Posted on May 5, 2014
Army Service Ribbon - Should it be discontinued?
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The Army Service Ribbon (ASR) was established by the Secretary of the Army on 10 April 1981 as announced in Department of the Army General Order 15, dated 10 October 1990. It is awarded to members of the U.S. Army for successful completion of initial entry training.
Enlisted Soldiers will be awarded this ribbon upon successful completion of their initial MOS producing course. For those enlisted Soldiers assigned a MOS based on civilian or other service acquired skills, this ribbon will be awarded on honorable completion of 4 months active service.
Enlisted Soldiers will be awarded this ribbon upon successful completion of their initial MOS producing course. For those enlisted Soldiers assigned a MOS based on civilian or other service acquired skills, this ribbon will be awarded on honorable completion of 4 months active service.
Awards
Ribbons
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 106
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Senior soldiers receive MSM's when they PCS, and BSM's when they deploy because of their rank. It's easy for them to say do away with it. Lower enlisted soldiers do not have this luxury. Let's not take something else from them.
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SPC (Join to see)
That's true Sir, there's a lot of qualifying periods for NDSM. I only mention it like this because a buddy of mine knows a former recruit that purposely failed out and tried showing off an NDSM at a bar. However, according to said buddy the former recruit did end up getting into a bar fight with a Vet about the medal and his stories.
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SFC Harry H.
I was just about to actually comment on the MSM and BSM. I remember when we were about to come home from Afghanistan. Award time... I remember over hearing our J3 SGM talking to the MAJ in J1 plans, about how he is being forced to recommend our E7 at the time a BSM. Then the convo went on to talk about how BSMs were basically handed out to all Senior Soldiers. What great accomplishment I was thinking. You was given a very prestigious award for being "in country" as a Senior Soldier. I went on from that point on to think of BSMs as BS awards. Unless they had the "V" in the middle. The award is over awarded. As well as MSMs.
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MAJ Samuel Weber
No one says “lower enlisted” anymore, better to say “Junior Enlisted”. We don’t use the term “lower NCOs”, right?
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Sure you just get it for completing training, and sure you get a GCM after 3 years, but look at like this. Not everyone makes it through Basic and AIT. Those that do, have not only earned the title of Soldier but have demonstrated the drive to push themselves. I say keep it, it's a part of our history and honestly, there are a lot more important things the military needs to worry about.
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SGT Ben Keen
No you can not be a NCO without being MOSQed. Coming in at a Speciailist because of schooling or whatever but you can't continue up the ranks without completing your MOS, at least that I know of. The Army at least has programs in place to deal with Soldiers who cannot pass their APFT. These Soldiers are often removed from service or placed on special PT programs to help them achieve a passing score.
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It does serve a purpose to the Soldiers. It signifies that they have successfully completed their initial training. It is the first ribbon that a Soldier earns and gives them something to put on their dress uniform. Sure as time progresses they earn more ribbons for this that and the other thing. It is still a part of our history.
What really needs to happen is tougher guidelines need to be followed for current awards. It is my humble opinion that some awards have been degraded during deployments when they are based on rank, not by what they actually did.
What really needs to happen is tougher guidelines need to be followed for current awards. It is my humble opinion that some awards have been degraded during deployments when they are based on rank, not by what they actually did.
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SPC (Join to see)
SGT Craig Northacker - Funny thing actually the Marines historically borrowed their uniform form the Army with added bits from the Navy. Unlike the Army however the Marines stuck wit it and never changed it. They said hey this looks good let's keep it, nuff said. The Army on the other hand...
I hope we stick with our new blues, has a root in the old Civil War blues that used to be worn. This one looks good, better than the greens in my opinion. If we stuck with it, no problems.
I hope we stick with our new blues, has a root in the old Civil War blues that used to be worn. This one looks good, better than the greens in my opinion. If we stuck with it, no problems.
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CPT (Join to see)
I am not sure that what was for years was formal attire for Company Grade officers and below should become our daily Class A uniform. Besides too many people believe it is a Canadian Air Force or a new French iniform < GOD FORBID >!
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CPT (Join to see)
LT Shannon R - That is why I am so impressed when I observe a Marine with more than a single row.
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Keep it, but not because it preserves history...as I am reminded as we celebrate the birth of the soldier that has become CSM (Join to see) , those of us that started as Privates or junior enlisted, especially in the 80's and 90's only had that one, multi-colored piece of cloth on our ill-fitting uniform. I flew home from basic with only the service ribbon. We all played it down when we were at the Atlanta airport, and my dad could have laughed because of what he wore on his chest, but no one did. Its had symbolism, that I completed the first step of being a soldier. I was in the Army.
Plenty of great historical quotes from some accomplished leaders on the effect of ribbons/medals on morale. Most don't cost us anything; not much harm in keeping it and plenty of enjoyment seeing a new graduate walking around proudly with our least favorite ribbon.
Sometimes it's all about perspective.
Plenty of great historical quotes from some accomplished leaders on the effect of ribbons/medals on morale. Most don't cost us anything; not much harm in keeping it and plenty of enjoyment seeing a new graduate walking around proudly with our least favorite ribbon.
Sometimes it's all about perspective.
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1SG (Join to see)
Sir, this is the one that comes to mind:
"A soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of colored ribbon."
Napoleon Bonaparte
"A soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of colored ribbon."
Napoleon Bonaparte
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1LT William Clardy
Let's not forget that that "least favorite ribbon" still represents achieving more than 99 percent of the general population will ever attempt, 1SG John Millan.
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I think the Corps has the least amount of awards and award them restrictively. You really know that when you get to a joint unit and everybody of lesser grade has a bigger stack then you although you have twice the time in service and experiences. I think there are many awards that can be done without to include training/PME ribbons. A re-evaluation of the criteria for awards should be done as well, these bronze star summary of actions and citations I come across are the same as those I find on LCpl's certificate of commendations.
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GySgt (Join to see)
CPT (Join to see) Air Force hands down are the worst offenders, it would be a toss up between the Army and the Navy for who is after that. At the same time, Ive seen some Marines receive awards that would make a whole formation lose bearing after hearing a citation that did not meet the requirements for the award.
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CPT (Join to see)
For the discretionary awards I think in every service branch it comes down to the leadership at each level holding the process to the correct standard. I've seen several examples on either extreme (unnecessarily stingy, and frivolously loose) and I've also seen leaders who get it right by awarding at the appropriate levels based on merit and accomplishments.
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1SG (Join to see)
CPT (Join to see) I don't have an opinion one way or the other regarding the ASR, but I disagree wholeheartedly on the NCOPDR. It, like the OSR, tells a story at a glance.
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LCDR (Join to see)
GySgt (Join to see) - Respectfully, and I realize The possibility of bias, I’d say the Navy is closer to the Marines Criteria than Army (USAF, Army, Navy, USCG, USMC, from most awards//least difficulty to least awards given/most difficult criteria). I’ve seen Army O-3s get Commendation medals as an impact award, and O-4s with MSMs as an EOT. In the Navy, I’ve seen junior O-5s get Comms, and mid-range hot-shot O-6s get MSMs as an EOT. Likewise, EOT, Army E-7s with MSMs, but Navy E-8s getting Comms. USCG seems to be more difficult/strict than Navy, and Marines.....seems like a Comm w/ V for y’all is a Bronze Star with V for everyone else.
Course, this is only visual experience of one person. Actual reality may vary.
Course, this is only visual experience of one person. Actual reality may vary.
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I feel that we have too many ribbons for just breathing as it is! Ribbons/awards/medals should be earned. Some will say that by serving in the Army you 'earn' the ASR, in my opinion, you earn your uniform by serving! Just my opinion...I would say $.02....but probably not worth that much...
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1SG (Join to see)
Gotta love those "fly by" down votes. At least have the courtesy to explain yourself and why you voted it down
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CW2 (Join to see)
It was my first down votes too...I think I am going to cry...*sniff*...ok....I am over it now...
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SrA Brian Walker
Personally having served in two branches I will tell you this, there IS a reason for the ASR, as well as the USAF training ribbon. Between the Army and Air Force you can run into people who have served in two or more branches. The branch specific awards for training denote your overall "story of service". Now, what should change is allowing these ribbons to be worn between branches. As a soldier in the Army I was not authorized to wear the USAF training ribbon even though I earned it with my prior service.
I was always taught that the ribbon/awards that you wear on your chest tell the story of your service. I served for 4 years in the USAF before the army and the ONLY award that I have that is AF unique that was allowed for me to wear on my ARMY uniform was a unit award which does not necessarily tell MY story.
Do I think that the awards are being given out to readily? Yes, I mean lets be honest if you give every soldier an AAM for putting together a briefing/skit/presentation during a safety stand down then you basically are giving them an award for doing their job, not really making an achievement that shows exemplary performance of their duties.
I was always taught that the ribbon/awards that you wear on your chest tell the story of your service. I served for 4 years in the USAF before the army and the ONLY award that I have that is AF unique that was allowed for me to wear on my ARMY uniform was a unit award which does not necessarily tell MY story.
Do I think that the awards are being given out to readily? Yes, I mean lets be honest if you give every soldier an AAM for putting together a briefing/skit/presentation during a safety stand down then you basically are giving them an award for doing their job, not really making an achievement that shows exemplary performance of their duties.
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SPC (Join to see)
Didn't know USN, USMC, and USCG couldn't wear the ASR. I had a SGT former Navy that the Army lets him wear his ribbons from the Navy and even a badge.
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I believe in Hal Moore's theory that only first place trophies should be awarded or accepted. To me the 'Thanks for coming' ribbon is nothing but a shameless attempt at giving a participation trophy.
The title of soldier and the branch insignia earned upon completion of AIT/OSUT are enough positive reinforcement.
The title of soldier and the branch insignia earned upon completion of AIT/OSUT are enough positive reinforcement.
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As much as I agree with not requiring or needing to be recognized for simply doing our job (attending and completing basic) I believe that the morale instilled in earning this first ribbon in the Army is a quick and positive booster to a young Soldier. To some this ribbon means little or nothing, but to others it can be their first ribbon to a long stack in the future. I say keep it not only for the short history but mainly for recognizing those 1% upon their entry.
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I would vote to keep it....as a cross-over (Army to Air Force), it is the few "gimme" ribbons that help people understand that I was in the Army before I was in the Air Force. Ribbons tell a story...sometimes I DO feel that they are handed out to easily, but the Army Service Ribbon and NCO Development ribbon on my rack clearly tells AF members that I am a prior Army NCO without me having to mention it (if I have to say it, it won't be told...if they are savy enough to read the ribbons, they will know the story and may ask questions that are based on the story, which is a much better conversation!).
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Maj Chris Nelson
Great question! I am authorized to wear any federally recognized award regardless of branch, that I have been awarded...when I was in the Army Guard, I had some state level awards that had to go bye bye when I went active duty as they were not federally recognized. The one thing that I am NOT allowed to wear in an AF uniform is any combat patch. I am authorized to wear 3rd Army when in an Army uniform, but none in the AF Uniform. When deployed to Afghanistan, When I was wearing my FRACUs, I would wear the combat patch, even tho my affiliation tag said AF...it was an Army uniform, so therefore authorized.
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Cpl Christopher Allen-Shinn
SCPO: I got my Marine records corrected recently after petitioning HQMC for a corrected DD214. I only asked for a NUC & Meritorious Mast that I knew I'd earned, but ended up with corrected records that reflected 2 NUCs and a couple of other authorized medals that I have never been presented but are now reflected on my corrected DD214. You should always ask for that Marine GCM if you rate it so that you can wear it proudly!
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CPO (Join to see)
Good to see you can screw up and make Warrant. There's hope for me yet. I agree, I think all our service branches should go through what we put on our uniforms and thin them down.
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CMSgt (Join to see)
Yes, you can wear the ASR on an Air Force uniform. The only major difference is that unit awards are worn on the wearer’s right of Army uniforms and on the left of Air Force uniforms. In the naval services, you cannot wear any ribbons that don’t have a Naval equivalent. Hence, you can wear a GCM, Achievement, or MUA from another service, just not the Training/Service ribbons or NCO education / PME ribbons.
As for the ASR, as a prior Army who is now in the AF, I too enjoy wearing my ASR and ANCOPD ribbons. It reminds the viewer that I started at another branch...
As for the ASR, as a prior Army who is now in the AF, I too enjoy wearing my ASR and ANCOPD ribbons. It reminds the viewer that I started at another branch...
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I would have it change. I have seen Soldiers graduate basic and AIT who cannot pass an APFT or ht/wt. I do not know how it suddenly became acceptable to not enforce standards at the start. How does that teach Soldiers standards if they refuse to enforce them at the start? It is an uphill battle particuarly for the Reserves and National Guard as we only see them once a month. How am I to ensure that they suddenly meet the standards that were lower at the entry level? Either enforce the standards there or only award the ASR to those who actually pass everything at basic and AIT.
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CPT (Join to see)
SSgt Joseph Baptist - I reviewed your page and could not locate any reference to your having attended any type of Military Parachutist training. I also saw no reference to your having successfully attended Ranger School though I have known several USAF NCO's and officer's who have successfully completed both.
That being the case may I suggest that you have no first hand experience of the subject upon which you are commenting. Your comment is denigrating to everyone who attended Ranger School and Airborne Basic, whether successfully or not. I served alongside USAF PJs, and CCTs. They talked the talk and walked the walk. They were the best in the world at what they did. That is a far cry from monitoring the urinalysis waiting area! When we all turn our attention to the various method's by which airmen/women attempt to evade "pissing hot", please insert yourself at any point in that conversation.
That being the case may I suggest that you have no first hand experience of the subject upon which you are commenting. Your comment is denigrating to everyone who attended Ranger School and Airborne Basic, whether successfully or not. I served alongside USAF PJs, and CCTs. They talked the talk and walked the walk. They were the best in the world at what they did. That is a far cry from monitoring the urinalysis waiting area! When we all turn our attention to the various method's by which airmen/women attempt to evade "pissing hot", please insert yourself at any point in that conversation.
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CPT (Join to see)
SSgt Joseph Baptist - To all of my Air Force friends, please look away ... this is not meant for you ....
I know several SPs and none of them denigrate other services. You need to confine yourself to commenting on aspects of your particular service (for example upon the "Air Force Training Ribbon"), or at the very least showing less contempt for another service.
As an Army Officer I will concede that there is devaluation of the award system in our service. The problem here is that too many personal decorations are awarded to "favorites" of the command, and not necessarily upon the most deserving. This leaves line commanders, NCOs and enlisted soldiers mostly out in the cold. Were decorations awarded in the way the original regulation stipulated, this would not be such a problem
IMHO the Navy seems to be just about right for the active duty side but far too tight upon the USNR side. The USMC is far too stringent even on the active duty side of the house. A Bronze Star on a Marine especially with a "V" device, makes me want to stand at attention. However he down side of being too stringent is that many exceptional Navy and Marine personnel receive no recognition at all. This can translate to the inability to be competitive at promotion time. The worse thing I can imagine is for a "bean counting" REMF to be promoted to a combat command billet.
I will not make the final comment here. I will allow some of your Air Force colleagues and others have that honor ...
http://www.flyingsquadron.com/forums/topic/478-why-af-decorations-are-worthless/
https://taskandpurpose.com/the-military-needs-to-get-a-handle-on-its-awards-process
I know several SPs and none of them denigrate other services. You need to confine yourself to commenting on aspects of your particular service (for example upon the "Air Force Training Ribbon"), or at the very least showing less contempt for another service.
As an Army Officer I will concede that there is devaluation of the award system in our service. The problem here is that too many personal decorations are awarded to "favorites" of the command, and not necessarily upon the most deserving. This leaves line commanders, NCOs and enlisted soldiers mostly out in the cold. Were decorations awarded in the way the original regulation stipulated, this would not be such a problem
IMHO the Navy seems to be just about right for the active duty side but far too tight upon the USNR side. The USMC is far too stringent even on the active duty side of the house. A Bronze Star on a Marine especially with a "V" device, makes me want to stand at attention. However he down side of being too stringent is that many exceptional Navy and Marine personnel receive no recognition at all. This can translate to the inability to be competitive at promotion time. The worse thing I can imagine is for a "bean counting" REMF to be promoted to a combat command billet.
I will not make the final comment here. I will allow some of your Air Force colleagues and others have that honor ...
http://www.flyingsquadron.com/forums/topic/478-why-af-decorations-are-worthless/
https://taskandpurpose.com/the-military-needs-to-get-a-handle-on-its-awards-process
Why AF decorations are worthless
I just read this article in the Air Force times by two SSgts at Kirkuk. It further proves the Air Force demeans medals by giving a commendation medal to some A1C who helps clean up after a holiday party while guys who are putting their lives on the line cant get valid recognition. ------------- I...
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CPT (Join to see)
SSgt Joseph Baptist - Thank you. Since you provide no schools that you attended as a "soldier" and that you wound up in the ANG, I will assume that you were a complete non-hacker in the Army. You missed that I am ARNG. Come on, you know it's true :) "Methinks you protesteth too much" for it not to be the truth. Wow, you do show an amazing paucity of expressive words.
This isn't fair to you. I am finished with our argument.
This isn't fair to you. I am finished with our argument.
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CPT (Join to see)
SSgt Joseph Baptist - I must beg your forgiveness for the nasty personal comments that I directed towards you. This is not an excuse but you became the victim of my personal post conflict issues. They manifests themselves today in what you have experienced from my postings. No, I am neither a fraud or "bad man", but from times I can behave in a very bad and unchristian manner. This is the first time that I have received a down vote that I heartily deserved.
WCF+
"first among sinners"
WCF+
"first among sinners"
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