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I asked a former female Marine if she had experienced an overwhelming amount of sexual harassment/assault while she served in the Corps. To my extreme surprise this was her response (paraphrased of course):
No. No, not at all. One time I was in the barracks and a guy in my unit snuck into my room and tried forcing himself on me. I started screaming and within a few seconds this whole crowd of Marines came barging into my room and carried him off. They’re my brothers, why would they let anyone hurt me?
Now THAT is honor and loyalty.
This brought tears to my eyes for two reasons.
Reason One: I was so overwhelmed and happy these Marines heard a fellow Marine in trouble and they came running to her rescue. There was no hesitation, no passive intervention and no second thoughts. That's just mind-blowing to me.
Reason Two: My mind was blown because very rarely has a male Soldier stood up for me like that. Matter of fact, I rarely hear any male Soldiers stand up for women like that.
I was raised where men watch their mouths around women, men hold open doors for ladies, and men take out the trash while women wash the dishes. I understand and learn more every day how the military is far from being the Southern paradise where knights in shining armor rescue damsels in distress. I also understand some women don’t like being treated that way. Roger, tracking.
Maybe those Marines who busted in her room didn’t care that she was a woman, they just heard one of their fellow Marines in trouble. Regardless of why, their actions and her response portrayed a very different world from what I know in the Army and that saddens me.
Is it sexist for me to expect male Soldiers to stand up for female Soldiers? Maybe so.
Is it too much to ask for Soldiers to stand up for Soldiers, regardless of gender? I don't think so.
No. No, not at all. One time I was in the barracks and a guy in my unit snuck into my room and tried forcing himself on me. I started screaming and within a few seconds this whole crowd of Marines came barging into my room and carried him off. They’re my brothers, why would they let anyone hurt me?
Now THAT is honor and loyalty.
This brought tears to my eyes for two reasons.
Reason One: I was so overwhelmed and happy these Marines heard a fellow Marine in trouble and they came running to her rescue. There was no hesitation, no passive intervention and no second thoughts. That's just mind-blowing to me.
Reason Two: My mind was blown because very rarely has a male Soldier stood up for me like that. Matter of fact, I rarely hear any male Soldiers stand up for women like that.
I was raised where men watch their mouths around women, men hold open doors for ladies, and men take out the trash while women wash the dishes. I understand and learn more every day how the military is far from being the Southern paradise where knights in shining armor rescue damsels in distress. I also understand some women don’t like being treated that way. Roger, tracking.
Maybe those Marines who busted in her room didn’t care that she was a woman, they just heard one of their fellow Marines in trouble. Regardless of why, their actions and her response portrayed a very different world from what I know in the Army and that saddens me.
Is it sexist for me to expect male Soldiers to stand up for female Soldiers? Maybe so.
Is it too much to ask for Soldiers to stand up for Soldiers, regardless of gender? I don't think so.
Sexual Harassment
Sexual Assault
Gender
Women in the Military
Command Post
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 197
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I don't think it's too much to ask at all. Soldiers should stand up for soldiers in trouble, period.
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SPC Charles Griffith
I disagree I think Soldiers should stand up for PEOPLE ALWAYS ! ! ! ! I don't care if your a Fricken Taliban Prisoner You make it to a U.S. Servicemember your should be treated with the respect we would want our Mothers treated with. And yes if my Mom were to have done something to become a prisoner I could and would be her Jailer till her trial.
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A soldier or any SM is not defined by component, role or gender but by their actions. We need to adopt the Marine philosophy and apply it to all branches -You first and foremost are a Marine/Soldier/Sailor/Airman/Coast Guardsman (for lack of a better non-gender biased reference) above and before anything else.
No one is a NG or Reserve soldier, they are a soldier in the Guard or Reserves. There are no Infantry soldiers or Signal soldiers there are soldiers whose primary MOS is Infantry or Signal. There are no male soldiers or female soldiers but there are soldiers that are of those genders. Its all in how it's stated and portrayed. Perception is everything.
No one is a NG or Reserve soldier, they are a soldier in the Guard or Reserves. There are no Infantry soldiers or Signal soldiers there are soldiers whose primary MOS is Infantry or Signal. There are no male soldiers or female soldiers but there are soldiers that are of those genders. Its all in how it's stated and portrayed. Perception is everything.
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CH (LTC) Jim Howard
The world has changed a great deal since my time on active duty, but we should demand that soldiers treat everyone with respect. The fundamental break down in discipline comes when we forget this principle.
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SFC Boots Attaway
MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca , I feel the same way. Most of my career was as an 11B but being on a BSTB staff (S3) I worked with both genders but I treated them all the same, as soldiers in the Army. I would get on my men for sexist remarks but I would also get on my women for the same thing or for dressing in too little on post. I would tell them that they did not need to invite sexist remarks or cat calls and to think better of themselves.
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SPC Charles Griffith
Could be just me but I thought that was all addressed during boot back in 1989? I seam to recall being told a soldier was a soldier period. I dont think it is as much an issue of it even needing to be said but of possibly common decency needing to be restored.
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How do you stop sexual abuse in the military, by a being a leader, PERIOD!!! I've heard every friggin' excuse on here, well, I maybe a SSG, but I can't do this, I can't do that. Then get out, because you're shitty NCO.
http://www.armystudyguide.com/content/army_board_study_guide_topics/nco_duties/duties-responsibilities-authority-of-nco.shtml
http://www.armystudyguide.com/content/army_board_study_guide_topics/nco_duties/duties-responsibilities-authority-of-nco.shtml
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SPC Charles Griffith
1LT. Lumberton NC that is the problem too many in Command thinking and acting like it is a joke. I hope you start taking your responsibility more serious. My God Man you are supposed to be a leader! ! ! !
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CPT (Join to see)
SPC Charles Griffith Thanks for pointing that out. To be honest I don't recall the circumstance I posted that. I know i used that in another point. I have removed the comment. I apologize as I would agree with your point of view if I were to see that.
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SPC Charles Griffith
Good enough LT we all do boneheaded stuff from time to time the fact that you accepted it and corrected it gives me hope for your ability to lead in a manner befitting a U.S. ARMY Soldier. Hoo Rahh LT carry on Sir.
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LTC John Wilson
We all may like the comments made in response to our answers or comments, but, we all should understand we are human, we come from different parts of the country, yet we all are Americans and the right to express our opinion. Toleration is what I see being lost in all these discussions. there is no need for cursing, threatening or damning someone because you disagree with them. Thank you all for your service and carry on!
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Thank you for your story SSG V. Michelle Woods. It is nice to know that the Marine Corps bond can be extended to the sisters who also serve.
Saepe Expertus, Semper Fidelis, Fratres et Sorores Aeterni
Saepe Expertus, Semper Fidelis, Fratres et Sorores Aeterni
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SSG Tim Everett
I don't understand the men, or women for that matter, who sit back and let harm come upon a fellow troop. Whether we're combat arms or combat support, we are part of the United States military. We are supposed to be the best military in the world. We need to act like it, and that means whether we're a leader or a follower, we all need to be sheepdog. It sickens me that men (and women) will prey on or victimise someone they could be heading into battle with. It's absolutely revolting behaviour.
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It is unfortunate that so many of us can recall negative examples that speak to this topic. I thought it would be refreshing to provide the rare positive example (though, I suppose, the very fact that it may have been needed is negative in and of itself).
On my second tour in Iraq, my squadron was posted to a small patrol base. Our S-2a was one of maybe 12 females total and one of the only ones that wasn't in the support troop. On top of that, she had to work a unique shift that left her walking back to her trailer through some rather dark and isolated areas around 0400 every morning. Before she began that shift, however, both my OIC and NCOIC ordered me (individually, I'm not sure if they coordinated it or not) to escort her back every night before resuming my duties as night shift NCO. I'm not going to pretend it didn't annoy her some nights but I carried out my orders and she always made it without incident. On those nights that she decided to sneak out on her own, I followed discretely at a distance.
Was the escort necessary? I would like to believe that it was not. Would I have received these orders had the Lt. been a male? I doubt it. Did these orders make us sexists? I suppose that is for you to decide. We viewed it as watching out for one of our own.
I think one of the main differences between the Army and the Marines is how we identify ourselves. Marines seem to identify with the Corps as a whole where-as Soldiers tend to identify with their individual units concentrically (ie: my section, my squad, my platoon, my company, etc...). You'd help out a member of your section without hesitation but someone whose only tie to you is that you are in the same division has much less pull.
On my second tour in Iraq, my squadron was posted to a small patrol base. Our S-2a was one of maybe 12 females total and one of the only ones that wasn't in the support troop. On top of that, she had to work a unique shift that left her walking back to her trailer through some rather dark and isolated areas around 0400 every morning. Before she began that shift, however, both my OIC and NCOIC ordered me (individually, I'm not sure if they coordinated it or not) to escort her back every night before resuming my duties as night shift NCO. I'm not going to pretend it didn't annoy her some nights but I carried out my orders and she always made it without incident. On those nights that she decided to sneak out on her own, I followed discretely at a distance.
Was the escort necessary? I would like to believe that it was not. Would I have received these orders had the Lt. been a male? I doubt it. Did these orders make us sexists? I suppose that is for you to decide. We viewed it as watching out for one of our own.
I think one of the main differences between the Army and the Marines is how we identify ourselves. Marines seem to identify with the Corps as a whole where-as Soldiers tend to identify with their individual units concentrically (ie: my section, my squad, my platoon, my company, etc...). You'd help out a member of your section without hesitation but someone whose only tie to you is that you are in the same division has much less pull.
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SSG V. Michelle Woods
I value and appreciate your chivalry as well as your honor in looking out for her.
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LCpl Karen Lowes
SGT Michael Root I greatly appreciated your story, thank you so much for sharing. I for one desperately needed to hear it.
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I am glad to see that in some units soldiers do not tolerate this. I can personally say that after I was raped in the Army my unit turned their backs on me and treated me like I was a liar. In fact my 1st Sgt. Looked me in the face and said "I think you are a F***ing liar". It was horrible to sit through a ton of briefings talking about a zero tolerance policy but my experience was that didn't exist. I was sexually harassed and assault after that and nothing was ever done. I am glad the word is out that this is a problem and there are many real victims.
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LCpl Karen Lowes
SPC Rachael Lavertu I'm so sorry you had to experience that. Unfortunately I can relate all too well.
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SSG Tim Everett
SPC Rachael Lavertu there aren't any words I could use to express how absolutely sorry I am that this happened to you, both the assault itself and the subsequent shameful display by your chain of command. It's times like these, hearing these stories, that I wish I'd stayed in so I could have made a difference and bucked that trend.
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SFC Boots Attaway
SPC Rachael Lavertu LCpl Karen Lowes , all I can say is that I wish I had been in your chain of command because that crap would have NEVER happened. I tried to take care of my soldiers and if I ever heard of one of my men being accused of something like this they were in trouble. Bless you both and I appreciate your service and I am sorry for your suffering.
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LTC John Wilson
Unfortunately, your past chain of command lacked the moral values that the Army strives to develop and adhere to. If, I had been in this command some heads would have rolled and some Senior NCO's and Officers would have a lot of explaining to do. It is only when a units leadership fails to correct such outrages that the unit becomes an US versus the victim mentality. It should not have happened, and I extend my apologies to you for your suffering.
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We Marines are a different bred that is for sure. Maybe the other branches should take a hard look at what works for the Marine Corps. The Corps ideas and teachings are not for everyone but they work. Man or women we all have respect for each other. No Marine left behind!
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I'm the only female in an all male Marine unit. By the way I'm the one they call DOC and they make sure they look after me. Love my Marines, they are always keeping an eye in me to ensure my safety.
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PO1 (Join to see)
Gunny if they do i a secret weapon for them. Hehehehe begins with silver and we know what the ending is.
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Suspended Profile
Having experienced the Marine Corps and the Army, I have a brief explanation. The Corps has always instilled a little something extra about the Marine Corps family. You always look out for one another because it's the right thing to do. To a Marine, having your integrity in question is worse than death. If a Marine lacks integrity, they are often times hidden away from everyone until their time in service ends. Attempting to violate the rights of another Marine is almost a death sentence... or at least it used to be. I've noticed that Soldiers either aren't being taught that kind of loyalty or they just don't care. Neither would surprise me. I'm not saying that all Soldiers are bad, and maybe it's that our service is larger. Personally, I have worked with some of the best leaders, soldiers, and mentors the Army has to offer. But I know there are more bad apples here. I know this from the friends I have that are in different career fields here in the Army. They too seem to be SMEs on sexual harrasment and assault. I also come from a southern paradise where people are treated with dignity and respect. Where people wave and say hello to everyone, even complete strangers. Chivalry is alive and well back home. But in the military service it's a different ball game. I honestly believe it's a loyalty issue. You'd never try to take advantage of someone to whom you have serisously pledged your undying loyalty.
Cpl Evan Resor
You see the difference is the core values instilled in every Marine. We are a true brotherhood regardless of gender or race. We've all fought the good fight and there is a general respect amongst us regardless of gender, race, creed, or rank for that matter. We're all marines first. That is the kind of comradery I have experienced even from unit to unit. Is like wherever the Corps sends you you always feel at home because you know you are amongst brothers and sisters in arms. Semper Fi!
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Suspended Profile
There are more bad apples in the Army. It's a simple numbers game. The uniformed services are a direct reflection of society and the Army is a great deal larger than the Marine Corps. It's not a ding on the Army, it's just simple numbers. And it wouldn't be the same argument at all because no one here is talking about race but you, let that sink in...
SGT (Join to see)
I am not taking the subject at hand lightly, but all this talking up of the brotherhood in the Marines is a bit of a whitewash job. The Army does have the most sexual assaults where it is m vs w but the core leads the way m vs m. Every branch has it's issues. It really seems to me that the issues are generally tied to people doing things they shouldn't have been doing to begin with. Not saying that every case is that way, but putting yourself in a position to be compromised will often lead to just that. Or, in other cases will le doubting you or your story/intentions, or even your abilities
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LTC John Wilson
I guess I am getting tired of the Marines placing themselves on a pedestal and condemning the Army as being less than they are. One I am a former Marine (1961-1967) I have seen and I have heard of some rather classless acts and was embarrassed by them while I was in the Corps. Marines are proud, they are solid individuals, but unfortunately a bad apple slips through the cracks. All services are the product of the community from which they come.
I left the Marines in 1967, and became an Officer in the U.S. Army Special Forces in Vietnam. We saw many different things happening in Vietnam, in a hostile environment, in a Dysfunctional environment, but NEVER did I see any male get out of line with a female nurse, or V.I.P. during our short stays inside the bases. Each party treated each other with respect and knew each other by first names despite our ranks.
Coming from the combat environment to the tranquility of the land of the Big PX, I saw some radical changes and some improper situations. However, as an officer I did not tolerate it not did I allow my subordinates to tolerate it.
Despite our best efforts some events do occur and we are embarrassed by them. However, as long as we maintain our integrity and are quick to defend the defenseless (Man or Woman) we will be a better military than ever existed in the world before. god bless the troops and God bless the Corps and the Special Forces. Leadership is the key to civilization.
I left the Marines in 1967, and became an Officer in the U.S. Army Special Forces in Vietnam. We saw many different things happening in Vietnam, in a hostile environment, in a Dysfunctional environment, but NEVER did I see any male get out of line with a female nurse, or V.I.P. during our short stays inside the bases. Each party treated each other with respect and knew each other by first names despite our ranks.
Coming from the combat environment to the tranquility of the land of the Big PX, I saw some radical changes and some improper situations. However, as an officer I did not tolerate it not did I allow my subordinates to tolerate it.
Despite our best efforts some events do occur and we are embarrassed by them. However, as long as we maintain our integrity and are quick to defend the defenseless (Man or Woman) we will be a better military than ever existed in the world before. god bless the troops and God bless the Corps and the Special Forces. Leadership is the key to civilization.
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