Are retirees subject to UCMJ?

SGT Thomas McLeod - Your question does not pertain to my post. Yes I do get COLA adjustments. Ready my post again. I am talking about being recalled to Active Duty then retired again as of today.

SSG Michael Doolittle - Can't ... Gen. Flynn was given a full pardon. But, maybe we should look at all the former Generals, and a few Colonels who chronically bad mouthed their Commander-in-Chief?

SSG Bill McCoy - He was pardoned for the crimes he pleaded guilty to, he was not charged for more than half of the initial charges he could have faced... He can still be charged with the crimes that were not charged...

SSG Michael Doolittle - Seeing is believing.

Being a Veteran is NOT the same thing as being a retired service member receiving either retainer or retired pay from the military. Although those people would also be classed as Veterans. If you did not retire on 30 years, or go to the (Navy version) Fleet Reserve on 20 years, you are clear of the UCMJ or recall to active duty. A Veteran may be getting disability compensation from the VA, which is NOT "retired pay", and would still not be classed as "retired" and so not subject to recall or UCMJ prosecution. That is my understanding of the laws.

I’m retired, retired USAR, not active component. Does this make me exempt? I’m not really worried, for there is no cause, but still....

Pvt SanJuana Méndez - For Veteran Admin benefits, it's 180 days service, EXCLUDING training; or one day in combat. Otherwise, most would agree that anyone who enlisted, completed basic and either served weekends as a Reservist or National Guard, IS a Veteran, or any active duty member who completed basic and received other than a DISHONORABLE discharge afterwards, is a Veteran.

CPO Dale Dietzman - I'm fully aware of the question, but the fact is you really don't have to have served in anything, If caught selling classified material with an known enemy of this country, that person will be charged with espionage. It dose not matter if you served or didn't. The same is for anyone. The question is what is (Classified material) or what actually took place when the crime was committed that bought about the charges.

I agree with your opinion!

Then, I'm happy that I retired as a Reserve Officer, and not a Regular. As such, I receive less pay and not until my 60th Birthday, but I don't seem to subject to recall at the Government's whim for crimes they might imagine.

I wonder if they can be courts-martialed for stating true facts. If that ever happens, we've crossed over into being a fascist state.

Slate is not news, no matter how well written. It is a horrible rag.

hmm but it also says "... in which he is on duty or present, shall be punished as a court-martial may direct." Hard to be retired and on duty.

First Sergeant - I'm sorry that happened to one of your men, and pleased that justice was served for at least the one person you mentioned. One of my guys, also in Germany, attempted to murder another member of my platoon. Found guilty and sentenced to life, also in Leavenworth. The last time I saw him, at the Mannheim prison, to have him sign for his pay stub, he still didn't look nor sound very contrite. Sometimes I wonder if he's still alive. But it's fleeting...

Bad part of my story is that troops who did it was mine to.

1SG David Niles : prob’ly n’thing to be conerned over.. If about a former potus(I.e. Obama). You might even get a gold star !

Although we have the freedom of speech, there can be serious consequences for poor choices of speaking negatively about someone like the Commander in chief.

Article 88 says ""Any commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the Vice President, Congress, [the various Secretaries], or the Governor or legislature of any state [they are present in]" is subject to legal penalties under the UCMJ. Articles 89 and 90 cover both officer and enlisted, prohibiting disrespectful behavior toward superior officers or NCOs, without mention of civilian officials.

So, for enlisted it seems there is no UCMJ problem, other than that which affects good order and discipline and probably any implication of official endorsement (like wearing your uniform in a protest march). For officers, it's a judgement call as to when "criticism" rises to the level of "contempt."

Around 2003, Army Pfc. Matthew C. O'Dell was quoted in the New York Times criticising SecDef Rumsfeld, saying "You call Donald Rumsfeld and tell him our sorry asses are ready to go home. Tell him to come spend a night in our building." This shortly after CSA Gen. Eric Shinseki lobbed direct criticism at Rumsfeld at his "forced" retirement ceremony, but without naming him directly.

I don't think any retired officer has been court-martialed since 1942 under Article 88. Hell, Retired Lt. Col. Robert Patterson wrote a book entitled "Dereliction of Duty: The Eyewitness Account of How Bill Clinton Endangered America's Long-Term National Security." Retired Marine LtCol. Oliver North is famous for saying "He's not MY Commander in Chief" during his senate campaign and faced no UCMJ consequences (and has since been very publicly critical of many politicians). But my all-time favorite is highly-decorated Retired Marine Gen. Smedley D Butler who authored the scathing 1935 anti-war book "War is a Racket" and was later quoted as saying “It is no longer taboo to say that President Roosevelt required Pearl Harbor to drag a war-weary American public into supporting another World War."

Active officers are much more likely to be reprimanded or force-retired than punished by a courts martial. Maj. Gen. Harold Campbell publicly called-out President Clinton for "womanizing" and "draft-dodging" and was force-retired. Lt. Col. Steve Butler got suspended from his Vice-chancellorship at DLI for alleging that President Bush "did nothing to warn the American people because he needed this war on terrorism."

Unless I missed something it says"... in which he is on duty or present, shall be punished as a court-martial may direct."

The great British courtier, wit and general observer of the human condition Sir John Harington (baptized 4 August 1560 – died 20 November 1612), once observed "Treason doth never prosper. What's the reason? Why if it prosper, none dare call it treason." I guess he had a crystal ball to see the future how else would he know about the Clintons? They sure prospered off treason!!! By the way how much did the Clinton Foundation make from the sale from the Uranium One sale of 20% of America’s uranium supply, the $14,000,000 that Hillary Diane Rodham Clinton received advance that she received for her book “Hard Choices” Which she now says she cannot remember anything about back home we call that “Chicago Amnesia”! Does anyone really need an explanation for that one and the $15,000,000 that William Jefferson “Bubba” Clinton for his book “My Life,” besides $500,000 speaking honorarium William Jefferson “Bubba” Clinton received for speaking in Moscow. ENQUIRING MINDS WANT TO KNOW!!!

PVT Raymond Lopez - Yes sir, you are correct, patriots want to know. Then we have liberals and DemocRATS.

Sgt Charles Welling - Truly, the comment might be true but irrelevant to this thread in RP. Since she was never subject to the UCMJ...although she was subject to Federal laws covering violation of NDA's and such. Again, thoughts for a different thread, different time...Semper fi, WKB

PVT Raymond Lopez, it is time for you to do some fact checking.
https://www.factcheck.org/2017/10/facts-uranium-one/

TSgt Loren Pierce - VA payments only stop on 61st day of confinement after a felony conviction. And reserve retirees are not normally subject to the UCMJ, even after drawing retired pay. Only when recalled to active service, or hospitalized as an in-patient at a military hospital, when serving a sentence of confinement pursuant to a military court-martial, or enlisted Sailors and Marines who are transferred to the Fleet Reserve/Fleet Marine Corps Reserve in lieu of "retirement" until they have completed a cumulative 30 years of active, reserve, and retired service (when they are "retired" and begin drawing 'retired' pay instead of their previous 'retainer pay.') Cheers, WKB

1SG John Millan - I think SSgt Larrabee was actually a retired SSgt vs. GySgt. It is true SCOTUS relied heavily on his status in the FMCR (hence he was receiving 'retainer' pay vs. 'retired' pay), but that distinction doesn't really change it much since the law clearly states that all retirees of the Regular Component who are in receipt of retired pay (retainer pay included, as opposed to the very, very rare Regular retirees who might not be entitled to retired pay, and those are like unicorns these days using post-WWII policies on selected retirees) are subject to the UCMJ. Agreed, retirement is a change of status! Cheers, WKB
https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2019/02/25/military-retirees-can-still-be-court-martialed-supreme-court-affirms/

PO1 (Join to see) - https://www.investopedia.com/terms/v/veterans-administration.asp
Wrong

Not talking about veterans pensions. Talking about Military retired pay after 20 years service. It cannot be stopped except if convicted of espionage. There are people serving prison sentences who still receive fuill retired pay.

MGySgt Robert McCutcheon - Unless you are a retired reservist, in which case you are transferred forthwith to the Retired Reserve as an officer, or if an enlisted reservist with less than 30 years total qualifying service as you noted they will detour for a number of years in the Fleet Marine Corps Reserve until their total years of qualifying service (active/reserve/retired) is 30 year, at which point they, too, are "retired" and transferred out of the FMCR and to the Retired Reserve. You are correct that even though the "FMCR" includes the word "reserve" in it, a retiree from the Regular Component transferred to the FMCR until they reach 30 total years does not suddenly become a reservist...they exist in the FMCR (for the most part fat, dumb, and happy like all retirees...) side by side with their reserve retired enlisted Marine counterparts until they reach the 30 year mark when they go their separate ways (Regulars are on the Retired List of the Regular Component; Reservists are in the Retired Reserve category of the Reserve Component).
Semper fi, WB

PO1 D.I. DeCosta - I served with a guy during OIE/OEF that had been retired for 20 years. He was a 62 y/o Captain and salty as fuck about it.

Too bad the IRS doesn't agree with that statement. I sure could have used the child tax credit, earned income credit all all the other bennies I got on active duty when I retired in 2007 at 45 years old. Wife died two years later (at 40 and I was left with 5 kids and unable to work. And ZERO tax deductions other than the standard deduction too. I went from getting close to ten grand back every year to zero the year I retired. (we always got it all back). But retired with no earned income and kids, you're screwed. I couldn't work. If the IRS gave a damn, they'd READ the "retirement reg" and change this for those of us who cannot work again. My son just turned 18 last august. Life would have been a LOT easier had we been able to zero my taxes like we did when I was on active duty. And the IRS simply doesn't give a damn about anyone to begin with.
Tax the money I made, tax the taxpayer, and then tax me again when the money paying my retirement was already taxed by someone else? Yeesh...

I remember the tax rates the year I was born. Anything over $100k was taxed at I think either 80 or 90%. I remember my neighbors (lawyers) bitching that they had to make an extra ten grand to net just 1k after taxes. If they had those kinds of tax rates now their would be civil war! (and yes, while the constitution DOES provide for a civil war to change the government ((Even Thomas Jefferson said "god help us if we do NOT have a revolution every 20 years or so" (not a direct quote but it was something like that). But by god you better WIN. So when I see people (um, democrats) like Bernie saying FREE COLLEGE FOR ALL, and wipe out all student loan debt, the only way that's gonna get PAID for is by going back to that kind of tax system. It won't be SOAK the rich, it will be STRIP the rich and nationalize ALL their assets and they STILL won't get enough to pay for it all.

And to top it off, the only charismatic guy they really have on the democrats side is Buttiguig (or whatever his name is, the gay guy). Biden doesn't have a clue, Sanders is so far left he's ready to fall off the planet, Warren is too close to Bernie. YANG is at least somewhat sane. But is America ready for a gay president? I have no clue. I still don't know how the UCMJ is dealing with gays serving openly in the military. Is Sodomy still a crime? I know adultery still is.

Anyway, I haven't heard of any RETIRED cheating spouses pulled back on active duty to prosecute either of THOSE violations...lol.

And no, senators, congressmen, etc don't lose their retirement (which they get after serving just one term, mind you, for the rest of their lives) no matter even if they get jailed while IN office from what I've read. Odd that our civilian leadership isn't held to the same standards that THEY set for US, right? Their oughta be a LAW..lol

Dave

They need to do a better job of explaining it at enlistment

I think that USAR Officers and OTRA Officers remain in the Army of the United States, not the US Army (RA) upon getting retainer pay. Remember there are 3 Armies an Officer can be in, disregarding Guard Officers*, the USA (RA), the AUS (OTRA officers on active duty and retired) and the USAR (non active duty officers).

* Guard officers hold a Reserve Commission in their parent service.

Under Article 3, retired reservists would still subject to UCMJ action for offenses committed while they were on active duty or active duty for training.

1SG John Millan - I will not hazard to opine on the specific policies of Army reserve or NG units, but in the USMCR, UCMJ jurisdiction attaches from the 1st formation continuously throughout all consecutive drills until the final formation. Since the most common drill configuration is 4 drills, 2 each on Saturday and Sunday, that means UCMJ covers Saturday morning through Sunday afternoon...continuously, because the drills are simply stretched out to provide continuous duty status:

0700-1159, Sat AM
1200-2359, Sat PM
0000-1200, Sun AM
1201-1630, Sun PM
Or something similar, based on the CO's training plan for the weekend.

This provides CO's with UCMJ authority over their Marines during their entire training evolution...even if they are released to go on "liberty" back to a hotel, barracks, etc.

The CO has the authority to arrange and organize any combination of inactive duty for training (IDT) and active duty for training (ADT/AT) to accomplish their mission requirements for training each year. The DoD minimum for credit for a period of IDT in any given day is 2 hours...the USMCR requires 4 hours minimum for any IDT period, but the maximum can be 24 hours...i.e., the CO could -- if they so chose -- decide that each drill weekend would be worth only 2 periods of IDT, for 24 IDT across the months, but instead -- because perhaps of intense training requirements involved -- shift the additional 24 IDT to the summer, adding those at the rate of 2 per day to the existing 14 days (plus one day of travel) for the annual training...a total of 12 extra days of IDT plus the 14 days of AT = 26 consecutive days of training...etc. The flexibility of the reserve system is amazing! But of course, 98% of SELRES units will use a very standard schedule, and only a few will need to resort to maneuvering furiously to meet minimum training standards that exceed the 38 calendar days that the traditional schedule of 2 IDT per day + 14 training days of AT will provide...

Cheers! WKB

SGT Joseph Goldman
SGT Goldman, I'm a military retiree and a civilian police officer. Be very careful when you refer to military MP Personnel having any kind of enforcement rights outside of their Duty. USAR or even RA MPs are not civilian police officers and therefore do not have law enforcement authority outside of military installations. This is addressed in Posse Comitatus law. As for inside military installations, I have no knowledge.

However, that said, HR 218 does not apply to military personnel In any specialty to include MP. You must be civilian law enforcement and have civilian arrest Authority in order to qualify under HR 218. That said, laws do vary from state to state. Even in the goofy state of NJ, DOD police are federal law enforcement and they are permitted by state to carry firearms outside of military installations although department policy may state otherwise. However military police are not unless they are on duty performing a military police function.

Bottom line, just be very careful. Some states are notoriously anti firearms like NJ, NY and other northeastern states.