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Cpl Jeff N.
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Edited >1 y ago
And the fact still remains after all of David Frum's typing away in tis article that there is no crime called collusion. It is not defined in the statutes anywhere. Many of us have been saying this for many months, collusion is not a criminal offense, the left has been slinging the word around like it meant something for almost 2 years now. Now that they have come to realize it is meaningless, they are trying to change the word.

Those of you on the left are going to be very disappointed when all of this ends without a single solitary charge or hint of a charge against Trump. The left in the media right now are acting like the Manafort Trial has something to do with Russian interference in our elections. It does not and they simply mislead the willingly misled.

Collusion is not worse than a crime, it is not a crime and it is not even defined in statues. We do know than the DNC and the HRC campaign paid a British agent to dig up dirt on Trump from Russian sources. We know this because the Obama administration used this info as evidence to get a FISA warrant against a US citizen who to this date has not been charged with anything.
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Cpl Jeff N.
Cpl Jeff N.
>1 y
MSgt Steve Sweeney - The article, which is the source of this post, attempted to say that collusion is worse than a crime. That is poppycock. Collusion is not even a crime. It is not defined as one and your definition and mine for what collusion is or is not will be different.

What does "colluded with a hostile foreign adversary" mean? Is it a conversation, a meeting, what has to be discussed etc. It is a meaningless phrase.

Conspiracy, obstruction of justice, treason etc are crimes. Crimes which there is zero evidence of and no one, in their right mind, is suggesting they occurred. The media has used the word collusion for a year or more to make it sound like something happened that did not. The writer has outdone the others by now saying collusion is worse than a crime. This is word gymnastics and an insult to anyone's intelligence that knows anything about what has occurred.
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MSG Civilian Investigator
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>1 y
SSgt Joseph Baptist - Another act of "collusion" with a Foreign government was when Hillary's campaign contacted Ukraine officials to dig up dirt on Trump.
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MSG Stan Hutchison
MSG Stan Hutchison
>1 y
Collusion is not in the law books,, but the synonym conspiracy certainly is.

Now, all you Trumpers together; But, Hillary did,,,, but Bill did,,, but Obama did,,, but Nixon did,,, (oh, wait, he was a Republican so never mind)
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SGT Mary G.
SGT Mary G.
3 mo
Maybe the term "collusion" should be replaced with what it actually is: "aiding and abetting" for some who are colluding, "conspiracy" for others. The word collusion allows for "plausible deniability" even when it is not so innocent even if it is plausible - before the point is reached of throwing the book at colluders for the conspiracy in which they are involved!
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Maj John Bell
4
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Edited >1 y ago
Who knows...? But after the next election he will have a lot more flexibility. OOOOPS wrong guy!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNxEDomUlXw

Oh wait... maybe I've got the context wrong...

"But in an unscripted moment picked up by camera crews, the American president was more blunt: Let me get reelected first, he said; then I’ll have a better chance of making something happen.

“On all these issues, but particularly missile defense, this, this can be solved, but it’s important for him to give me space,” Obama can be heard telling Medvedev, apparently referring to incoming Russian president — and outgoing prime minister — Vladi­mir Putin.

“Yeah, I understand,” Medvedev replies, according to an account relayed by an ABC News producer, who said she viewed a recording of the discussion made by a Russian camera crew. “I understand your message about space. Space for you . . .”

“This is my last election,” Obama interjects. “After my election, I have more flexibility.”

Medvedev, who last week demanded written proof that Russia is not the intended target of U.S. missile defense efforts, responded agreeably.

“I understand,” he told the U.S. president. “I will transmit this information to Vladimir.”

Nope... Nope the context seems right. Screw the voters, once they can't do anything about it.
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MSG Stan Hutchison
MSG Stan Hutchison
>1 y
Cpl Craig Marton - A matter of record.
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Maj John Bell
Maj John Bell
>1 y
MSG Stan Hutchison - As far as I can tell, the only thing President Obama did was declare 35 Russian Diplomats persona non-gratis, a largely symbolic gesture; and have John Brennan issue a STERN warning [OH MY!!!] The anti-US efforts of those 35 were picked up by others with zero loss of momentum. What specific sanctions did the President Obama impose or propose to a hostile congress, as a response to election meddling or collusion?

MSgt Steve Sweeney I fail to see how getting our NATO Allies to live up to their commitments, when they have not for decades is weakening NATO. If the NATO Allies do not believe NATO serves a purpose, perhaps we should listen. (I believe it serves a purpose. I believe they believe it serves a purpose, but they like it when we carry their freight.) If our NATO Allies do believe NATO serves a purpose how does "denigrating" them strengthen President Putin's position? How has NATO's combat capabilities been weakened. Have we drawn down forces? Have we abandoned the missile defense shield for our NATO Allies bordering Russia for absolutely not one single concession?

You got me on his comment about Russian meddling. It was pretty damn stupid, but at this point I'll give his claim of having misspoke the benefit of the doubt. President Trump could definitely benefit from taking three deep breaths and counting to 10 Mississippi prior to speaking.

I don't get the hubbub about the private meeting with President Putin. When conducting diplomacy private conversations happen all the time. Even if Senate Minority Schumer and House Minority leader Pelosi had been there, President Putin can claim whatever he wants. In the context of the current political climate it did nothing for President Putin, but for those so inclined, it certainly damaged President Trump, but only domestically. What was the damage internationally, none...? I would think that would make you happy to see him waste political capital.

So I still don't get your point.
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MSgt Steve Sweeney
MSgt Steve Sweeney
>1 y
Maj John Bell - As an infantry officer, I am sure you are familiar with the concept of cohesion, especially among those who are fighting together. If you fail to see how insulting and putting space between the U.S. and its allies, while at the same time showing deference to adversaries, weakens the alliance, I am not sure what I could say to convince you.

Why would it make me happy to see the President of the United States waste political capital? My biggest problem with Trump is how he is damaging the credibility of the office at home and the standing of the United States globally. I don't like seeing Trump conduct himself like an ass, cozy up to despots, and act stupidly, but it happens just the same.
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Maj John Bell
Maj John Bell
>1 y
MSgt Steve Sweeney - As an infantry officer, I am also familiar with the concept of "Marine, you get off your dead ass and carry your freight." Most of our NATO Allies are not carrying their own freight. Those that do not carry their own freight are never ignored in the infantry and the attention they get is not coddling.

Which is weakens the NATO Alliance worse:
-Accepting our allies tepid efforts?
-Giving them the "Patton slap" and telling them to live up to their commitments?

Better no ally than one on whom you cannot depend.

President Trump has done nothing to the Office of the President. He has two cults of personality. One that hates him and views everything through that paradigm; One that loves him and views everything through that paradigm. The rest are pragmatists that view his performance through the results (like the results or dislike the results) and conduct their analysis based on their own priorities.

I'm not trying to be insulting (honestly) but I don't care about ruffled feathers in NATO.
Ruffled feathers don't tip the balance when it comes to combat power. What tips the scale is budget, and the will to stand up. Most of our NATO Allies, once again, are not carrying their freight. NATO might as well be a quilting bee.
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PO1 William "Chip" Nagel
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PO1 Tony Holland Collusion sounds better that Conspiracy with a Foreign Government. Collusion and Conspiracy are one in the same and Trump is Playing a Semantics Game for the Ignorant. Of Course when Push comes to Shove I'm sure that what His Legal Team will argue the Ignorance Defense since that is the Only Way Out. He "Didn't Know" or "Didn't Understand"
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PO2 Robert Aitchison
PO2 Robert Aitchison
>1 y
Conspiracy with an *adverserial* (if not hostile) foreign government.
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PO1 William "Chip" Nagel
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SrA Michael Webster
SrA Michael Webster
>1 y
Definitions aside... there is one thing missing... EVIDENCE! Two years and nothing except a severe case of Trump Derangement Syndrome.
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SSgt Gary Andrews
SSgt Gary Andrews
>1 y
I'm really amazed at how many people on this site, military folks all, seem to have no problem with the fact that Trump and his people had multiple contacts with Russian operatives (not speculation - the contacts are detailed in the Mueller report) and lied about them.....then mis-characterized the subject matter of the meetings when they could no longer deny them. Then just today, he yuks it up on the phone with Putin about the outcome of the report.....and when asked if he talked to Putin about their interference in our elections, he said they didn't talk about that. The Mueller report specifically states that the Russians were behind the hacking of emails, and they attempted to influence our election through false social media stories and ads. Trump is ok with all of that apparently......since he was the one to benefit from it (and assumes if it happens again in 2020, he will be the beneficiary again). People like to say there was no evidence of collusion......read the damn report......there is plenty of evidence of the Russians working hand in glove with the Trump campaign. Trump may not have initiated it, but he and his campaign were certainly willing to accept the help. Never occurred to them that it might be "wrong" to meet with, and accept help from, an adversarial foreign government? And people on this site have no issue with that either? Really?????
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