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Henry David Thoreau writes that “All men recognize the right of revolution; that is, the right to refuse allegiance to, and to resist, the government, when its tyranny or its inefficiency are great and unendurable”. This may be a fact, but what is not a fact is that all men (and women) do not recognize, or at least agree, on when it becomes a necessity to revolt or conduct revolution. Although we may have differing ideas, I believe that we have already been given an exact measurement as to what constitutes an act of revolution against the American government.
In present day America, citizens riot and protest in the streets for any number of reasons. As of the announcement that Donald Trump won the election for President of the United States in November of 2016, it would seem that any reason is also a good reason to go out and call for civil war. That being said, I believe that this is absolute nonsense. I, however, seem to be the minority opinion. In September of 2017, Katie Williams wrote an article for the website “The Hill” in which she stated, “Anti-fascist activists, or ‘antifa’, increasingly mobilized in the wake of President Trump’s election, are unapologetic about what they describe as the necessary use of violence to combat authoritarianism.” Authoritarianism is defined as the enforcement of strict obedience to authority at the expense of personal freedom. Interestingly enough, the only authority that has been asked to be obedient to is the law and I do not believe that abiding by the law is any reason to riot or revolt against the President of the United States.
In fact, the founding fathers, in their ultimate wisdom and uncanny ability to foresee the trials of this country long before they ever occur, left all of us an exact set of circumstances in which it is proper to rise up against our government. In the second paragraph of the United States’ Declaration of Independence, the founding fathers wrote,
“We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness – That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the Consent of the Governed, that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its Foundation on such Principles, and organizing its Powers in such Form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.”
It was stated outright at the very moment that our country became a country, when the founding fathers initiated their own revolution against the tyrannical government of Great Britain, the very circumstances that they say fit to begin revolution.
The opposition may argue that we are experiencing a similar state of affairs at present but I submit that in order for a government or, in the case of the always hated President Donald Trump, an individual in government to be considered to be acting in a fashion that constitutes being defined as destructive that one must first identify the laws or article of the constitution that is being violated or disregarded. I ask that those who believe the government has reached a point in which it is time to take up arms against it to point out where violations have been purposefully perpetrated, for without being able to clearly demonstrate that one’s government has overstepped their bounds into realm of tyranny the peoples who choose to arm themselves against a lawful government are not revolutionaries but terrorists; terrorists are defined as persons who use unlawful violence in the pursuit of political aims.
I submit that, as citizens of what, in my opinion, is the greatest country to ever be, that we understand that there is a need for revolution when our government turns on us, but that time is not now. I believe that if and or when the time to take up arms is upon us that every man and woman will be able to see it. I believe that it is time that the citizens of this country recognize not only that there may be a time for revolution but that they recognize the correct set of circumstances laid out for us by our founding fathers to know when that time has come.
In present day America, citizens riot and protest in the streets for any number of reasons. As of the announcement that Donald Trump won the election for President of the United States in November of 2016, it would seem that any reason is also a good reason to go out and call for civil war. That being said, I believe that this is absolute nonsense. I, however, seem to be the minority opinion. In September of 2017, Katie Williams wrote an article for the website “The Hill” in which she stated, “Anti-fascist activists, or ‘antifa’, increasingly mobilized in the wake of President Trump’s election, are unapologetic about what they describe as the necessary use of violence to combat authoritarianism.” Authoritarianism is defined as the enforcement of strict obedience to authority at the expense of personal freedom. Interestingly enough, the only authority that has been asked to be obedient to is the law and I do not believe that abiding by the law is any reason to riot or revolt against the President of the United States.
In fact, the founding fathers, in their ultimate wisdom and uncanny ability to foresee the trials of this country long before they ever occur, left all of us an exact set of circumstances in which it is proper to rise up against our government. In the second paragraph of the United States’ Declaration of Independence, the founding fathers wrote,
“We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness – That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the Consent of the Governed, that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its Foundation on such Principles, and organizing its Powers in such Form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.”
It was stated outright at the very moment that our country became a country, when the founding fathers initiated their own revolution against the tyrannical government of Great Britain, the very circumstances that they say fit to begin revolution.
The opposition may argue that we are experiencing a similar state of affairs at present but I submit that in order for a government or, in the case of the always hated President Donald Trump, an individual in government to be considered to be acting in a fashion that constitutes being defined as destructive that one must first identify the laws or article of the constitution that is being violated or disregarded. I ask that those who believe the government has reached a point in which it is time to take up arms against it to point out where violations have been purposefully perpetrated, for without being able to clearly demonstrate that one’s government has overstepped their bounds into realm of tyranny the peoples who choose to arm themselves against a lawful government are not revolutionaries but terrorists; terrorists are defined as persons who use unlawful violence in the pursuit of political aims.
I submit that, as citizens of what, in my opinion, is the greatest country to ever be, that we understand that there is a need for revolution when our government turns on us, but that time is not now. I believe that if and or when the time to take up arms is upon us that every man and woman will be able to see it. I believe that it is time that the citizens of this country recognize not only that there may be a time for revolution but that they recognize the correct set of circumstances laid out for us by our founding fathers to know when that time has come.
Posted in these groups: 
Command Post
Command Post
Posted >1 y ago
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Trump was duly elected by the people and he's doing what he said he would during the campaign. He's not being tyrannical. Not liking that your candidate lost the election is not a valid reason to rebel. So if anyone rises up against Trump, I'll be backing him.
On the other hand, it appears that the Obama Administration, FBI, DOJ, and Intelligence community criminally worked with the Clinton campaign to shield Hillary from prosecution for her criminal acts while at the same time criminally spying on the Trump campaign in an attempt to prevent his being elected. And now that he has been duly elected, these same bad actors appear to be criminally orchestrating a secret coup to have him removed. If there was ever a good time to rise up and rebel against the government, it would be if none of these bad actors are criminally prosecuted and appropriately sentenced for their criminal behavior.
On the other hand, it appears that the Obama Administration, FBI, DOJ, and Intelligence community criminally worked with the Clinton campaign to shield Hillary from prosecution for her criminal acts while at the same time criminally spying on the Trump campaign in an attempt to prevent his being elected. And now that he has been duly elected, these same bad actors appear to be criminally orchestrating a secret coup to have him removed. If there was ever a good time to rise up and rebel against the government, it would be if none of these bad actors are criminally prosecuted and appropriately sentenced for their criminal behavior.
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Cpl Mark McMiller
Monty Leverett - Hillary wasn't cleared of anything. Comey laid out her criminal acts and then made up some bullshit about how he couldn't recommend prosecution because she didn't show intent, but the law she violated has no element of intent. And now we're finding out that DoJ ordered the FBI to back off of Hillary and orchestrated the white wash. I believe that all falls under obstruction of justice. Time for some heads to roll.
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Monty Leverett
Cpl Mark McMiller - That's what I was referring to, he basically cleared her by not prosecuting, which we're learning was more than just his decision, meanwhile, with zero evidence, we've had 2 years of "impeach him now dammit" from the DNC
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SPC Robert Gilhuly
The good news today, William Barr will be investigating how the fisa warrants were obtained, how it was paid for,...etc. Those bad actors will finally be brought to justice. This is why I stand behind the thin blue line !
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SSG Robert Perrotto
SSG Ed Delacroix - Is this a open admission that you would commit fratricide? Downvoting for the implication, that's not cool man,.
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Voting works more effectively, With revolutions you never know how there will come out, the usual results are dictators and chaos. large scale deaths on both sides are also a reliable result. the last one here cost 600,000 dead and the places where the treason occurred took decades to recover.
Currently I find that, the people calling for revolution, unlike yourself, are people who I would not want anywhere near power and probably not even allowed near sharp objects. It was the same in the sixties but with a different type of clown.
Currently I find that, the people calling for revolution, unlike yourself, are people who I would not want anywhere near power and probably not even allowed near sharp objects. It was the same in the sixties but with a different type of clown.
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SSG Robert Perrotto
1stSgt Nelson Kerr - Here is the whole of Article 3 as it pertains to treason
<<Back | Table of Contents | Next>>
Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.
The Congress shall have power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted."
Again, no mention of secession as treason, no matter how you slice it, it's just not there 1SG.
Bottom line up front: You are wrong 1SG, California having a plan for secession was not a lie, as proven by two sources, 1/3rd of Californians supported some form of secession, which disproves your fringe lunatic claim, again supported by a reputable source, and Your claim of secession as treason by virtue of Article 3 of the constitution is demonstrably False, as I posted all of the provided article in regards to Treason, and no where does it mention secession, let alone that it is treason.
<<Back | Table of Contents | Next>>
Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.
The Congress shall have power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted."
Again, no mention of secession as treason, no matter how you slice it, it's just not there 1SG.
Bottom line up front: You are wrong 1SG, California having a plan for secession was not a lie, as proven by two sources, 1/3rd of Californians supported some form of secession, which disproves your fringe lunatic claim, again supported by a reputable source, and Your claim of secession as treason by virtue of Article 3 of the constitution is demonstrably False, as I posted all of the provided article in regards to Treason, and no where does it mention secession, let alone that it is treason.
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1stSgt Nelson Kerr
SSG Robert Perrotto Shooting as US Army Troops to implant that secession is waging war against the US. If they left it as a paper exercise that could be ignored it would not have been valid But bit would not have been treason. But when the scumbags started trying to kill US Troops it became treason.
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SSG Robert Perrotto
1stSgt Nelson Kerr - When did California declare war on the United States? Where was I when something of this magnitude occurred? Did California call up it's militia to oppose the United States? Pretty sure if a large scale, armed, force of troops or militia started firing on US Troops, it would have been plastered on every television in the world. a handful of Idiots, is a pretty good example of the definition of "fringe lunatics" unlike you ascribing 1/3rd of Californias population as "fringe lunatics"
Also, please source your claim that Californian Secessionists fired upon US troops, Forgive me if I am very skeptical of your claims, as the last three you made were outright Fibs.
Also, please source your claim that Californian Secessionists fired upon US troops, Forgive me if I am very skeptical of your claims, as the last three you made were outright Fibs.
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SFC Robert Strickland
1stSgt Nelson Kerr - Secession is separation, a withdrawal. Insurrection is open revolt. Since South Carolina was simply trying to withdraw from the Union neither of your inane charges are correct. Show me in the Constitution where secession (READ WITHDRAWAL) from the Union is treason. Prove it, if you can.
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The answer to when one should revolt is, will be, and always has been two-fold:
1. You have to be right.
2. You have to be able to win.
If you don’t have both conditions, then the discussion is academic. Thank goodness we had both conditions in 1775. Thank goodness the Southern states had neither in 1861. And may we never need either condition again.
1. You have to be right.
2. You have to be able to win.
If you don’t have both conditions, then the discussion is academic. Thank goodness we had both conditions in 1775. Thank goodness the Southern states had neither in 1861. And may we never need either condition again.
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SSgt Gregg Coldsnow
I believe the grunts would follow the constitution and not obey any unlawful order to fire on civilians. I've already heard of one squad leader who, while in formation, was told by his LT that it might come to that. The Sgt stepped forward, laid his weapon on the ground and said that he would not be able to follow any such order. Can't remember if he was reduced in rank or bounced somewhere else. Anyone else hear about this?
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PO3 Dennis Bullard
At least 33 million people own guns in America. The grunts nor the military would decide the victory. We need to stay united. Even though sometimes it may be hard to do.
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SGT Tomas "Huey" Husted
But now there are those trying to set a new course into the past. And as in 1861 they stand in the same shoes as the south. Only this time it will not be grey against blue. It will be red against the blue. With the near perverse glee that the blues have taken it upon themselves to rid the world of Trump. The utter rudeness and cruelty the Blues showed at the recent poles showed them for what they are . Unbelievable actions and words. If a call came to protect our Constitution at 'this' time I would continue to fulfill the oath I took over 40 years ago. There can be no other recourse. The Blues are not just trying to regain power they are close to trying to effect a full blown coup. There is more to their words and rhetoric behind the scenes. That is what we should be prepared for. Because legally or Constitutionally they haven't a leg to stand on.
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Monty Leverett
Thank you Major, as this is the point I make whenever someone says any state should "just secede." There was never a right on paper or anywhere else for any member of a nation to leave it, so that state must be right, and able to enforce the move to leave.
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You are not among the minority. You are simply suffering overexposure to a very vocal and disruptive minority, and those are the ones we should take note of. Keep in mind that the American Revolution was fought by a very vocal and disruptive minority. Only about a third of the colonists supported the Revolution. A third were dead set against it. The remaining third headed across the Alleghenies or into Canada to escape it. It seems to me that we are fairly divided into thirds again today. The simple fact is that every biennial election is a potential revolution. We the People have every right to say again our government has become destructive to our inalienable rights and we can replace our elected representatives, every last one of them. Then, every four years, do the same with the White House, and over six years the same with the Senate. Sadly, we can't do the same with the bureaucracy and therein lies the real problem. We need to replace those who have allowed the bureaucracy to usurp all three branches of government and then, if they can't fix things "peacefully", resort to arms to re-institute the government of enumerated powers described in our Constitution. Sadly, with the population divided into the aforementioned thirds, it is becoming increasingly unlikely that it will happen peacefully, that we will be forced to take action as the Founders did. Fortunately (for me), I am among the third that is armed.
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MSgt John McGowan
Capt Jack Durish. While I agree with you there is several other reasons for a war back then Not so much to me as then. We have people that wants the US destroyed but can they tell us just what they want. I say that as soon as we are powerless to defend some one going to pick up our pieces and the people will have a new government. It/s not what they think it going to be but it will change
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SGT Mary G.
CW5 John M. - Indeed! The corruption and divisiveness really does seem to be worse than it has been - perhaps since the Civil War. And of course there is also the double standard hypocrisy that goes along with justifying so much armed conflict in so many places. If we step back and look at what our government has allowed our military to become, it is not difficult to see that nations around the world see the U.S.A. creating empire. And the defense funding is so top heavy in the budget that it is no wonder the inability to focus on and maintain domestic needs, satisfactorily is resulting in divisiveness.
And how about the Space Force? As if that is going to help matters. I'm guessing with NASA not as active, there is no way to hide the "black ops" budget that has probably been used for "space force" type interests for quite some time.
Don't get me wrong. I am very pro-military and defense. I am just not pro abuse of our military to do the bidding of other nations all the time which results in U.S.A. being resented and competed with, world-wide, for creating empire.
And how about the Space Force? As if that is going to help matters. I'm guessing with NASA not as active, there is no way to hide the "black ops" budget that has probably been used for "space force" type interests for quite some time.
Don't get me wrong. I am very pro-military and defense. I am just not pro abuse of our military to do the bidding of other nations all the time which results in U.S.A. being resented and competed with, world-wide, for creating empire.
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SSG Scott Johnson
CPT Jack, I hear ya! Voting is unfortunately not guaranteed to work. We don't know for sure that elections have been swayed to one party or another, but it sure does seem that way sometimes. So how do we accept the results when we can't even keep non-citizens from voting or people voting more than once?
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Just because you don't like the outcome of a duly elected official (President), doesn't constitute to killing your fellow man to revolt against said results.
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1stSgt Nelson Kerr
SGT Cort Landry it's the first amendment is change via another amendment that was ratified by the states then rebelling against or bearing arms against that is lawful action is simply treason..
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SSG Robert Perrotto
1stSgt Nelson Kerr - then I would commit treason, same as our forefathers against King George. I would rather be damned advocating for liberty, then be shackled by intolerance.
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1stSgt Nelson Kerr
SSG Robert Perrotto Won the oath you took on enlistment was meaningless to you. That is simply sad food peoplenhave died for thatboath and you piss on it.
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Once they try to confiscate firearms from the people they will then absolutely be violating the constitution.
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SGT Breck Wilson
MSG Stan Hutchison there's nothing to say you are absolutely entitled to your thoughts and opinions. I personally do not agree with you especially when time and time again the one doing the mass killings are legally not allowed to posses any firearms yet they still do so no matter what law's you pass don't matter criminals don't follow law's. Also under their definition any firearms that are magazine fed are considered assault so handgun rifle or shotgun! I personally am against any new gun laws because only the good guys follow them. And just like when in the military I am still more than willing to fight and die for my right's!
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CPL William Welch
MSG Stan Hutchison -
If even half of the gun crime in this country were committed by AR patterned rifles I would understand your argument, If "assault" rifles killed more people than melee weapons each year in our country, maybe. But to say something should be banned because it looks scary, well that's bear walking up a dirt hill on the track roads of Ft Benning, a slope slicker that oil on an onion.
If even half of the gun crime in this country were committed by AR patterned rifles I would understand your argument, If "assault" rifles killed more people than melee weapons each year in our country, maybe. But to say something should be banned because it looks scary, well that's bear walking up a dirt hill on the track roads of Ft Benning, a slope slicker that oil on an onion.
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SGT Wayne Coulter
ANY attempt to confiscate, ban of otherwise limit personal ownership of arms to include ammunition, repair parts and the like is an infringement of the second amendment. Remember that through history populaces that were disarmed by their government were often slaughtered. (China, Germany, and a host of other socialist/communist nations)
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Monty Leverett
WHEN the Dems manage to take the White House, they will "just declare" that guns are an emergency, demand confiscation, and poof, Police and Military, in large numbers, will refuse to comply, then it will get ugly.
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I agree that now is not the time. Had the election turned out differently we might have been put into that position but I thank God we were not.
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SSgt Boyd Herrst
LTC Charlie Brown; I’m just happy that point in time didn’t occur. Now.. for groups like Antifa or New Black Panthers or even Someone like obama and the “Deep State” I would stand against if properly deputized or even recalled to duty ... I would proudly take over in a mess facility to replace s’body more able bodied that could take up Arms..
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SFC Melvin Brandenburg
I'm not sure the leftists understand how deep our commitment to the Constitution and liberty runs.
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very well written post SGT Gunderson, thankfully - we are no where near having to make that fatal choice, make no mistake - a civil war would end the United States as a power in the world. Social Media is a cesspool of idiocy, if that's the only place you look - you would believe we were on the brink of just that - a civil war - but in reality - the vast majority of Americans are still going to work, still loving their families and neighbors, basically doing exactly what they have been doing before the election, they look at the Roseannes and Samantha Bees, and shake their heads - seriously - who but young people really care about such things - Roseanne got fired - eh - she was an idiot and said some screwed up things, Samantha Bee - another idiot (who's advertisers are dropping for her show) said some stupid shit - none of this effects the average American, its just drama.
Now - the time to start being concerned is when and if they actually allow the government to determine what is "hate speech", and if they come to disarm the citizens - both of those scenarios will kick it off - the Antifa shit - that will stop when a bunch of them mess with the wrong people - and mark my words - they will run into some people who will shoot them - its all fun and games until they realize that they can be killed.
Bottom line up front - no matter how bad we believe our government leadership to be, we will have the opportunity to vote them out every two, four, and six years. I just wish our young adults would educate themselves concerning our republic.
Now - the time to start being concerned is when and if they actually allow the government to determine what is "hate speech", and if they come to disarm the citizens - both of those scenarios will kick it off - the Antifa shit - that will stop when a bunch of them mess with the wrong people - and mark my words - they will run into some people who will shoot them - its all fun and games until they realize that they can be killed.
Bottom line up front - no matter how bad we believe our government leadership to be, we will have the opportunity to vote them out every two, four, and six years. I just wish our young adults would educate themselves concerning our republic.
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Susan Foster
SGT Joseph Gunderson - Would love to see the data on that. Since most of my friends on right-wing, I hear so much more from them about how we need one party (theirs) taking control and wiping out the other one. It's scary. I think people don't even understand any more how government is intended to work.
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SSG Robert Perrotto
Susan Foster - we do not need one party per se - we need a party that represents centrists - or those on the middle of the political spectrum - those 150+ million who did not vote last election, that's the target - they are the same people - they are the ones who realize that political parties and the ideology they present are - for lack of a better word right now - retarded ( had a few bottles of wine). I look around and see average American - regardless of specific demographic - still going to work, still loving their families, and neighbors - regardless of the political spectrum they are on. Young people - are the majority of those that are discontent - they believe they are entitled to the things their parents and grandparents have accomplished and accumulated over their lifetimes - without realizing that life, and their fellow Humans do not owe them anything.
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CWO3 (Join to see)
Hear, Hear. Well said. If you don’t like this Country, you’re more than welcome to leave it peacefully.
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SFC Domingo M.
The proof lies in the pudding. The indoctrination centers (the Public School System) are turning out those young people each and every year. Until we get rid of our liberal schools, it will be an uphill battle. We need local control of our schools and cut the Fed completely out of it.
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You are right on.
We live in a civil society so we excersize our “replacing the government” every two years at election time.
That being said, I believe there are “tipping points” we should look out for.
1. When we are not allowed to petition our government for grievances.
2. When they try to disarm us.
3. When they cancel elections or interfere to the point that elections become pointless.
4. When they take over production or personal ownership of property without redress or compensation.
5. When they limit free speech or any other of the amendment rights we have.
And there are others but this is a good starting list.
SSgt Mimeault
We live in a civil society so we excersize our “replacing the government” every two years at election time.
That being said, I believe there are “tipping points” we should look out for.
1. When we are not allowed to petition our government for grievances.
2. When they try to disarm us.
3. When they cancel elections or interfere to the point that elections become pointless.
4. When they take over production or personal ownership of property without redress or compensation.
5. When they limit free speech or any other of the amendment rights we have.
And there are others but this is a good starting list.
SSgt Mimeault
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SPC Jesse Davis
Trump was the first president to ever outright say 'lets just take the guns first'.
Though, let's be serious, we know that this list is very selectively applied.
Though, let's be serious, we know that this list is very selectively applied.
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SSgt Paul Mimeault
SSgt Jon Hall while I agree in principle that executive orders should not have the same force as law, they are important in our government to make things happen immediately. Anyone who disagrees has the right to take it to court and many have. I did once with local PD (and I won).
One thing I’ve marveled over is why people gun legislators don’t file suit against states and such to get Over burdensome and unconstitutional laws overturned.
One thing I’ve marveled over is why people gun legislators don’t file suit against states and such to get Over burdensome and unconstitutional laws overturned.
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SPC Jesse Davis
SSgt Paul Mimeault -
Most red hats don't exist outside of their narrow media pool. Do better than them.
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/376097-trump-take-the-guns-first-go-through-due-process-second
Most red hats don't exist outside of their narrow media pool. Do better than them.
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/376097-trump-take-the-guns-first-go-through-due-process-second
Trump: 'Take the guns first, go through due process second'
President Trump on Wednesday voiced support for confiscating guns from certain individuals deemed to be dangerous, even if it violates due process rights.
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