Posted on May 19, 2023
What advice do you have for a new SFC? What are some tips and tricks for success?
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So I have seen the promotion list and my new OML and my question for any senior NCOs or Officers is what was the biggest hurdle for new SFC's or what was the most helpful thing to learn when you made rank? I am headed to be an AIT Drill Sergeant and if I show up with two rockers instead of one I certainly want to be ready for the hard stuff before I am blindsided. I have a fair number of experiences, but asking the crowd can be a worthwhile endeavor. Thank you kindly in advance for your answers and advice.
Posted 2 y ago
Responses: 10
First I would call branch and ask them to change your assignemnt. While Drill is one of the most sought after, you should try to get a platoon, if they insist on Deill then try for a Basc assignemnt, there you can get viable credit for platoon time. AIT not so much, of course knowing your branch would help. Based on what you are saying, you were selected for the AIT job prior to making the list, they will likely work with you.
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CSM William Everroad
SFC Casey O'Mally - That CSM may be misrespenting the Boards they have been on.
No one on any board I served counted AIT PSG as "225". The PSG manages the other DIs, not the students. While they are accountable, Senior NCOs are tasked with developing other NCOs.
There is a difference between chasing around 225 privates in a TRADOC environment and managing Teams, squads, and platoons. The skills are different (equally important), but should not preclude service in an operational role.
No one on any board I served counted AIT PSG as "225". The PSG manages the other DIs, not the students. While they are accountable, Senior NCOs are tasked with developing other NCOs.
There is a difference between chasing around 225 privates in a TRADOC environment and managing Teams, squads, and platoons. The skills are different (equally important), but should not preclude service in an operational role.
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SFC Casey O'Mally
CSM William Everroad CSM,
If I mis-communicated, I apologize. Yes, operational time is still absolutely necessary. But operational time can be gotten VERY easily. There is always an opening for a PSG somewhere in FORSCOM. But that Drill Sergeant slot, if passed up, may not come back around.
When I went through AIT PSG school, which I will grant was a decade ago, just north of 50% of AIT PSGs were getting picked up in one of the next two selections following a successfully completed tour. I have to assume the numbers for AIT DSs are similar now that we have switched back to DSs in AIT.
No, that assignment by itself will not get you picked up, But it shows a lot of potential for performance at a higher level.
If I mis-communicated, I apologize. Yes, operational time is still absolutely necessary. But operational time can be gotten VERY easily. There is always an opening for a PSG somewhere in FORSCOM. But that Drill Sergeant slot, if passed up, may not come back around.
When I went through AIT PSG school, which I will grant was a decade ago, just north of 50% of AIT PSGs were getting picked up in one of the next two selections following a successfully completed tour. I have to assume the numbers for AIT DSs are similar now that we have switched back to DSs in AIT.
No, that assignment by itself will not get you picked up, But it shows a lot of potential for performance at a higher level.
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CSM William Everroad
SFC Casey O'Mally - 100% I understand what you were saying. The issue isn't for MSG, it's for SGM.
Any limited amount of operational time at SFC and MSG combined can drop the OML number significantly. But, so can a lack of generating force experience. It's a double edged sword. A lot of it has to do with the generating force trying to hang onto as many NCOs for as long as possible, including vying for priority fills for other billets they could get promoted into (going from PSG to 1SG in the same DIV). We do it on the operational side too if we can get away with it. I honestly think it is why so much is being moved to centralized boards.
There is an optimum balance, but it is rare. You will see it in those that get ranked in the top 5-10% for their CMF usually. But good luck decoding the success formula for the rest. The relative "rated" potential between #21 and #30 is kinda arbitrary while the difference between #1 and #21 is pretty easy to figure out.
Any limited amount of operational time at SFC and MSG combined can drop the OML number significantly. But, so can a lack of generating force experience. It's a double edged sword. A lot of it has to do with the generating force trying to hang onto as many NCOs for as long as possible, including vying for priority fills for other billets they could get promoted into (going from PSG to 1SG in the same DIV). We do it on the operational side too if we can get away with it. I honestly think it is why so much is being moved to centralized boards.
There is an optimum balance, but it is rare. You will see it in those that get ranked in the top 5-10% for their CMF usually. But good luck decoding the success formula for the rest. The relative "rated" potential between #21 and #30 is kinda arbitrary while the difference between #1 and #21 is pretty easy to figure out.
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CSM Darieus ZaGara
SFC Casey O'Mally i guess we will have to agree to disagree. I respect your experience and that of the CSMs who mentor you. I can only account for my personal experience throughout a long career. Having sat boards while mentoring hundreds throughout my career (still doing so), I know first hand what is regarded as optimal for selection to the next grade. Operational time wins hands down. I think CSM Everroad laid it out well.
Thank you for your service.
Thank you for your service.
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Remember as a SNCO your soldiers always come first. Like CSM ZaGara said, see if you can get a BCT Drill slot, will go much better as Platoon SGT. You are replaceable, so train your Squad leaders or if you get a BCT DS slot, your assistant DS to step up. Don't be afraid to give responsibility, but also make sure you hold them accountable. Don't always give "the" answers, make NCOs, soldiers look for the answers, but never let them fail. When they need help, put questions to them to guide them instead of just giving the answers. This way they will learn the Regs, know where things are found. So much easier today as you got the internet. Use the chain of command below you to your advantage to get things done, this also dishes out responsibility. Keep your eyes forward as far as your NCOES is concerned. Remember no on cares abut your career any more than you do.
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SFC (Join to see)
I like that. Soldiers first and don't just give away the answers. I had a firstline who did something similar when I was at my first duty station, forcing me to find the answers or at least some course of action.
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SGM Mikel Dawson
SFC (Join to see) - Just giving the answers, many forget and do not know where to find them. Making them find the answers, they learn.
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Never Strive To Be As Good As Everyone Else,
Strive To Be Better.
How You Manage Others, Will Be Reflected Upon Yourself.
Discipline In Private; Commend In Front Of Others.
Develop An Adequate Vocabulary, To Communicate On All Levels.
Always Ask Yourself, "Am I Being Fair"?...
It's Very Important To Be Trusted As Honest & Respectful.
Don't Ask Your People To Do Anything, You'd Not Do Yourself.
If You See Where This Is Heading. ....Your Going In The Right Direction .
.
Please Allow Me To Make This Suggestion ~ But Totally IGNORE The Title.
.
My First Copy Was $1.95. ~ In 1958. ! ~ And I've Always Had At Least ONE Available For A Constant Reminder.....I Recently Purchased Another Replacement, At Least My 10th, From AMAZON For $13.95...
In 03/2023..
But It's Worth A MILLION ~
Dale Carnegie's Publication: "How To Win Friends And Influence People".
As I Suggested "IGNORE The Title"....You'll Understand "Why", As Soon as You Begin Reading It.
Strive To Be Better.
How You Manage Others, Will Be Reflected Upon Yourself.
Discipline In Private; Commend In Front Of Others.
Develop An Adequate Vocabulary, To Communicate On All Levels.
Always Ask Yourself, "Am I Being Fair"?...
It's Very Important To Be Trusted As Honest & Respectful.
Don't Ask Your People To Do Anything, You'd Not Do Yourself.
If You See Where This Is Heading. ....Your Going In The Right Direction .
.
Please Allow Me To Make This Suggestion ~ But Totally IGNORE The Title.
.
My First Copy Was $1.95. ~ In 1958. ! ~ And I've Always Had At Least ONE Available For A Constant Reminder.....I Recently Purchased Another Replacement, At Least My 10th, From AMAZON For $13.95...
In 03/2023..
But It's Worth A MILLION ~
Dale Carnegie's Publication: "How To Win Friends And Influence People".
As I Suggested "IGNORE The Title"....You'll Understand "Why", As Soon as You Begin Reading It.
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SFC (Join to see)
I won't judge taking good life advice from a book I haven't yet read. Will add it to the list. Thank you.
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A couple general things and an AIT specific thing....
1) Senior NCO is a Big Deal. Joe sees 1SG and CSM from afar - that NCO over there. You are the top NCO that KNOWS Joe, talks to Joe daily, has direct influence. Your actions - and inactions - will directly and indirectly shape countless careers. It is an awesome responsibility; do not take it lightly.
2) Ask your peers. Back a few years ago, before I retired, about half of the SFCs I met referred to all other SFCs simply as "battle." Every PSG out there, every S3 Ops NCO, every S1 NCOIC, the entirety of the SFC ranks is your battle buddy. Don't ask them to do your job for you, but ask them to help you do it yourself - just better. And be ready to do the same. SSGs and SGTs are expected to be experts in their MOS and their field. SFCs are expected to learn ALL of the fields. You don't have to know how to fill out an SF 86 or process 4187s or fill out work orders. But you need to know who the right people to ask are. Your battle buddies in S2, S1, or S4 will make you successful. And your fellow SATCOM PSGs can help you fill white time, develop training plans, etc.
3) Part of your job is to train your PL. Help your PL become the future CO your Soldiers deserve. Teach them fieldcraft. Help them learn your Platoon. SHOW them what leadership looks like. But never, EVER undermine them in front of the Troops. You may be responsible for training the PL, but that PL is still in charge.
And for AIT:
The brown round is important and it means something. But if you have reclassifying MOS-T NCOs, remember that they are NCOs and not AIT Privates. I had a SSG Drill try to lock me up when I was a SFC student. It did not go well for him. Treat your NCOs with the respect they have earned. Yes, they are students and in your PLT. But they are still NCOs.
1) Senior NCO is a Big Deal. Joe sees 1SG and CSM from afar - that NCO over there. You are the top NCO that KNOWS Joe, talks to Joe daily, has direct influence. Your actions - and inactions - will directly and indirectly shape countless careers. It is an awesome responsibility; do not take it lightly.
2) Ask your peers. Back a few years ago, before I retired, about half of the SFCs I met referred to all other SFCs simply as "battle." Every PSG out there, every S3 Ops NCO, every S1 NCOIC, the entirety of the SFC ranks is your battle buddy. Don't ask them to do your job for you, but ask them to help you do it yourself - just better. And be ready to do the same. SSGs and SGTs are expected to be experts in their MOS and their field. SFCs are expected to learn ALL of the fields. You don't have to know how to fill out an SF 86 or process 4187s or fill out work orders. But you need to know who the right people to ask are. Your battle buddies in S2, S1, or S4 will make you successful. And your fellow SATCOM PSGs can help you fill white time, develop training plans, etc.
3) Part of your job is to train your PL. Help your PL become the future CO your Soldiers deserve. Teach them fieldcraft. Help them learn your Platoon. SHOW them what leadership looks like. But never, EVER undermine them in front of the Troops. You may be responsible for training the PL, but that PL is still in charge.
And for AIT:
The brown round is important and it means something. But if you have reclassifying MOS-T NCOs, remember that they are NCOs and not AIT Privates. I had a SSG Drill try to lock me up when I was a SFC student. It did not go well for him. Treat your NCOs with the respect they have earned. Yes, they are students and in your PLT. But they are still NCOs.
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SFC (Join to see)
I will try to bring credit to the hat and not forget the experience and resources of those around me. Thank you.
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I started as a private thirty years ago and retired as a major in 2021 and through the years how I looked at NCOs obviously changed a bit. I am sure some or many will disagree but here is how I see some things. NCOs never outrank officers legally but in many ways the enlisted rank has a higher place in the chain. As a major, I never would ever try to use that rank on someone E8 and above and in many ways the lowest field grade officer is similar to the lowest SR NCO, E7. I expected every SFC I worked with to know their career field and the Army the same as I and really you should hold us to the same. JR NCO E4-E6 more at the company grade level of experience. No SFC should ever pass rules and regulations by word of mouth, you should know the reg and paragraph it comes from. SFC is really where I saw the Army start to weed weak NCOs and my expectations of SFC and above are much higher.
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MAJ Byron Oyler
SFC (Join to see) - I suspect you are going to do very well as you are not only asking the questions but coming back to ready and reply. Perception is 90% of everything in the Army and greatness is the other 10%. You achieved the 90% with the question and the other 10% will be CSM if you want it. Being a great RN and family man was more important than LTC for me once I crossed the threshold for retirement and my 13yo son I am sure agrees. My wife became close friends with an FRG leader and her CSM husband. Great family and great CSM, he is a man and soldier many want to be. His sons in their 20s might be a wash because of all the time he spent becoming a great soldier. My son just hit his teenage years and the last three weeks have been rough for him and I. I do not know if he will turn out any better than the CSM's sons as the CSM is a great man but biggest difference here is my new goal at greatness is my family. Something to keep in mind as if you have a wife and kids the goal is they are successful much longer than a 20 year Army career.
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SFC (Join to see)
MAJ Byron Oyler Thank you for the kind words. I truly desire to excel in my career, but you are so right about the value of family.
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As a former SSG, I can't give you solid advice, and you probably already know this. From a guy who had some GREAT PSG's, and a really, REALLY bad one, all I can tell you is how your lower NCO's (and soldiers) view your leadership and concern for the troops below you, can make a major difference. Don't tolerate other NCO's, especially those your rate, who are lazy or shove their duties down, or who put their rank above their soldiers'.
The other advice I've read so far in this string, all seem solid. By the way, congratulations on your apparent recent promotion!
The other advice I've read so far in this string, all seem solid. By the way, congratulations on your apparent recent promotion!
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The one thing I will recommend is that you must be the most proficient and knowledgeable NCO in your element. I was a SSG before I commissioned. I had a very poor performing PSG. I ended up getting out of the Army. I eventually came back in but the way he treated people and dealt with situations resulting in Soldiers leaving leaving he military. Later when I came back as an officer I had to relieve a PSG in my platoon. Once again he was not knowledge and would get upset if anyone questioned him. As the PSG you are the Chief Trainer of your Platoon. You would be familiar with how we train. Understanding what an ICTL is and how the METL crosswalk affects your training progression. Even in Tradoc, you have to use lessons plans and tasks to evaluate training. When the platoons were not in line with the standards set by the Army it would make the leadership look questionable and unprepared. As a SFC you must always be prepared so you can also mentor your PL and ensure they are getting ready for more responsibility.
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SFC (Join to see)
I will make an early priority to get very familiar with those task training lists. Thank you.
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First, dont forget where you came from. Drill instructor is a good assignment. You can go different directions after ds duty such as plt sgt, instructor in mos related schools. As a drill sgt you as an e7 are also rated as a plt sgt then maybe senior drill sgt as the senior e7's move on to other assignments. Set your path on 1sg or master sgt. Its in your hands now
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SFC (Join to see)
Unless I don't think I want it the idea of dropping a packet to make Senior sounds appealing. I will stay actively engaged in where I go from here. Thank you for your guidance.
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Set the standard as soon as you you get there. Many of the Soldiers I spoke with that were under the AIT PSG did whatever they wanted…showed up to my company( when I was a 1SG) with no discipline, didn’t stand at a parade rest for NCOs (1SGs too) and didn’t even call the Commander Sir. Remember, you are not their friend but their leader. I’m not saying be difficult and disrespectful just because you are a SFC or in a leadership position. Keep in mind, you may get those Soldiers assigned to you or in your unit after they graduate. They will tell everyone too. You don’t want to be associated with undisciplined Soldiers because it will say a lot about you as a leader. Take your position seriously, be professional all the time on or off duty, and lead from the front and you’ll be okay!
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Lead by example, take care of the mission and the troops, also don't try to be an asshole by inflicting your rank to the lower EM's, it will come and bite you in the ass, just saying
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SFC (Join to see)
I will continue to not be "that" guy. It is too bad this is so common that the point has to be reiterated. Thank you.
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