Posted on Jul 27, 2020
'Get the hell out of our uniforms': It's getting hard to tell who are the real law enforcement as...
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LTG
Uniforms
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 14
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No disrespect intended to the General... but camo is just fabric, and these people are not wearing "our" uniforms. I'll try and prove my point.
Thirty years ago, the "standard" across all services for utility combat uniforms was the "woodland" pattern BDU (with variations such as DCU and "chocolate chip" for arid climates). Sure, there were minute differences between winter and summer versions; some services wore "Ripstop", some not... and the Marines (who can always be counted on for finding a way to celebrate their uniqueness) found a way to "fade" theirs to the point of looking like a wholly different item altogether. Civilians could pick these up for a few bucks at countless surplus stores; and from hunters to sheriff's deputies on drug raids... everyone understood that what made something a "uniform" was the insignia that went on them. Even though they looked very similar.. no one was mistaking a SWAT team for the "Unit".
Just under twenty years ago... the insanity (and obscene profit scheme) of "branding" various branches to a camo pattern began with MARPAT (incidentally horked from the Canadians, who probably stole the idea from the Germans). The Army came up with their now infamous reply, the Air Force took "tiger stripe" and garnered no lack of scorn by simply "digitizing" it, and the Navy... my beloved Navy... came up with some blue and grey piece of comedy that was ridiculous, even by our standards. Eventually, in a bid to try and further formalize the unofficial disgust for all "POGs", the Army came up with another pattern that was ostensibly supposed to be theater specific... but eventually became de rigueur for not only the entire Army, but the Air Force too. Not to be outdone, the Navy came up with not one-but two such patterns, and declared one for "high speeds" only. At this point, we've got young service members and armchair warriors shouting "stolen valor" every time someone puts on anything that "might" be construed as a "military uniform"... even if they're clearly not, and even though the only reason THEY might be wearing it themselves is because some general or admiral liked it enough to "steal" it from some special operations unit trying to be innovative.
As a side note... a pair of pants once worn by a Ranger might go for several hundred dollars on eBay... insanity I tell you.
This latest "confusion" is (in my opinion) just a red-herring designed to further delegitimize any attempt by the authorities to quell these open revolts. The Feds are wearing Multicam (or OCP, or "Scorpion", or "Yellow-Lemon-Sherbert Surprise No. 9") and full battle rattle because they're NOT handing out speeding tickets and rounding up drunks... they're engaged in low-intensity urban conflict bordering on urban warfare. I'd wager that a propensity of them are veterans of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and some are very probably former combat arms, Paratroopers, Rangers, Special Forces and SEALs. Even those who aren't, more than likely have been through more "combat training" than your average non-infantry Soldier, Sailor, Airman, or (maybe) Marine... all because in this day and age, our "domestic threats" are more akin to enemy combatants than run-of-the-mill criminals.
Thirty years ago, the "standard" across all services for utility combat uniforms was the "woodland" pattern BDU (with variations such as DCU and "chocolate chip" for arid climates). Sure, there were minute differences between winter and summer versions; some services wore "Ripstop", some not... and the Marines (who can always be counted on for finding a way to celebrate their uniqueness) found a way to "fade" theirs to the point of looking like a wholly different item altogether. Civilians could pick these up for a few bucks at countless surplus stores; and from hunters to sheriff's deputies on drug raids... everyone understood that what made something a "uniform" was the insignia that went on them. Even though they looked very similar.. no one was mistaking a SWAT team for the "Unit".
Just under twenty years ago... the insanity (and obscene profit scheme) of "branding" various branches to a camo pattern began with MARPAT (incidentally horked from the Canadians, who probably stole the idea from the Germans). The Army came up with their now infamous reply, the Air Force took "tiger stripe" and garnered no lack of scorn by simply "digitizing" it, and the Navy... my beloved Navy... came up with some blue and grey piece of comedy that was ridiculous, even by our standards. Eventually, in a bid to try and further formalize the unofficial disgust for all "POGs", the Army came up with another pattern that was ostensibly supposed to be theater specific... but eventually became de rigueur for not only the entire Army, but the Air Force too. Not to be outdone, the Navy came up with not one-but two such patterns, and declared one for "high speeds" only. At this point, we've got young service members and armchair warriors shouting "stolen valor" every time someone puts on anything that "might" be construed as a "military uniform"... even if they're clearly not, and even though the only reason THEY might be wearing it themselves is because some general or admiral liked it enough to "steal" it from some special operations unit trying to be innovative.
As a side note... a pair of pants once worn by a Ranger might go for several hundred dollars on eBay... insanity I tell you.
This latest "confusion" is (in my opinion) just a red-herring designed to further delegitimize any attempt by the authorities to quell these open revolts. The Feds are wearing Multicam (or OCP, or "Scorpion", or "Yellow-Lemon-Sherbert Surprise No. 9") and full battle rattle because they're NOT handing out speeding tickets and rounding up drunks... they're engaged in low-intensity urban conflict bordering on urban warfare. I'd wager that a propensity of them are veterans of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and some are very probably former combat arms, Paratroopers, Rangers, Special Forces and SEALs. Even those who aren't, more than likely have been through more "combat training" than your average non-infantry Soldier, Sailor, Airman, or (maybe) Marine... all because in this day and age, our "domestic threats" are more akin to enemy combatants than run-of-the-mill criminals.
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SPC Kevin Ford
LCDR Joshua Gillespie - The idea that people starting to be concerned about BLM, etc is a reason for deescalation, not escalation.
Through all of this you have failed to provide a single reason why it is a good idea for police to wear those uniforms. All the “war footing” comments in the world don’t make it a good idea. This is something easy to change and there are good reasons to change it. The fact that you seem so resistant to the idea of changing something so simple that people are concerned about without being able to articulate any good reason to keep the status quo makes me wonder what the motivation is.
Through all of this you have failed to provide a single reason why it is a good idea for police to wear those uniforms. All the “war footing” comments in the world don’t make it a good idea. This is something easy to change and there are good reasons to change it. The fact that you seem so resistant to the idea of changing something so simple that people are concerned about without being able to articulate any good reason to keep the status quo makes me wonder what the motivation is.
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LCDR Joshua Gillespie
SPC Kevin Ford - As nicely as I can put it, you're simply arguing in circles because you're hoping for the last word. So be it-here's my final words-and you may say what you will after. No-it is not incumbent on those standing up for law and order to "deescalate" before the demands of the mob. That's the aim of any such riot... to intimidate government into capitulation. Sometimes, it works... other times, those in rebellion get more than they bargained for. I hope and pray this time... common sense prevails, and cooler temperatures lead to cooler heads.
As to reasons: Well, frankly... it doesn't matter to me if they wear $500 camo uniforms, or clown suits... they're federal agents protecting federal property. The appropriate place to lodge a complaint is with your congressman... not the streets.
As to reasons: Well, frankly... it doesn't matter to me if they wear $500 camo uniforms, or clown suits... they're federal agents protecting federal property. The appropriate place to lodge a complaint is with your congressman... not the streets.
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SPC Kevin Ford
LCDR Joshua Gillespie - So that was your final, final word? It seems we are both interested in the last word, but nice of you to accuse me of something you were doing too. Then leaving me in the catch .22 of either not responding to your accusation or responding and you using it as evidence you were correct.
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LCDR Joshua Gillespie
SPC Kevin Ford - Well, I certainly don't want you to feel that way about it, so I'll say one final (final-final) thing: No, I'm not trying to present you with a "Catch22" or find "evidence" against you. I'm simply stating that whatever I say in response... you have a ready counter for; and that's perfectly acceptable. There's simply no reason to continue to discuss the issue if neither of us seem able to change our point of view in the slightest.
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SGM Steve Wettstein
PO1 William "Chip" Nagel IMO he went to far with his comments about LEO actions when he doesn't all the info. Totally agree on the uniform part though. Hopefully the country doesn't stay "Stuck on Stupid".
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I understand all the arguments...
I'd like to say that US Military Uniforms are for US Military. I cringe every time I see a "WANNABE" or ANTIFA ect...but it has already been ruled on that as long as service and name tapes are removed.
I personally would like to see Police in Dark Blue or Tan tactical Uniforms depending on what their normal patrol uniform is.
LAPD and NYPD have Dark Blue Uniforms so should wear Dark Blue since there is no mistaking who is a Police officer. Also there is no mistaking a Police Officer for National Guard.
As a Deputy I had Dark Brown '5.11" type pants and a light tan shirt.
Also I think they should be wearing colored patches not subdued they are not trying to sneek up on criminals they are saying here we are don't get stupid. Unfortunately ANTIFA and their DEMO-RAT handlers are not really smart.
I'd like to say that US Military Uniforms are for US Military. I cringe every time I see a "WANNABE" or ANTIFA ect...but it has already been ruled on that as long as service and name tapes are removed.
I personally would like to see Police in Dark Blue or Tan tactical Uniforms depending on what their normal patrol uniform is.
LAPD and NYPD have Dark Blue Uniforms so should wear Dark Blue since there is no mistaking who is a Police officer. Also there is no mistaking a Police Officer for National Guard.
As a Deputy I had Dark Brown '5.11" type pants and a light tan shirt.
Also I think they should be wearing colored patches not subdued they are not trying to sneek up on criminals they are saying here we are don't get stupid. Unfortunately ANTIFA and their DEMO-RAT handlers are not really smart.
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