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Command Post What is this?
Posted on Oct 24, 2014
CPT Senior Instructor
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SGT William Howell
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I have so much disdain for this medal I can't even express what a slap in the face for all soldiers this should be. It is the only medal we issue based off rank and it disgust me. It is an turned into an elitist medal that goes against all we stand for. "Mission First, Troops Always."

Let me tell you. If we were eating as a unit and an officer or NCO were in line before the soldiers my 1SG would drop a deuce. Soldiers ALWAYS eat first! Soldiers are taken care of by those over them. We are no better than a slick sleeve. It is because of them that we win battles. That 19 year old life is no less important than any other soldier on the battlefield. My Top did that because he wanted our soldiers to know we care about them.

When you tell a guy that he can't have a medal because he isn't high enough rank you destroy everything they believed about the command structure. When he can see that it does not matter how hard you work that it is only for the elite and that the common soldier can't have it you have killed moral. When it becomes, "Mission First, Officers, E-6s, and above Second, Troops Last", we are no better than the some third world army with a dictator that makes up medals to give to himself.

It may be that the BSM is awarded to people that did deserve it, but I can tell you it has been awarded to a shitload more chair sitters and FOBits that did nothing to deserve it. For no other reason than the rank on their shoulders. Of course, I would have never got one I was not elite enough, but if I had, I would have thrown it right in the blue water. It is a medal that is against everything I stood for as an NCO and a soldier.

Don't get me started that that POS medal outranks a Purple Heart. A man sheds blood for his country and some E-6 boot licker gets a medal that takes precedence over it.

I am going to stroke out, so end of rant. Sorry!
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CPT Senior Instructor
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10 y
It is a service award to some extent. But I don't think that just because you served means you are going to get one. I deployed as a SSG and a 1LT. I still don't have one. I just hope it goes to those that deserve it.
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SGT William Howell
SGT William Howell
10 y
CPT (Join to see) Sir, I am sure you came a lot closer than any PFC did. Don't take it if you get one. It's uniform trash without a V. If more senior people refused to accept it maybe they would make it that all soldiers had the ability to earn the award.
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SSG Gene Carroll SR.
SSG Gene Carroll SR.
10 y
You are so right, Medals look good on resume, but you can't by a cup of coffee with them. 
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SGT Robert Zuniga
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My views on the medals are also jaded. When we were leaving OEF 3, we conducted numerous missions an patrols during the entire deployment. When the deployment came to an end, we were told that we could write up our soldiers for either an Arcom or below but we were only given two and the rest would have to get an AAM. Meanwhile our platoon sear grant and above all got bronze stars. It was craziness. Regardless of situations and actions. We had to just settle. I had to look one of my Joes in the eye and hand him a COA for dutifully serving his country.
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CPT Senior Instructor
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That is insane. Later on we were told that a soldier couldn't get anything less than a ARCOM for a service award in Iraq. But I have seen my fair share of the such.
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CW3 Retiree
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Chip, I was there and I can attest to it. I was one of the PFCs who received a COA for that deployment.
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CW3 Retiree
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I remember Platoon SHTs and above got BSMs, Section Chiefs and NCOs got ARCOMs, one Joe could get an AAM, everyone else got a COA. I dated the daughter of a CSM in CAG for a long time and when he found out I got a COA, he was pissed about it.
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LTC J. Lee Mudd
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During research for writing my master's thesis, I developed a relationship with a gentleman who'd been a platoon leader, company XO, and commander in the 756th Tank Battalion (later the 73rd Armor and now the 73rd Cavalry Regiment) in WW II. He referred to it as "the officer's Good Conduct Medal."
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CPT Senior Instructor
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Did he have the same disdain for it as it has today?
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LTC J. Lee Mudd
LTC J. Lee Mudd
>1 y
Not at all. Until your post, 1LT Eric Rosa, I was not aware of any disdain for the BSM. Based on the official description and criteria its award (meritorious service or heroism in a combat zone), I don't see why any disdain should have arisen.
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SrA Teleservice Representative
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On the note of disdain a few of us "Junior" types were known to say it was the medal officers or senior non coms received downrange if they didn't get caught sleeping with another servicemember
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SFC Bruce Scott
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While this subject is old, it really is incomplete w/o talking about the CIB. It was mentioned elsewhere "when I see a BSM license plate I think E-7 or above, who got it for being there". From 1941 to 2006 or 07 (I forget when the Army changed it) the CIB was awarded for simply being there. The criteria was very simple, serve 6 months or thirty days, or whatever the Army decided at that time (remember Grenada?), as an infantrymen in an infantry unit in the combat zone. Oahu, Bora-Bora, Australia were all combat zones in WWII & all infantrymen there did was work on their tans. They got the CIB. The exception was if you got killed or wounded in that first six months, so if you were awarded a PHM, you (or your loved ones) got your CIB. So many, many of those CIBs you see on senior leaders are woobies. Blanket awards (typed up upon arrival and submitted to S1 on the appropriate date). Know a 1st Cav vet of the Gulf War w/CIB? Woobie. 1st Cav saw very little combat, if any. Thousands of CIBs awarded though. The BSM / CIB combo was a rite of passage for an infantryman coming home from Korea, & Vietnam (and Soldiers were receiving the BSM / CIB for serving on the Korean DMZ until 1968!). After Vietnam the "scope of duties" principal was invoked to bring parity among the different service branches for the award. The MSM was created but strangely the criteria excluded combat tours. Maybe a "C" device should be created for the MSM for Fobbitts / UAV pilots, etc?
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SFC Intelligence Sergeant
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I received a bronze star on my last deployment to Afghanistan and was very honored to have been awarded it. The majority of the awardees were officers with the exception of a few senior nco's, another SSG, and a SGT(p). Not all of the officers got them, many LT's and CPT's got ARCOM's and I think there was some indignation about who received them. I credit my awesome CSM for fighting for the enlisted. I have been on a deployment where the only awardees were officers except the CSM, and think that the BSM has been misappropriated in some circumstances, but I think that the BSM is a great honor, especially for lower enlisted, to strive for. I was deployed for 38 months before surpassing the ARCOM.
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CPT Senior Instructor
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Congrats.
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MAJ Matthew Arnold
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This may not be news, but the subject of giving away BSMs for being there is not new. Years ago, my father, a WWII veteran, When I asked him what he did to earn his BSM, said to me, as best as I can remember, "oh, they gave those things to everyone", refering to his BSM.
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CPT Senior Instructor
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That is the truth. Every infantryman that had a CIB got one. I think they understood it to be a service medal back then. It has changed over time and the "V" device muddied it also.
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SFC Douglas Duckett
SFC Douglas Duckett
>1 y
Sir, your statement of "giving away BSMs" insinuates that the leadership does not know how to read and interpret regulatory requirements or throws their integrity out of the window when writing recommendations.
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SrA Teleservice Representative
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SFC Douglas Duckett I beleive the Maj was referring to his father saying that is what happened with the BSM in WWII which was the case at that point
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SFC Douglas Duckett
SFC Douglas Duckett
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His reference is supported by his father's comments however, he states it is not a "new" news. I am left with the impression as I stated before.
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SGM Mikel Dawson
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I took the time today to read the entire thread. I wish the SNCO of each service branch would read this thread and maybe had a discussion on this matter.
I received a BSM while in Iraq 03-04. All the 638 said was "See attached statement", which I never saw. After reading this thread I wonder how many when seeing my BSM with no "V" would hold me in distaste and think "Well there goes another one". I looked back at what I did and many times feel it was only my job. When we arrived in Kuwait, all we had for equipment was what we'd carried on the plane. Our job was the G2/G3Ops for V Corps Rear. The SSSC stuff we had was enough for three days. Not only did I have to make sure the health and welfare of my troops was taken care of, I had to make sure the TOC functioned. For about two weeks I begged, borrow, made deals, called in favors, and leaned on "knowing someone who knew someone" to get what I needed to keep things running. I could not fail. I had the CoS tell me, "SGM, the power will never go down in the TOC", we were running on generators (I also became a generator mechanic). When all my soldiers were caught up in keeping the TOC running, I ended up doing many of the details myself because there was no one else to do them, hauling trash, pulling guard duty, making sure those on duty got chow. When our vehicles and containers arrived I had to get them to Camp Virginia with the help of one other NCO. The war started and I was knee deep in poop when the CoS comes to me, "SGM Dawson, start planning to move this TOC forward." "Where to, Sir", I asked. His reply was the location wasn't settled yet, but get busy planning the move. I soon found out just how many soldiers and equipment was assigned to the Rear HQ - around 1400 or so plus containers and vehicles. So in my spare time I planned this move. You know what my best reward was? After everyone and everything was moved, no accidents, no one got killed, our trail party which I was part of arrived at Balad, the CoS came to me with a big smile, extended his hand to me and said, "GOOD JOB SGM".
I was an Infantry guy and a Combat Engineer. I really wanted to be up where the "happening was", but I was in the Rear not really knowing when one day ended and the other began. Yes I was that thing all Combat troops hate - REMF. I remember when I was in my 12B platoon how we always talked about REMFs and now I was one. You always hope you'll never be a REMF, but I was doing what I was ordered to do. Who's going to remember what I did, probably no one. Is all this stuff what "they" gave me the BSM for - who knows? I don't really know of anyone on this site who knows what I did and to tell the truth, I really don't care.
Am I'm writing this to toot my own horn - NO, but I want many of you to stop and think what people really did. I know there was a lot of medals given and in some cases I do know a couple I'll never understand why. But I ask the next you see a service member with a BSM and no "V", don't prejudge, "Oh there's another one".
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TSgt Joshua Copeland
TSgt Joshua Copeland
11 y
SGM Mikel Dawson, I posted it elsewhere, but BSM w/o V = MSM in deployed area. No shame.
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CPT Senior Instructor
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I think I might have met you. I was with F 51st IN (LRS). We were attached to V Corps at Camp Virginia. We were working along side with E 51st in (LRS). We were in that secured area in the V Corps TOC. We planned missions to go in before the War started but a COL and his staff decided to use E co instead. That was their LRS company after all. Small world. I remember also that Jessica Lynch was out of Virginia also. They had a huge convoy staged on the Northern side of the Camp.
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SGM Mikel Dawson
SGM Mikel Dawson
11 y
1LT Eric Rosa, yea we probably crossed paths. After the Jessica Lynch convoy got hit, there was a small team which got lost for a couple days. There was a big row about that.

MSgt Joshua Copeland, I understand your post and appreciate your reply. The major reason for my post was there have been so many say if no "V", it don't count. I want those to understand they don't know why, don't judge. Thanks for your post and reply.
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SFC Information Assurance Ncoic
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The Bronze Star is a joke. I've seen it be issued out to people solely based on Rank. I know a MSG who received a BSM and did nothing more than college work during the deployment while her SFC did all the work. She got the BSM, he got an MSM. His award was downgraded to an ARCOM at the Company, BN, BDE and upgraded to the MSM. During that same deployment another SFC got a BSM for building drafting plans to build pull up and dip bars. The BSM has little to do with heroism or outstanding performance, but more to do with how well liked you are. I like to call it the Bull Sh t medal now.
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CPT Senior Instructor
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There are so many things wrong with that. I understand getting a BS if you perform exceptionally while in leadership. Just because one is a MSG doesn't mean you are in leadership. I would blame their leadership for reducing the significance of the award.
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SFC Retired
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I do not "disdain" the award. I disdain the way it is awarded. A 1LT in S3 gets the BSM for answering phones and copying & pasting oporders all day gets a BSM for making it to the shower every night and never getting blood on his pretty tacticool boots from the PX while real Soldiers of all ranks are out getting dirty and actually risking our lives for each other and our country doing actual work. I don't go to award ceremonies because i don't want to see the lies and the true lack of honor in the award system. At some point you realize that it is just more money your have to spend on your uniform. A BSM for staff is the same as my NDSM or ASR. They'll get one no matter what.
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MAJ Signal Officer
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11 y
I would not paint with such a broad brush. Award criteria is very broad which means you will have peaks and valleys and deviations from the norm from one command to another. I spent 13 months as a Combat Advisor on my 3rd Deployment on an 8 man team. Our ranks ranged from MAJ down to SGT and we all earned a BSM for service and all of us earned either our CAB, CIB or CMB for the Medic. Some of us were awarded impact ARCOMs and half of us came away with V devices. We can always find example to say someone was handing out candy. In 2003 there were entire BDEs who awarded the CIB to anyone who was an 11B whether they ever in a firefight, took fire, returned fire etc. or not. What was an acceptable award in the early parts of the wars was not later and so on. We tend to see only the hear and now and do not have the benefit of past knowledge and even if we did we generally cannot see past our own experiences and situation. Over 975,000 BSMs were given out during Vietnam for service and another 160,000 for Valor. From 2001-2011 less than 5,000 BSMs for Valor have been awarded and 175,000 BSMs for service have been awarded. Vietnam saw 2.5 million Soldiers on the ground and from 2003-2011 OEF and OIF saw 1.5 Million. Now can I remember at least one example where I felt someone got a BSM that should not have? Yes but the range fan for the award is wide enough that one person will always have done more and another much less to earn it. Same can be said for about every award
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MAJ Signal Officer
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11 y
Now please also understand that I am very critical on awards whether I am approving or recommending. I place a large value on them, but I also have to be careful that I do not become too strict and never award one. I have recommended BSM and fault for them and other time I felt an ARCOM was appropriate. Rank never figured into it for me but duty and responsibility did. That's is for the BSM service award of course. Of course if you are out conducting missions, getting into fights and killing the enemy that's makes a big difference to me. But I have deployed 4 times and 1 was a Staff job deployment for me. I had an E5 serving as my NCOIC in an E8 billet and excelling at it, so I pushed for a BSM Service award for him and he got it while no other primary staff officer did.
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CPT Arch Nissel
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Regardless of the history and the reason there are so many problems with this award is the REMF commands that give them to people who have not begun to earn them. Afghanistan 2008 a CPT who was relieved of command and put in charge of library, weight room, and Green bean to finish their deployment was given a Bronze Star for the deployment. It is not the award but the lack of spine of the commanders who want everyone to get an award that has lowered the prestige it once had.
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SGT Infantryman (Airborne)
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11 y
That's the point I made in my post. The only reason those guys got ambushed was because their CO went out there with them and all he wanted was a medal. Well he got one. When they started getting hit he popped smoke for the ARA to come in, but he popped the wrong color and they unloaded on him and his right leg was blown off. So, I'm sure he got a ST or a BS, but I know he got a Purple Heart for not knowing what he was doing and putting the rescue team in jeopardy. At the reunion party's for the 5/7 th Cav, he never thanked any of them for getting him off the battle field and saving his life while they were getting their ass shot off because of him. Just goes to show...
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