly don't know how they manage it. I agree a professional is very much in order here. The very best of luck to you and her also.
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Excellent post. I had that discussion with a buddy about 8 years ago. I still have his pistol. Unfortunately he passed three years ago due to pancreatic cancer, but I think taking that pistol out of his reach prolonged his life. After he gave it to me he never asked for it back , even though the demons would return to him once in awhile. Being there for him was important.
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TSgt AnnaBelle Bryan
I am sorry your friend passed. I am glad you were there to take action and give him the strength by knowing he had a friend like you who had his back. That's all any of us can ask.
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