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I am sharing this so as to dispel any notion that just because we have a CCDW license and conceal carry we have any duty or right to act like a cop. By rushing in when the policy are already involved you could only make things worse and more complicated for the officer involved. The one time I was in that position....I simply became a good witness.
You Are Not a Cop
Posted from usconcealedcarry.com
Concealed Carry
Police
Competitive Shooting
Fort Knox
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 8
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The author makes some decent points but takes a very liberal care about yourself view on the issue. As a LEO of nearly 18 years I completely disagree with him. Yes IF it's a minor thing and no one is really in danger, be a witness. But if you think someone's life is potentially in danger, you should step in, otherwise don't make the choice to carry. I get others don't have as much training, others haven't pledge to risk their life, but in that moment the risk is a personal choice only to be made by the CCW holder. We can always spin it to it was just a teenager with a pellet gun, (which by the way mostly look real now and it is likely we would have shot him too), or it is just $50 But where do we draw the line? Let that go and suddenly it's only $100, only $1000 and so on. Now that teen becomes more bold and the next time is a real gun and an innocent might get killed. We can't afford to be softer, we need a harder stance on violent crime and more people carrying and stepping in to really make an impact. Reality is with lack of manpower and call volume, it's likely to take me 12+ minutes to arrive on scene of a crime in progress. You may not be a cop, but you are a citizen, and there was a time that meant helping your fellow man.
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LTC Thomas Tennant
I like your comments. But remember my premise, a LEO is already involved. Come to think of it, the minute a LEO is on the scene they are IN CHARGE and the CCDW holder now becomes back up and a good witness.
NOW, if a dangerous crime is being committed and peoples' lives and physical safety are on the line AND no LEO is on the scene....I agree 100% with you that the CCDW holder had to take action to stop and prevent death or bodily injury. I draw the line when asked to give pursuit....heart issues. Also there is the legality of my giving pursuit.
https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/perils-pursuit/
You mentioned training, as a responsibly armed citizen it is my duty and responsibility to plug in and get as much as I can. The NRA, IDPA, USPPA and other organizations have great training programs and sponsor matches where the CCDW holder can improve on their basic skill sets. Most gun clubs host these matches and the "scenario" based stages gets you thinking and planning. Point being, if you hold a CCDW license you better stay current and practice.
Other organizations like USCCA (United States Canceled Carry Association) provide educational and other support services to include attorney referral/support and limited reimbursement.
NOW, if a dangerous crime is being committed and peoples' lives and physical safety are on the line AND no LEO is on the scene....I agree 100% with you that the CCDW holder had to take action to stop and prevent death or bodily injury. I draw the line when asked to give pursuit....heart issues. Also there is the legality of my giving pursuit.
https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/perils-pursuit/
You mentioned training, as a responsibly armed citizen it is my duty and responsibility to plug in and get as much as I can. The NRA, IDPA, USPPA and other organizations have great training programs and sponsor matches where the CCDW holder can improve on their basic skill sets. Most gun clubs host these matches and the "scenario" based stages gets you thinking and planning. Point being, if you hold a CCDW license you better stay current and practice.
Other organizations like USCCA (United States Canceled Carry Association) provide educational and other support services to include attorney referral/support and limited reimbursement.
Is there ANY circumstance in which pursuit might be seen as “reasonable” by a jury?
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SSG Clayton Blackwell
Yeah, I completely agree when the LEO is on scene he is now in charge and the CCDW holder is now a witness. I would never ask a citizen to be my back up. When I get there I am also responsible for his/her safety as well, so
I would prefer they just get out of harms way.
You are correct about the programs. I myself am an NRA instructor and now a lot of those programs are great. Can't really speak to the others, but I'm sure there are plenty of good ones out there. I'm all for as much education as you can get on the matter
I would prefer they just get out of harms way.
You are correct about the programs. I myself am an NRA instructor and now a lot of those programs are great. Can't really speak to the others, but I'm sure there are plenty of good ones out there. I'm all for as much education as you can get on the matter
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Be a "Six" if needed to a police officer. You do have a responsibility to keep people in your immediate vicinity safe if you have taken on the responsibility to Conceal Carry, or you have no business carrying....IMHO
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LTC Thomas Tennant
Good point but in most situations do not draw until there is a clear danger. I know of someone fighting a brandishing charge because he did not do a proper situational assessment.
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Alan K.
LTC Thomas Tennant - Situational awareness is paramount when you have the ability to take a life, even with your hands. If you pull it be prepared to use it, makes you think twice. However once a situation is assessed, zero hesitation is required if heading forward. If that's what it takes.
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Yes, I agree...I am not a "cop". I'm not under the direction of local politicians and lawyers seeking re-election and to avoid "bad press". I'm not charged with enforcing laws aimed largely at ensuring a steady stream of revenue at the risk of my life. I'm not asked to spend nights in the most dangerous parts of my city for less pay than a call-center commando. I'm not subject to firing, suspension, or jail time because something happened I couldn't prevent or control.
I am a husband and father. I am a property owner. I like to think I'm someone who doesn't stand by and see evil done because it isn't "my place" to act when and if I can.
Sure, people do stupid things because they want to be "heroes"...and other people usually get hurt/killed because of it. Yes, the author makes some great points.
Still, I have always held that the only differences between an armed citizen, and the military/LE professional are the level of training and authority supporting them. In my personal, and humble opinion, the whole problem with "gun culture" in the USA is that we view ourselves as "us" and "them", instead of integrated into the common defense.
I am a husband and father. I am a property owner. I like to think I'm someone who doesn't stand by and see evil done because it isn't "my place" to act when and if I can.
Sure, people do stupid things because they want to be "heroes"...and other people usually get hurt/killed because of it. Yes, the author makes some great points.
Still, I have always held that the only differences between an armed citizen, and the military/LE professional are the level of training and authority supporting them. In my personal, and humble opinion, the whole problem with "gun culture" in the USA is that we view ourselves as "us" and "them", instead of integrated into the common defense.
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LTC Thomas Tennant
That very integration into the common defense is a good point. However, I personally am very careful how I get integrated. It starts with making my presence know to the engaged police officer and following their lead. I made a career following and giving orders, and there is a time and place for both. Like you I will not stand by and watch evil done...by my days of trying to be a "hero" have been replaced by trying to be a good citizen who happens to be responsibly armed.
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