Can the Chain of Command confiscate a Soldier's POV keys?

In everything I have come across, it is not within the rights of the unit to confiscate the keys, however it is within the units right to restrict driving privileges.

<p>This just proves how the PC police and lawyers have changed things for the worse. It used to be that Soldiers to include prior service SMs were not allowed to have access to their POVs while in AIT, while they may be allowed to drive to the AIT site to attend school, they were not allowed to drive, with maybe being given an exception by 1SG for a weekend pass and that depended on their current school grade and APFT for the schoolhouse. </p><p><br></p><p>As an MP, I knew plenty of units that would call the PMO and ask if it was ok to take a Soldiers keys from them, and we would give them examples of when it was valid, suspected under the influence of drugs or alcohol, expired registration or insurance, failed POV inspection; and all of these authorized key confiscation and securing of keys with either 1SG/CO. But again because someone along the way complained to their congressman or family, the PC police had the regulations changed to try and claim that the unit/CO would be responsible for any damage even if it couldn't be proved towards any member of the unit, just because they had the keys. Another sign of softness coming in and taking precedence over doing what is right to enforce standards.</p>

<p>I went through a similar situation in my unit. I just got to the unit and I was placed on Rear D for the birth of my son. Anywho, I was acting company 1SG and I had a soldier who actually got into a motorcycle with no PPE. Fast forward ahead as he waits for his chapter and med board paperwork to go thru, doctor diagnoses him with headaches and orders him not to drive, not to mention he was busted for underage drinking and get his license suspened.&nbsp;He continues to drive without a license and gets a speeding ticket on post. He is then given a field grade Article 15, now he's a fuzzy awaiting a med board paperwork and he's now going on 6 months.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>With this particular soldier, it was totally legal because when I had to counsel him on what he was doing, I quickly found that he wasn't the brightest of the bunch. When I inherited him as a soldier, I looked at his packet and this PSG all the way up to the CO &amp; 1SG did everything to keep this kid out of trouble. Sadly to say, he thought he knew what was best</p>

Frankly I don't see the need. &nbsp;If you tell a Soldier not to drive, it should be the same as taking his keys. &nbsp;Soldiers have spare keys anyway. &nbsp;And when he drives, hurt that piggy bank.

While I was a 1SG, if we had a Soldier that had his driving priv. revoked, no insurance or expired lic. what we did was counsel the Soldier that he was not allowed to drive his car or bike in the counseling we put the number of miles he had on the car and had him park it the barracks or unit parking lot, and each morning and evening his NCOIC would check the miles and location of car. If the Soldier violated the counseling farther action was taken. UCMJ.

It is absolutely against the commands authority to take a SM's keys for issues like a PT test failure or expired insurance/registration. As a paralegal I have dealt with this issue more times than I can care to count. A POV is the private property of an individual therefore, unless the SM surrenders the keys to another individual, anyone in unauthorized possession of those keys can be charged with auto theft (technically speaking, but it has never happened to my knowledge). The same can be said for a cell phone and civilian clothes, two items taken quite frequently in a lot of units. A cell phone can only be confiscated, with a warrant, to an officer of the law, whether that be civilian or military. A commander has no authority or jurisdiction to do so. Again, if a SM surrenders the phone voluntarily, then that is perfectly fine. Otherwise, the search would fall under Unlawful Search and Seizure. As for civilian clothes, there are certain scenarios where you can and cannot withhold the use of. In basic and AIT, for example, it is the unit policy that dictates this clause as the status of the SM is in training. That being said, when a SM goes to a full time duty station, their commander, nor anyone in his stead, can remove the possession or revoke the wearing of civilian attire. I know this personally as I worked a case in which a BN CDR removed the civilian clothing of an individual pending a General Court-Martial. In doing so, she unlawfuly imprisoned him in restricting his freedoms as a US citizen to wear clothing of his choice. Upon sentencing at the actual court-martial the SM was awarded credit off of his sentence due to the restriction. Now this is merely an example but it is one that is more often than not awarded because units think that they are entitled to do so. A SM cannot be punished, in any capacity, prior to their official sentencing, whether it be as small as an article 15 or as large as a General Court-Martial. Doing so can and will alter the actual sentence than may be given at the official sentencing portion.

It is within the commanders right to restrict driving privileges and revoke pass privileges with due cause.&nbsp;

I'll tell you one thing. If a Soldier is drunk, and you let him drive away, you're going WISH you had taken those keys... Context and intent is everything...

Call Your Attorney (CYA). We had situation with a Soldier and his motorcycle. Legal said we cannot take his motorcycle keys because is personal property and we have no right to do so. Now his MSF Card was issued through a course sponsored by the Army, that we can take away until the Soldier attends the BRC course.&nbsp; Now with POV driving privileges, Counseling restricting the Soldier to drive for a period of time, example, AIT/IET Soldier received&nbsp; ticket for speeding on post 7 days of driving privileges suspended and have the Soldier complete accident avoidance training once again through ALMS or have him/her attend IMCOM Driving Training Local Hazards and intermediate driving training in order for the Soldier to be retrain on driver safety. Another example, Soldier POV registration is expired, vehicle is not registered on Post with Student DECAL,&nbsp;IET Sharp Policy reads that IET Soldier must meet certain requirements in order to have driving privilege such has&nbsp;having vehicle registered in the installation. Also the diver must&nbsp;be licensed, have it insured, etc..... The vehicle should be safe to drive, example&nbsp;20" crack on the windshield will make the vehicle unsafe to operate in the state of California, so the Soldier will be told not to drive. Now how we enforce this. We go outside with the Soldier and record the current vehicle mileage and annotate it in the counseling statement. that way we can spot check and ensure the vehicle mileage has not change. I can keep typing scenarios but I will get everyone board with me.

I can speak from a point of view in Germany. As a 1SG in Germany I had Soldiers that for one reason or another lost their driving privelages (yes it is a privelage in Germany) once that happened I had an NCO escort them to vehicle registration and de register their vehicle (as long as they didn't have a spouse). We could also confiscate the actual drivers liscense. I never took their keys though for the reasons you mentioned.

Context. You can't do it arbitrarily, but if a Soldier is drunk and getting into the drivers seat, you BETTER take those keys...

The only time I confiscated keys, as OOD, when a Marine was intoxicated. Was I on shaky ground, maybe... but nobody ever said anything about it the next day when they came to get their keys back.

I have heard of commands revoking a Marine's on-base driving privileges.

No. The Command Cannot confiscate private property. Keys are part of the POV. My previous command decided to take away motorcycle keys from a Soldier that was riding on pink shorts and flip flops out in town. Soldier walked straight to legal and the command received a call from legal telling them to give keys back. Now the Command was able to take the Soldiers MSF card because it was obtain through a class funded by the military. Legal refer to his motorcycle keys as private property.

I need an example for counseling for driving with an expired driver license

Hell, in 1979 when I went to Ft. Dix to attend Drill Sgt School, I'd arrived about 3 weeks before my class date.  I was assigned to my basic training company and for 3 weeks, I was what they called a hard hat.  Doing the job of a drill sgt, learing all I could.  Going home every night.  The first day of school was a Saturday and we were instructed to show up in PT gear.  Our first test was the PT test.  If you didn't pass you didn't go to school.   If you passed, that was the first of 112 tests you had to pass to graduate.  That day we moved into the schools barracks.  Every student lived in the barracks.  We stood inspections every day.  Both inside and outdoors.  You were not allowed off school grounds for any reason even when you were not in school because you were expected to be studying and practicing for your exams.  The only key(s) you were allowed to have were the keys to your wall/foot lockers and that was it.  At the end of the 2nd week we had a huge complete field layout and class A inspection.  If you passed you were allowed to move out of the barracks and life returned to some semblence of normal.  While no one took your keys away, it was understood that you didn't have any keys.  It was a merit school and enough demerits would send you packing.  There are ways to do things that have the same affect as taking away someones car keys.  At least in the day there were.

They can use a MPO (Military Protection Order) to restrict the Military member from driving. MPO's are used like restraining orders also but, it can be used for this kind of thing.