Posted on May 14, 2015
Anonymous letter to the SARC about the SAPR program. Your thoughts?
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A take on the SAPR program from an anonymous female airman. Keeping it civilized and professional since this subject is touchy but conversations need to be had on it or the Services wouldn't push it. Here is the link to the article.
http://www.jqpublicblog.com/one-airmans-view-open-letter-to-the-sarc/
http://www.jqpublicblog.com/one-airmans-view-open-letter-to-the-sarc/
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 8
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Honestly I get the anger.
I use this phrase way too often. "The vast majority" of us are professionals. The Vast majority of us don't need this training at all, let alone periodically, regardless of what that period is.
If you need to be told that Sexual Assault, Abuse, Harassment, is wrong, Unacceptable, etc, you're just a bad human being, and no amount of "training" is going to fix that.
Now, I get that the definitions evolve, and people might need a quick refresher. I get that people may need to be trained on what "professional work environment" means, but that is an overarching concept above and beyond any of the Sexual X programs.
The issue as I see it, is we are effectively punishing everyone for the actions of a few, which we can't stop anyways. No amount of training is going to fix this issue. You can't fix rape. You can't fix sexual assault. You "might" be able to adjust sexual harassment statistics, though I personally think drawing attention to it is doing just as much harm as good.
I use this phrase way too often. "The vast majority" of us are professionals. The Vast majority of us don't need this training at all, let alone periodically, regardless of what that period is.
If you need to be told that Sexual Assault, Abuse, Harassment, is wrong, Unacceptable, etc, you're just a bad human being, and no amount of "training" is going to fix that.
Now, I get that the definitions evolve, and people might need a quick refresher. I get that people may need to be trained on what "professional work environment" means, but that is an overarching concept above and beyond any of the Sexual X programs.
The issue as I see it, is we are effectively punishing everyone for the actions of a few, which we can't stop anyways. No amount of training is going to fix this issue. You can't fix rape. You can't fix sexual assault. You "might" be able to adjust sexual harassment statistics, though I personally think drawing attention to it is doing just as much harm as good.
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
SFC William Farrell You misunderstand. These programs are Proactive. Your suggestion is Reactive. As I said, you can't "fix" it. We absolutely should destroy anyone who commits these acts. That isn't debatable. But a Proactive approach will never correct (fix) the issue.
Making people sit in a class and tell them why this is wrong doesn't help. It just wastes time. If they don't know it's wrong by the time we get them, they will never know.
Think about it like we would any other crime. Adding more cops doesn't lower crime. They're reactive. They don't actually stop crime, they RESPOND to crime. Sure their presence "might" DETER crime to an extent, but the vast majority of crime doesn't happen because it wouldn't happen anyways. Most people are inherently good or at least ambivalent.
Making people sit in a class and tell them why this is wrong doesn't help. It just wastes time. If they don't know it's wrong by the time we get them, they will never know.
Think about it like we would any other crime. Adding more cops doesn't lower crime. They're reactive. They don't actually stop crime, they RESPOND to crime. Sure their presence "might" DETER crime to an extent, but the vast majority of crime doesn't happen because it wouldn't happen anyways. Most people are inherently good or at least ambivalent.
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SFC William Farrell
Sgt Kennedy,
You can fix rape and sexual assault in the military by prosecuting vigorously and that is where I disagreed with you. The military has allowed this horrible crime to perpetuate itself by sweeping it under the rug as it has done for far too many years.
I recently retired from Naval Station Newport and when we had the Sexual Assault and Prevention kickoff weeks, its really annoyed me as I felt there wouldn't be a need for it if the military prosecuted. You are right about anyone who thinks it is OK, they are just bad human being and should be treated as such.
You can fix rape and sexual assault in the military by prosecuting vigorously and that is where I disagreed with you. The military has allowed this horrible crime to perpetuate itself by sweeping it under the rug as it has done for far too many years.
I recently retired from Naval Station Newport and when we had the Sexual Assault and Prevention kickoff weeks, its really annoyed me as I felt there wouldn't be a need for it if the military prosecuted. You are right about anyone who thinks it is OK, they are just bad human being and should be treated as such.
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
I don't disagree on that point. My point is that Training isn't going to fix the issue. That's what I meant above. That's a Proactive approach to a problem that can ONLY be dealt with Reactively, as you said, via vigorously prosecuting offenders. On that, we are in 100% concurrence.
My issue is one of approach. Teaching people not to rape is assinine and unnecessary. It's like teaching people not to murder. We don't have periodic classes about why it's wrong to stab/shoot/strangle our fellow brothers in arms because that would be stupid.
You can't Fix that through training. That was my point.
The Prevention aspect of SHARP is a lofty goal which is ill conceived when applied to violent crime of any sort.
My issue is one of approach. Teaching people not to rape is assinine and unnecessary. It's like teaching people not to murder. We don't have periodic classes about why it's wrong to stab/shoot/strangle our fellow brothers in arms because that would be stupid.
You can't Fix that through training. That was my point.
The Prevention aspect of SHARP is a lofty goal which is ill conceived when applied to violent crime of any sort.
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SFC William Farrell
You are right Sgt Kennedy. The military should not have to do what Mommy and Daddy forgot to do, raise their children with morals!
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I wouldn't mind if this training was yearly and focused on contact information, reporting constructs, and facts, but that hasn't been my experience. In 2012, between the trainings held for senior leadership, junior officers, and all-hands, I had 12 SAPR briefs - roughly 90 minutes each - in a 9 week period. The SARC made it very clear each time that every man was a potential rapist, and every woman was a saint. If you want someone to tune you out and be disgusted with the mere sight of you, that's the way to do it.
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LCDR (Join to see)
We were told repeatedly that if you go to a bar with a woman and have a few drinks, then engage in consensual sex, the woman has the right to claim rape later because she was under the influence. When a male pointed out, "So was the male in that scenario; and you said it was a date. I've had drinks on dates before, it's not uncommon." "It doesn't matter. See? That's why we do this training. You didn't even know you could be charged."
I'm quite certain every person in that room immediately got angry and tuned out. Turns out, according to that particular individual, anybody who has drinks with a date, then has sex, is a rapist. My wife would be shocked to know.
I'm quite certain every person in that room immediately got angry and tuned out. Turns out, according to that particular individual, anybody who has drinks with a date, then has sex, is a rapist. My wife would be shocked to know.
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I have to agree with MAJ Carl Ballinger this a double edged sword.
I would not even know how to even start to help but I do agree with what the airman was saying
I would not even know how to even start to help but I do agree with what the airman was saying
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I'd say she nailed it completely... We can't fix this issue by instilling fear, paranoia and an "us vs them" mentality...
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I can see her point of view. I have had experience with this of a sort. My dad was accused of sexual assault because he was a supervisor at work. He worked at a machinists shop - very loud, to the point where you had to stand next to the person & yell to have a conversation if you were instructing someone on how to use a new piece of machinery.
There was a female who was just hired, and was not doing well. He was hesitant because she brought with her a reputation of filing harassment charges against supervisors at previous employers - none of which were validated. It just so happened that he had to instruct her on a new machine & had to stand close to her & yell the instructions on how to operate it. She never got the hang of it & he did not certify her on that piece of equipment.
3 days later my dad was called to the boss' office & told that he was fired because the female had filed sexual harassment charges on him. No investigation, no nothing, just "you're fired". The reasoning being that they (the shop) couldn't afford to go through a lawsuit.
I have seen the way female police officers are treated around male officers. There is hesitation & apprehension. "Will I do something that will be perceived as harassing to her without me even knowing about it?" It is the same now in the military. The overbearing presence of this program is forcing segregation - out of fear.
Here is where I mirror a lot of others on this post: This issue could've been avoided if the damn crime would've been pursued when it happened, instead of sweeping it under the rug!
I think it will take pushback from females to get the balance of the program restored. Not just pushback that the program is overbearing, but that THE CRIME MUST BE PUNISHED!!!! That is the crux of it. Get it to a non-biased segment - JAG, OSI, etc - & let the crime (if found to be true) be punished!
There was a female who was just hired, and was not doing well. He was hesitant because she brought with her a reputation of filing harassment charges against supervisors at previous employers - none of which were validated. It just so happened that he had to instruct her on a new machine & had to stand close to her & yell the instructions on how to operate it. She never got the hang of it & he did not certify her on that piece of equipment.
3 days later my dad was called to the boss' office & told that he was fired because the female had filed sexual harassment charges on him. No investigation, no nothing, just "you're fired". The reasoning being that they (the shop) couldn't afford to go through a lawsuit.
I have seen the way female police officers are treated around male officers. There is hesitation & apprehension. "Will I do something that will be perceived as harassing to her without me even knowing about it?" It is the same now in the military. The overbearing presence of this program is forcing segregation - out of fear.
Here is where I mirror a lot of others on this post: This issue could've been avoided if the damn crime would've been pursued when it happened, instead of sweeping it under the rug!
I think it will take pushback from females to get the balance of the program restored. Not just pushback that the program is overbearing, but that THE CRIME MUST BE PUNISHED!!!! That is the crux of it. Get it to a non-biased segment - JAG, OSI, etc - & let the crime (if found to be true) be punished!
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CH (CPT) Heather Davis
I am a Hospital Chaplain and I will share with you this issue has impacted lives to the point that when men and women get out of the service their trust of humanity has been violated. Usually this is the second time they have been violated, it is a form of re-victimization, and many have mental health issues that haunt them and it forms a complex trauma of PTSD.
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SSgt (Join to see) I say, whoever that SARC is.... is out of touch. The Army went from SARC to SHARP, when I was in command, and it was a huge paradigm shift, wherein the Army (I assumed this was DOD wide) went from a victim centered approach (that, how not to be a victim), to a perpetrator centered focus (who are the perpetrators). It is a double edge sword at MAJ Carl Ballinger stated, but something tells me whoever delivered that training missed the boat. But, I am speaking from an Army perspective (dated), who assumed all DOD was doing the same thing. The focus is supposed to be on the perpetrators not the potential victims, and how to prevent being a victim; the latter is the old school idea and it does not work. Someone missed the boat.
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CH (CPT) Heather Davis
SGT Kennedy I am an Army Chaplain and I came through the ranks as an E-1, I have served since 1984. I am also a Hospital Chaplain and I see the end result of sexual assault in the military. I am also a Ph.D. student and I have done extensive research on how many female veterans are homeless due to the complex trauma and PTSD.
When I was a young E-5, I was punched in the face in formation due to I was the first female in my division. Many sexual assaults, hazing, and toxic environment is not reported.
When I was a young E-5, I was punched in the face in formation due to I was the first female in my division. Many sexual assaults, hazing, and toxic environment is not reported.
Pentagon releases terrifying statistics of sexual assaults in the military
The Pentagon admitted this week upon the completion of a soon-to-be released Defense Department study that sexual assaults within the United States military are on the rise.
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
CH (CPT) Heather Davis I am in no way attacking you. And if you got that impression, I apologize.
I am saying that there is no way that 1/3 of women in the military have been raped. That statistic isn't plausible. The article you previously cited lacked sources, which allowed us to analyze the data. It is much like the articles that talk about women in college being in the 20-25% range. When the data was actually analysed it was found to be flawed by a magnitude of more than 4 times, and the terms sexual assault were substituted for rape over time. I'm not going to trust that NPR 30% Rape statistic, because it lacks credibility.
The second article, I have seen before, and have zero issue with. 1/26 is about 4%. 1 in 16 is about 6%. When you say "many sexual assaults, hazing, and toxic environments is not reported" do you mean that only 1 in 5 is? Do you have anything to back that up? Do you have anything to separate Rape from Sexual Assault, from Hazing, from Toxic Environments? We cannot lump all those together.
Ma'am, I know these things happen. I'm not arguing that they don't. I'm arguing MAGNITUDE. If it's 1% it's a problem, and it needs to stop. Whatever the %, it needs to stop. But if the numbers get inflated, no one will listen, and 30% is an obviously inflated number.
I am saying that there is no way that 1/3 of women in the military have been raped. That statistic isn't plausible. The article you previously cited lacked sources, which allowed us to analyze the data. It is much like the articles that talk about women in college being in the 20-25% range. When the data was actually analysed it was found to be flawed by a magnitude of more than 4 times, and the terms sexual assault were substituted for rape over time. I'm not going to trust that NPR 30% Rape statistic, because it lacks credibility.
The second article, I have seen before, and have zero issue with. 1/26 is about 4%. 1 in 16 is about 6%. When you say "many sexual assaults, hazing, and toxic environments is not reported" do you mean that only 1 in 5 is? Do you have anything to back that up? Do you have anything to separate Rape from Sexual Assault, from Hazing, from Toxic Environments? We cannot lump all those together.
Ma'am, I know these things happen. I'm not arguing that they don't. I'm arguing MAGNITUDE. If it's 1% it's a problem, and it needs to stop. Whatever the %, it needs to stop. But if the numbers get inflated, no one will listen, and 30% is an obviously inflated number.
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
TSgt Hunter Logan I'm not discounting that. What am I pointing out is that the studies with comparable numbers (that are often cited as "proof of problem") are debunked once we delve into the actual data.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/wp/2014/12/17/one-in-five-women-in-college-sexually-assaulted-an-update/
I fully acknowledge there is a problem. I agree that we need to do everything we can to fix said problem. But we have to be as honest as we can about the problem. Sourced documents like the DoD one are are great way to do that. The NPR one however creates a false impression of the issue.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/wp/2014/12/17/one-in-five-women-in-college-sexually-assaulted-an-update/
I fully acknowledge there is a problem. I agree that we need to do everything we can to fix said problem. But we have to be as honest as we can about the problem. Sourced documents like the DoD one are are great way to do that. The NPR one however creates a false impression of the issue.
One in five women in college sexually assaulted: an update on this statistic
The oft-cited statistic on sexual assault cannot be applied to all college campuses, an arm of the Justice Department says.
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
TSgt Hunter Logan I didn't think you were, but wanted to clarify just in case.
Your last line rings the most truth, and that is what I am cautioning against.
"whomever is compiling those stats is highly likely to have their own agenda."
Whatever the number is, it's too damn high. Whoever is perpetrating this. Catch them, prosecute them, and burn them. I have zero tolerance for them.
I have no doubt that there are many assaults et al, which are not being reported. The "guesstimate" by those far more well-versed than myself is about 60% (so for every one reported, 2 are not), but.. rape in the US is about 2.5%~ In college, surveys indicate about 7%~ but it's got respondent bias. The military has better reporting and showed an increase from 4% to 6% as reporting got better. Those are all "in line" with that 2.5% (x3) number.
The raw data all points to a number below 10% (keep in mind the average military age [24] is very close to that of the average college age [20-21]).
Your last line rings the most truth, and that is what I am cautioning against.
"whomever is compiling those stats is highly likely to have their own agenda."
Whatever the number is, it's too damn high. Whoever is perpetrating this. Catch them, prosecute them, and burn them. I have zero tolerance for them.
I have no doubt that there are many assaults et al, which are not being reported. The "guesstimate" by those far more well-versed than myself is about 60% (so for every one reported, 2 are not), but.. rape in the US is about 2.5%~ In college, surveys indicate about 7%~ but it's got respondent bias. The military has better reporting and showed an increase from 4% to 6% as reporting got better. Those are all "in line" with that 2.5% (x3) number.
The raw data all points to a number below 10% (keep in mind the average military age [24] is very close to that of the average college age [20-21]).
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Pentagon releases terrifying statistics of sexual assaults in the military
The Pentagon admitted this week upon the completion of a soon-to-be released Defense Department study that sexual assaults within the United States military are on the rise.
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CH (CPT) Heather Davis
SGT Kennedy:
Respectfully I disagree and here is why I see the back end result when I go to the mental health ward, and when I help with outreach for homeless veterans and many tell me their story.
It echoes "I thought I was in a family" and it is not just women their is a high number of men that have been sexually assaulted. However these are not all of the numbers, and in my own Military career of 30 years it is amazing how many people I know that have been sexually assaulted, not including given date rape drugs.
My intent is to create awareness and a culture of change, every generation in my family has served. My son is currently in MJROTC and one day he will be a Company Commander I do not want him to have an us and them mentality. Women rape men and we have not began talking about male on male and female on female.
Since 2002, the VA has screened all discharged military personnel for MST, asking them if they have been the recipients of uninvited sexual attention, or the victims of assault. In total, more men than women — 63,467 men versus 62,448 women — have reported sexual trauma, but that figure represents just 1 percent of all men surveyed, compared to 29 percent of women, according to the VA.
By those figures, nearly one in three women in the military is at risk for sexual assault, twice as many as in the general population, according to Pentagon statistics.
"Sexual assault is the nation's most underreported violent crime. Some national studies indicate that one in six women, and one in 33 men will experience a rape or attempted rape in their lifetime," said Cynthia Smith, a Defense Department spokesperson.
While the VA says it has seen little change in the number of veterans reporting MST since 2002, the Pentagon has recorded a marked increase in the number of reported instances of harassment and assault by active duty personnel in the past two years.
According to the Defense Department's 2006 sexual assault report, the number of reported assaults skyrocketed 73 percent from 2004 — when 1,700 incidents were filed — to 2006, when 2,947 incidents were reported.
The military attributes the increase in incidents to an increase in reporting. According to the Pentagon report, "Programs to promote awareness, coupled with extensive training on policies and procedures, are creating a climate of confidence across the services, as evidenced by increased reporting."
According to Ira Katz, a VA psychiatrist, "Looking at MST often overlaps with treatments and therapies for [post-traumatic stress disorder]."
Katz said that the VA's program differs from state-run programs because the federal government employs "more experienced clinicians."
Respectfully I disagree and here is why I see the back end result when I go to the mental health ward, and when I help with outreach for homeless veterans and many tell me their story.
It echoes "I thought I was in a family" and it is not just women their is a high number of men that have been sexually assaulted. However these are not all of the numbers, and in my own Military career of 30 years it is amazing how many people I know that have been sexually assaulted, not including given date rape drugs.
My intent is to create awareness and a culture of change, every generation in my family has served. My son is currently in MJROTC and one day he will be a Company Commander I do not want him to have an us and them mentality. Women rape men and we have not began talking about male on male and female on female.
Since 2002, the VA has screened all discharged military personnel for MST, asking them if they have been the recipients of uninvited sexual attention, or the victims of assault. In total, more men than women — 63,467 men versus 62,448 women — have reported sexual trauma, but that figure represents just 1 percent of all men surveyed, compared to 29 percent of women, according to the VA.
By those figures, nearly one in three women in the military is at risk for sexual assault, twice as many as in the general population, according to Pentagon statistics.
"Sexual assault is the nation's most underreported violent crime. Some national studies indicate that one in six women, and one in 33 men will experience a rape or attempted rape in their lifetime," said Cynthia Smith, a Defense Department spokesperson.
While the VA says it has seen little change in the number of veterans reporting MST since 2002, the Pentagon has recorded a marked increase in the number of reported instances of harassment and assault by active duty personnel in the past two years.
According to the Defense Department's 2006 sexual assault report, the number of reported assaults skyrocketed 73 percent from 2004 — when 1,700 incidents were filed — to 2006, when 2,947 incidents were reported.
The military attributes the increase in incidents to an increase in reporting. According to the Pentagon report, "Programs to promote awareness, coupled with extensive training on policies and procedures, are creating a climate of confidence across the services, as evidenced by increased reporting."
According to Ira Katz, a VA psychiatrist, "Looking at MST often overlaps with treatments and therapies for [post-traumatic stress disorder]."
Katz said that the VA's program differs from state-run programs because the federal government employs "more experienced clinicians."
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CH (CPT) Heather Davis
In this study, Keene interviews six
homeless women veterans who had
served in the Navy, Air Force, and/
or Army and were in Texas homeless
veterans programs, asking them
about the meaning of homelessness,
causes or risks of their homelessness,
and the resources that would help
them overcome the cycle of homelessness.
Keene finds that all of the
interviewees were unprepared for
homelessness and not one of them
ever “expected” to become homeless,
all were sexually traumatized, and
all felt abandoned by the military.
Through her research, Keene discovers
the social and human issues
that led to their homelessness and
offers solutions to overcome these
issues, thereby decreasing women
veterans’ likelihood of becoming
homeless. Five of the six women who
Keene interviewed for this study set
finding employment as their highest
priority. Keene asserts, “A focus
needs to be placed on more job training
and job placement for those at
risk for becoming homeless or those
already homeless. As female soldiers
transition from military to civilian
life, job placement assistance is
needed so they transition to a career
rather than to unemployment and
possible homelessness.”
homeless women veterans who had
served in the Navy, Air Force, and/
or Army and were in Texas homeless
veterans programs, asking them
about the meaning of homelessness,
causes or risks of their homelessness,
and the resources that would help
them overcome the cycle of homelessness.
Keene finds that all of the
interviewees were unprepared for
homelessness and not one of them
ever “expected” to become homeless,
all were sexually traumatized, and
all felt abandoned by the military.
Through her research, Keene discovers
the social and human issues
that led to their homelessness and
offers solutions to overcome these
issues, thereby decreasing women
veterans’ likelihood of becoming
homeless. Five of the six women who
Keene interviewed for this study set
finding employment as their highest
priority. Keene asserts, “A focus
needs to be placed on more job training
and job placement for those at
risk for becoming homeless or those
already homeless. As female soldiers
transition from military to civilian
life, job placement assistance is
needed so they transition to a career
rather than to unemployment and
possible homelessness.”
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
CH (CPT) Heather Davis I'm having a hard time following you on this thread. I'm not sure which parts you are responding to, in which order. You can tag individual RP members by typing @ then the name. So if you want to tag myself it would be @ Aaron Kennedy (without the space after the @). That will let me know you've responded to me, or tagged me. If you are responding to a top level item, you don't have to tag the person however (this is your Response, so I don't have to tag you, but I did to notate it).
I really think we agree on the vast majority of this issue. I absolutely believe it to be a problem and a priority. From your posts, I have seen nothing that leads me to disagree with you, yourself.
There are "data points" I question, but that is separate from the issue as a whole. My concern with them is that I don't want them to become a distraction from the issue itself.
I really think we agree on the vast majority of this issue. I absolutely believe it to be a problem and a priority. From your posts, I have seen nothing that leads me to disagree with you, yourself.
There are "data points" I question, but that is separate from the issue as a whole. My concern with them is that I don't want them to become a distraction from the issue itself.
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