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This is the second article I have seen where real Soldiers were harassed as being stolen valor. Yes this Soldier is ate up, but at what point do you start making yourself and the service you represent look worse?
Another article had a female retiring and they harassed her on her Facebook page until she posted her DD214.
How far is too far? Are we just making it worse?
Another article had a female retiring and they harassed her on her Facebook page until she posted her DD214.
How far is too far? Are we just making it worse?
Posted in these groups: 
Stolen Valor
Stolen Valor
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 34
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A few thoughts:
- There is a difference between professional questioning and unprofessional confrontation. Seems ironic for a current/former military member to unprofessionally attack a suspected (but not proven) faker.
- There is a difference between engagement and harassment. Talking to a person when something does not look right is an engagement. Following that person in person with a video camera or on social media quickly turns into harassment.
- There is a difference between knowing facts and making assumptions. For example, many people wrongly assume that a female is not a veteran.
- We as a society used to analyze then decide but now we seem to decide then justify regardless of the facts or the missing analysis.
- Where is the line drawn and are we going too far on stolen valor? To me the answer goes to knowing the above differences and professionally applying them to a given situation.
- There is a difference between professional questioning and unprofessional confrontation. Seems ironic for a current/former military member to unprofessionally attack a suspected (but not proven) faker.
- There is a difference between engagement and harassment. Talking to a person when something does not look right is an engagement. Following that person in person with a video camera or on social media quickly turns into harassment.
- There is a difference between knowing facts and making assumptions. For example, many people wrongly assume that a female is not a veteran.
- We as a society used to analyze then decide but now we seem to decide then justify regardless of the facts or the missing analysis.
- Where is the line drawn and are we going too far on stolen valor? To me the answer goes to knowing the above differences and professionally applying them to a given situation.
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CW3 (Join to see)
I think the current issue lies with individuals wanting/needing the social media attention for themselves for "outing" a faker. The more energy poured into a video recording the more "likes" they receive for themselves and the higher the personal gratification, as if they have somehow done us all a favor.
I'm all for calling a fake when you see one, but we should do so with the same professionalism and tact that we would display if we were policing up one of our own. A professional and a leader wouldn't correct a newly enlisted solider in a PX by screaming and making a scene, what kind of example would that set? Fakers want to be part a profession that they will never know, so why not exude that professionalism if you really want to cut them down to size. After all, nobody yells at the booger eating 5 year old for dressing like his favorite super hero right?
I have on numerous occasion thanked certain businesses for asking to see ID before giving a military discount. I think an increased difficulty to get away with freebees helps to curb the desire for stolen valor.
I'm all for calling a fake when you see one, but we should do so with the same professionalism and tact that we would display if we were policing up one of our own. A professional and a leader wouldn't correct a newly enlisted solider in a PX by screaming and making a scene, what kind of example would that set? Fakers want to be part a profession that they will never know, so why not exude that professionalism if you really want to cut them down to size. After all, nobody yells at the booger eating 5 year old for dressing like his favorite super hero right?
I have on numerous occasion thanked certain businesses for asking to see ID before giving a military discount. I think an increased difficulty to get away with freebees helps to curb the desire for stolen valor.
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CCMSgt (Join to see)
Agreed on all counts. We all lose when we confront people like this, ESPECIALLY in public.
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In many cases we are making it worse. We are seeing people act very unprofessionally to point out that someone else is acting the fool. But how much of a fool do you look like if you are standing in the middle of the mall yelling at some idiot who just came from the Army/Navy store wearing the newest ribbon to be issued?
This is why I continue to say, if you are going to confront someone you suspect of such a thing like Stolen Valor, the burden is on you to do a few things. First, have your facts right. Don't go in with guns firing without knowing all the facts. Secondly, do it in a manner that reflects the high level of professionalism that the military is known for. Walk up to the person and talk with them. Maintain a level head. Yes, it boils my blood to see these idiots out there but I don't want to make myself, the Army, my fellow Veterans, and the units I have been assigned to look like idiots too.
This is why I continue to say, if you are going to confront someone you suspect of such a thing like Stolen Valor, the burden is on you to do a few things. First, have your facts right. Don't go in with guns firing without knowing all the facts. Secondly, do it in a manner that reflects the high level of professionalism that the military is known for. Walk up to the person and talk with them. Maintain a level head. Yes, it boils my blood to see these idiots out there but I don't want to make myself, the Army, my fellow Veterans, and the units I have been assigned to look like idiots too.
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CPT (Join to see)
Agreed. A level headed approach would be more sensible. The yelling just escalates the tension, making the situation worse. Some of the best encounters I've seen were ones where the vet or servicemember actually talked to them in a cool, methodical manner until they gradually expose all the inconsistencies and then can call them out. But it's really tough to distinguish when you don't have ID to back up who they say they are. I say the burden of proof shifts over to them if they are in uniform and are making claims.
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This will stop as soon as the "make em famous" phase goes away. You have sites on FB who go the extra mile to "out" people, but in the end in some cases, are "outing" the wrong people. I remember one in particular that called out an old retired Marine who was wearing his dress blues on planes. He was videotaped and clowned on until the family stepped in and it was shown this retired Marine SNCO was in fact a TRUE Marine, and he had dementia. Every award on his uniform was his, just in the wrong order. Did anyone apologize? No. We're taking "outing" to levels that are unessicary and in some cases extremely unprofessional or contradictory. Leaders should be the ones correcting these troops, but it's easier to look the other way and laugh than to be the LEADER and tell these troops that you're actually crossing the line and making the service look worse than the stolen valor offender.
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Absolutely. The folks who call them out start looking worse than the posers when they get belligerent like this guy. He has the poser dead to right, but still some tactfulness is needed.
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Military bearing is a two-way street. Acting the fool because someone else did so first does not fit the soldiers' profile to me.
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I think most need to back the &*#@ off if they are not sure as they are messing with real service personnel. There was an older gentleman, a 75 year old Vietnam Vet who serve in the Marines from 1958 to 1964, who was harassed by another service member(?) AND a policeman for the same, and was asked to leave the area!!! He was totally legit and a Vietnam Veteran for goodness sake!!! This was blamed on a police officer, but it was started by someone believed to be active duty or military affiliated.
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2015/06/harrisburg_artsfest_veteran_st.html
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2015/06/harrisburg_artsfest_veteran_st.html
Harrisburg police officer wrongly accuses veteran, 75, of 'stolen valor'
Robert D. Ford, of Marysville, served in the Marines beginning in 1958. He has remained active in veterans issues since his honorable discharge in 1964. He was shocked when a Harrisburg police officer called him a "fake" at ArtsFest on Memorial Day. PennLive confirmed his military service.
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SrA (Join to see)
That story is terrible! Its awful to treat anyone like that but to do it to someone in their 70's is just cruel.
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Regardless, there is no excuse for arguing in public, what does the Creed of the NCO say "No one is more professional than I?"
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Couldn't hear the whole thing, but stated SPC rank was on upside down, not a good start, and who doesn't travel with CAC? Did the SFC show his? I'm all for calling out stolen valor, but still need to represent us as a professional organization if doing so.
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SPC Robert Patrick
I agree 1SG. And honestly if I was in this SFC's shoes I would have perceived a possible attempt at stolen valor with as ate up as this soldier was. But I would have attempted to handle in a much better manner than the SFC's did. You still need to maintain appropriate military bearing.
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The whole Stolen Valor is going too far. If you're going to make an on the spot correction, DO IT. No need to videotape it for cool points. This "Soldier" is ate up, but the SFC is just as bad in this instance for loosing his bearing. And asking for a CAC card? Most Soldiers I know would ask for proper identification, not a CAC (yes I know they're the same). You're a SNCO, and should know how to properly correct people, and conduct yourself in a professional manner at all times.
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There are definitely some instances of going too far. When in doubt I always assume someone is just really bad at putting on the uniform, not impersonating. I still try to correct it, but we need to be careful.
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