Posted on Jun 15, 2015
Army Commander requires troops to wear ACUs with no badges/combat patches?
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What is RP"s thoughts on this "extreme makeover" Army edition?
http://m.gazette.com/fort-carson-colonel-makes-uniform-adjustment-during-training/article/1553718?custom_click=rss
http://m.gazette.com/fort-carson-colonel-makes-uniform-adjustment-during-training/article/1553718?custom_click=rss
Edited 10 y ago
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 81
I agree....BAD IDEA. Maybe because I have cool guy badges but still I think bad Idea.
As a private, I was inspired to attend schools and Looked up to my leaders BECAUSE of them. This guy is AIRBORNE, that guy has a CIB, WOW that guy has an EIB....That Medic knows his stuff...Look a CMB or a EFMB...
It is a good thing for young troops to aspire to the EIB or the Jump Wings or the Oft Coveted Bullwinkle Badge. It has worked since before World War Two...don't fix what ain't broken
As a private, I was inspired to attend schools and Looked up to my leaders BECAUSE of them. This guy is AIRBORNE, that guy has a CIB, WOW that guy has an EIB....That Medic knows his stuff...Look a CMB or a EFMB...
It is a good thing for young troops to aspire to the EIB or the Jump Wings or the Oft Coveted Bullwinkle Badge. It has worked since before World War Two...don't fix what ain't broken
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If you really want to put everyone on an equal footing have them remove their rank.
The fact of the matter is that while were all one team, we are not all on equal footing. Soldiers earned those combat patches and they should be encouraged to wear them. Acknowledging someones accomplishments doesn't lessen my own. I don't think this is a good idea.
The fact of the matter is that while were all one team, we are not all on equal footing. Soldiers earned those combat patches and they should be encouraged to wear them. Acknowledging someones accomplishments doesn't lessen my own. I don't think this is a good idea.
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He won't be a commander for long.. Soldiers have earned those, who do he think he is to change the Reg.??
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TSgt Joshua Copeland
MSG (Join to see), from testimony here on RP from folks that have known this guy, it sounds like this is SOP for him.
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SGT Richard H.
I kind of doubt the notion that "he won't be a commander for long". He's been one for 20 years, and he's damn good at it.
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
He's not actually changing the reg from what others have posted. He's using discretionary authority within the Reg during a Training evolution. Were he doing this in a Garrison environment, that would be going against the Reg.
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SGT Hector Rojas, AIGA, SHA
Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS AR 670-1 gives him authority to designate what uniform to wear, as in ACUs instead of IPFUs, or sanitized ACUs for combatives as opposed to regular ACUs....or A2CUs instead of ACUs, etc.
The same AR 670-1 explicitly states however, that Commanders WILL NOT restrict or discourage soldiers from wearing what they are authorized by the same regulation to wear.
There's no discretionary authority to tell his soldiers to remove patches and badges they've earned and are authorized to wear.
The same AR 670-1 explicitly states however, that Commanders WILL NOT restrict or discourage soldiers from wearing what they are authorized by the same regulation to wear.
There's no discretionary authority to tell his soldiers to remove patches and badges they've earned and are authorized to wear.
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This commander should be happy that he is in the Army and not the Air Force... His order would be illegal in the AF (to a certain degree anyway). By Air Force Regulations, Chaplain, and all flight wings WILL BE WORN. All others are optional. I miss my combat patch from my old Army days....and I was pretty sore about having to take it off (and still am to a certain degree) when I joined the AF. I found a loophole when I deployed to Afghanistan....I wore ACU/FRACU.... it is an ARMY uniform that I had to apply an AF Tape to.... but because it was an Army Uniform, I was able to wear my Combat Patch again from Desert Storm!
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TSgt Joshua Copeland
Maj Chris Nelson, actually it is all "wings" not just "flight" So those space and cyber wings are mandatory too. A friend of mine was a cyber officer, got out, became a nurse and came back in. They get weird looks when the nurse comes in with cyber wings on (because they HAVE to wear them).
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TSgt Joshua Copeland
Actually, Jump wings are NOT considered Aeronautical Badges per the AFI, but they do rate to be place above all Occupational badges (but below Chaplain, Aero, Cybers, and Space Wing). The "Pocket Rocket" with Wreath is also a mandatory badge. AA is not an aero badge either, same with HALO.
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Maj Chris Nelson
I don't wear any of those, so had never had reason to actually LOOK. Thank you for the info!!
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SGT (Join to see)
I think that if a soldier has combat unit insignia Patches and badges that they have the right to wear them.
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That's fantastic! I respect the idea behind it and I find this funny because I posted a similar topic not long ago. I personally don't think we should wear it in our combat uniform. Only in our dress blues. If someone needs to know your accomplishments they could, oh I don't know, maybe talk to you?!
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SGT Hector Rojas, AIGA, SHA
CW2 Stephen Pate , I'm trying to reconcile the violation of an Army Regulation versus your endorsement of it.
Funny idea or not, it bothers me that a BDE CDR decides to violate a regulation and suddenly it is ok.
Regular soldiers violating regulations get in trouble every 6.6 seconds.
Funny idea or not, it bothers me that a BDE CDR decides to violate a regulation and suddenly it is ok.
Regular soldiers violating regulations get in trouble every 6.6 seconds.
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CW2 Stephen Pate
Please explain how this is a violation of a regulation. I haven't looked but last time I checked the commander dictates the uniform.
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There have been several responses stating that this was a "PC" move on his part. I disagree somewhat; I believe that it's less about sparing feelings of new soldiers and more about reminding those with tabs/badges/patches that they can't just rest on their laurels. You might be an Airborne Ranger Sniper Expert Infantryman... that's awesome, but what are you doing TODAY to earn the respect of your subordinates and peers?
Also, from my understanding, this is only for wear in the field.
Also, from my understanding, this is only for wear in the field.
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SGT Hector Rojas, AIGA, SHA
Regardless of environment, it is still a violation of an Army Regulation, is it not?
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CPT (Join to see)
SGT Hector Rojas, AIGA, SHA Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the way I've always understood it, commanders can add to the rules and regulations, but not subtract from them.
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i got messed up in basic, but honestly, i have to say this, this guy has a great idea, they are letting the enemy into our military, the less you show where you have been, the less of a target you will be, and honestly, the more valued troops know each other, and thats what counts. showing all that on your sleeves, yes, it's a badge of honor, but it can also be a target painted on you, and i see where this man is coming from. just putting on the uniform is really a target, but even more so with the more medals you have, as they think some really weird stuff, along with the fact that hey, if you were a sniper, and you took out the enemy colonel, what kind of congratulations would you receive from your peers? think about it.
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I've missed whatever point he was trying to make. So do I wear all my gear in my DA photo? What about promotion boards? I can see him making this a personal choice, but I disagree with the unilateral decisions. It's within his rights, of course, but this choice seems arbitrary and personal.
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I did always think that a Soldier's uniform looked a bit like that of a North Korean General's! :)
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I think it's a great idea. Ditch the badges and tabs except on dress uniform. Your ERB/ORB has all that stuff on it. Too many tab chasers and arrogant idiots out there that think that is all that is important. Marine corps have the right idea, except for the wings and bubble (however most don't even wear them.) lay low and be professional, let their work show who they really are, no a bunch of "I completed an army school" flash
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So...if you had all those badges sewn onto all your uniforms, is the Colonel paying to have the stuff put back on if you have to take it off with a seam ripper or is he going to go with the usual "clothing allowance" justification? Not to mention you are going to see where the badges used to be at on the uniform due to fading and where the stitches were (Remember BDU's when you changed unit patches?) I don't have any special skill badges, but this idea seems ridiculous. Just because someone is a commander, they don't have to "create a legacy."
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SFC (Join to see)
Velcro for patches, but badges are either pinned on or sewn on. If you sew on your name tapes and rank, then all badges must be sewn.
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Everywhere I have been, the field/training was just like a deployment, only the cadre wore their love me badges. Everyone else was basically sterile
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Commanders can do whatever they want. I don't mean that in a derogatory manner, it's just true. I've never been under two different commands where things have ever been the same. It's how they distinguish themselves form others.
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I see pro and con to both sides of this.
I can see where the new troops would look to the experienced members for guidance. I can also see where the CO wants to emphasize character as much as "back in the day" stuff.
I've seen more seasoned troops get complacent using their past achievements to carry them through. I've also seen untested troops straight from training units run circles around the "old guys" when it comes to newer technology and/or tactics.
I can see where the new troops would look to the experienced members for guidance. I can also see where the CO wants to emphasize character as much as "back in the day" stuff.
I've seen more seasoned troops get complacent using their past achievements to carry them through. I've also seen untested troops straight from training units run circles around the "old guys" when it comes to newer technology and/or tactics.
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Training this month, means that the less experience soldiers learn from the more experience soldiers, so now no one can tell who has the experience. Looks like the CO lacks experience too.
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SGT Richard H.
I've known the CO since he was a 2LT. He has plenty of experience and a pretty impressive resume. I promise he's removing a heck of a lot more from his own uniform than most.
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I have mixed feelings about this issue . . . .
In my previous unit (an infantry company), I didn't wear any of my badges on my uniform because I thought it was a hassle to put them on and because I didn't like the attitude certain badge hunters had. I put them on only once -- at a family function when we were getting ready to deploy, because I wanted to reassure the soldiers' loved ones that the soldiers were in experienced and capable hands.
However, when I did an interstate transfer to another unit (a military police company), I decided to go ahead and put them on. And, I found that I didn't have to prove myself all over again. People saw that I'd served overseas and that I'd seen combat. And, they knew where I stood in terms of tactical and technical expertise. Sometimes, I'd get deferred to. Sometimes, I'd get assigned additional training tasks. But, they had a better idea of what they had (me and others) as resources amongst the NCO Corps.
I can understand why a commander might want to limit the wearing of badges if we're talking about the former issue -- the attitude that certain badge hunters have. And, he probably can't put it quite like that. However, the rationale that he used to explain his decision is a bit weak.
At this point, we've been deployed overseas quite a bit and everyone has had the chance to go on a deployment. And, if you haven't gone on one, I think that says something. So, I don't think the opinion of someone who has stayed home every time the unit was deployed should be given the same weight as the opinion of someone who has been overseas several time. And, the sanitized uniform does that -- putting everyone into a level of equal obscurity.
In my previous unit (an infantry company), I didn't wear any of my badges on my uniform because I thought it was a hassle to put them on and because I didn't like the attitude certain badge hunters had. I put them on only once -- at a family function when we were getting ready to deploy, because I wanted to reassure the soldiers' loved ones that the soldiers were in experienced and capable hands.
However, when I did an interstate transfer to another unit (a military police company), I decided to go ahead and put them on. And, I found that I didn't have to prove myself all over again. People saw that I'd served overseas and that I'd seen combat. And, they knew where I stood in terms of tactical and technical expertise. Sometimes, I'd get deferred to. Sometimes, I'd get assigned additional training tasks. But, they had a better idea of what they had (me and others) as resources amongst the NCO Corps.
I can understand why a commander might want to limit the wearing of badges if we're talking about the former issue -- the attitude that certain badge hunters have. And, he probably can't put it quite like that. However, the rationale that he used to explain his decision is a bit weak.
At this point, we've been deployed overseas quite a bit and everyone has had the chance to go on a deployment. And, if you haven't gone on one, I think that says something. So, I don't think the opinion of someone who has stayed home every time the unit was deployed should be given the same weight as the opinion of someone who has been overseas several time. And, the sanitized uniform does that -- putting everyone into a level of equal obscurity.
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I don't ever wear badges or anything in the field, but for something that I earned, if in Garrison, I want to wear it. But it is ultimately the CDR's call. The whole welcoming new blood thing is bit stupid to me, I remember coming in and seeing the badges and tabs my NCOs wore. I was thinking, "One day, I'll earn that."
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1SG (Join to see)
AR 670-1
paragragh 2-6:
"f. Commanders will not require individuals to purchase optional uniform items. Likewise, they will not restrict or discourage them from wearing optional uniform items authorized by this regulation, except in those instances where uniformity is required, such as parades or formations."
paragragh 2-6:
"f. Commanders will not require individuals to purchase optional uniform items. Likewise, they will not restrict or discourage them from wearing optional uniform items authorized by this regulation, except in those instances where uniformity is required, such as parades or formations."
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A bit more like the USMC approach to uniforms. All for the team, less about "me."
It probably also makes starting conversations just a bit more difficult....
It probably also makes starting conversations just a bit more difficult....
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BS, you earn those patches you wear them. Regardless of what some crazed CDR says, it’s a shame the CDR tries to take away the the honors and privileges a Soldier has earned.
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