Combat Vets vs Fobbits vs Non-Deployers

We are already such a small minority of the population. I can't afford to add to the problem. I look for fellow veterans. (For example...) When we go to a famiily reunion we are all family. We all get to wear the "cheesey t-shirt", not just the 1st cousins, or uncles, etc.

I suggest my brothers and sisters read this article from a Vietnam Vet: http://www.vietvet.org/remfday.htm

I deployed twice, once to Afghanistan and once to Iraq. During the Iraq tour I was a fobbit, but during the Afghanistan tour, I was out on patrols. Both tours of duty were after 2009, so I missed the first half of the war. As a result, I have experienced all three of your situations. I felt guilty having not deployed even though it wasn't by choice. Then I was a fobbit which, like you, I felt counted, but it "wasn't the same." Then I went to Afghanistan and went out on patrols.

Having said all of that, be proud of what you've done. Don't worry about the opinions of others and don't seek the opinions of those who can't relate to what you've done or been through. They wouldn't understand anymore than you would understand their point of view. You did what you needed to do when you were called to do it. That in itself is honorable and worthy of respect.

Thomas, it does not matter what your MOS or AFSC consists of...you served. That means more to me and the public than your job. Ok, so you were a COR, that is only an additional duty in your normal capacity, thousands of Servicemembers are and were CORs. You were in Iraq, well that makes you a combat vet regardless if you put rounds down range. Don't allow yourself to get pulled into the rhetoric of "I was a fobbit" or " POG" so what, you were there, you did your part and because of that you made someone's world a much better place. Army Strong!

This is something that I question also. It is not really a question one really wants to ask. It is not polite to question one's service. Now do I think we all serve the same. Yes and no. Is anyone more important than the other. Not really. We all do our part. We all have our place in the fight. But what can be difficult is the lack of value in that place. The infantry pay a heave price as they carry out the fight on the front lines. Now it is seen to be very honorable. With that being said if you were a heavy wheeled vehicle mechanic you also have a role. What happens is that if one questions if your role is as important as that infantryman you may view your value less. When it comes to killing the bad guys that mechanic may not be the trigger puller or the pipe hitter but that is not what you joined for. The Army needs more than trigger pullers. If you wanted to be a mechanic you shouldn't think you are any less. It is not about who is more important. If you wanted to pull triggers maybe infantry would have been a better decision. But if you hold yourself to their standard then you will always fall short.

Being infantry I have an important role but if you ask me the cooks at the base have a more important role.

Now, being a combat veteran should imply that you deployed to a combat zone. Once again we need to evaluate if you mean infantryman when you say combat soldier. If you try to measure yourself against the infantry you will fall short. But then if I measure myself against that cook I will be eating a lot of cold cereal and burnt hot dogs. But then that is not what I should be measured by.

These things are burdens we place upon ourselves. We are the only ones that can put this on ourselves. I say be proud of what you do. No matter what you do you should be proud of it.

Much like the interservice insults, most of the prodding of non-combat or "slick sleeve" servicemembers is just some brotherly love. However, when a fobbit tries to downplay the stress or effects of combat on individuals, then it becomes hostile (for me, and most people I know who have lost someone close to us in combat). It's all fun and games until someone ignorantly disrespect the sacrifices of those who were pounding ground.

I'm just disappointed I never deployed to Djibouti!

I'm not a "Grunt"...neither am I an Infantryman, Marine, SEAL, EOD, or Airborne, Ranger, "Regiment", or any flavor or "Operator". I was a Sailor...a "Squid"...call it what you will. A combination of choice, orders and fate occasionally put me in harm's way, and I consider myself to have "seen the elephant"...But I'm not and never will share the experiences of those whose training routinely places them at the "tip of the spear". I think THAT is the dividing line; any service member may find themselves trading rounds with the enemy or under direct fire...but some folks spend a lot more time and effort preparing for that moment, and get paid to seek it out. We are all equally willing, and justifiably honored...but we have different experiences. If I tell a Marine who fought in Iraq that I "know where he's coming from", I'd expect to be "called out" for my impertinence...as I would likely challenge anyone who's not deployed on a "Gator" for nine months without seeing land , or twelve months on the ground as an IA who claims "all Sailors have it easy" ;)

That is a great comment and insight. First, I believe you have to differentiate between the terms, veteran, combat veteran, and then perhaps someone who has actually engaged in close combat with the enemy... which is where this gets murky, and where as you well know many many people deploy, but many don't ever do anything hard or dangerous; despite the many war stories they tell. What I hate are made up stories or the badge/award hunters. Those who actually have to engage in close combat generally don't brag about it...

As you stated, All branches of the Armed Forces matter, as do all specialties in each branch. We are all part of the Joint Team, and although sometimes we don't get the spot light, as combat supporters, we do what we do, because we know if matters, and because if we fail, the mission will fail. I have deployed with all branches of the joint team, and they all are needed. Sure, we are brag about our parts, but that is about pride.

You are a veteran, and combat veteran. Don't confuse that with you did not earn a combat action ribbon, combat action badge, combat infantryman's badge etc.

As for the hostility, I think it is more good natured ribbing, then genuine disdain.

I am from a combat support branch in the Army, now considered Maneuver Fires and Effects, but I am not Infantry. But, with branches like MP and Engineers, we deploy at a higher rate than our combat arms brothers, because we are in high demand and low density, and we fight right along side of them.

Good comment and question.

One other thought for you guys. Sgt Adam Jennings reminded me of something when he said "The only people I ever thought were those that had a lot more time in than me that hadn't done any B-billets and still hadn't deployed."

What comes to mind was that during Desert Storm there were quite a few people (primarily seniors) who figured out how to be able to get on a hop, land in the combat zone, spend a little time, and get the CAR.

Long story short, everyone notices posers. Even REMFs. LOL

I usually take the ribbing I get from my grunt brothers extremely light heartedly, unless I pick up that they mean they really do think I'm a POS just because I had to be a POG (if you must know the why behind that please PM me, I'll be more than happy to share). The only people I ever thought I'll of were those that had a lot more time in than me that hadn't done any B-billets and still hadn't deployed. In other words a 15 year Gunnery Sergeant without any b-billets or deployments raises A LOT of questions, like how hard did they try to avoid deployment. Now that the action has died down that will become less of a suspicion and more of a "sucks for you". But while I was in there were plenty of opportunities for anyone able bodied enough to deploy, no excuses.

Time and time again the answer is we are all veterans regardless of how got that designation.

IMHO. The combat arms guys could not do our job with out everyone else doing theirs. We can't fight with out bullets, beans or bandaids. But that being said, I don't like hearing a fobbit complain about their deployment. Greenbeans being out of carmel and being tired of Burger King is not a hardship. I was jealous that you could get that stuff. I was happy if my dip didn't have sand in it. We make fun of Pogs because we want what they have but we also want combat.

You can't help where you're ordered. You just go. Anyone who served should be proud. If a person pulled strings to get from going, then they should be ashamed.

We made fun of fobbits when I was in Iraq, but we had respect for the ones that wanted to go outside of the wire with us. The ones that wanted to stay and never leave those were the ones we had a problem with. If you didn't want to leave the wire you shouldn't have joined the Marines. Now with that being said, posers were the worst. Ones who acted like they had been there and done that, but in reality barely left their cot. Also, rotation was a pain as well when you have fresh barracks boots coming into country to replace you and they are trying to act like they are in the barracks when you are in the middle of Iraq. Nothing would piss us off more.

I always get a kick out of the guys at the VFW who are so full of themselves that they always ask new members what they did to be able to join the organization. My response to them is "I have an Expeditionary Medal". I have 2 actually and a few other awards that would get me membership there. They don't need to know.

Trust me you did more than enough!!!!!

Now that I've reclassed from infantry (after nearly twenty years of it) to the Army Transportation Corps, I've had mixed feelings. In my career I've been in infantry rifle companies, air assault, Airborne, Stryker, and a National Guard LRSD before it went away. Suddenly I'm a paper pusher, working in a BSB as a transportation coordinator. Sometimes, mostly when there are complaints about living conditions or how hard a duty day is, I get aggravated at the sense of "IF ONLY YOU KNEW WHAT REAL SUCK IS." But then I think about when their fueler teams were out there fueling our Strykers when I was still infantry, and I realize, there's so much that goes on, that even down to the contracting of stevedores to get things loaded and unloaded at port, the machinery that gets the trigger pullers to the fight most of the time requires services organic to the force.

But then there's the volunteer work with veterans organizations, and you find resources soaked by "era veterans" (i.e. not combat veterans) and then repeatedly trying to explain the distinction to civilians who just don't get it that not all service is equivalent and there's a good chance a Cold War vet that worked at a Nike Missile Silo exclusively talks to himself because he's just weird and not because he is visited by some service-related trauma.

That and the complaints about how hard things were for them when deployed to . Sort of like Kuwait. I even remember some of my experiences as an arctic paratrooper in Alaska in the 1990s were tougher physically, perhaps even than the first time I wore the soul crushing weight of SAPI plates, or being of that generation that did time in Bosnia or the Sinai prior to the advent of Internet and email or Skype and having to write and hinge on good old fashion letters or phone banks to talk to people back home.

Maybe having to pretend like all service is equal is something we have to indulge with the civilians who will never understand, but at least we all know the deal. Don't get me wrong, I'm always happy to hang out with veterans of any kind, but I won't pretend like I did or do the equivalent of SEAL Team 6 if they won't pretend working in the S2 is the same as serving in a line company.

I would consider you a combat veteran. Not everyone get to go into the fray but, you did your part and thanks for your service.

I was an Aviation Ordnanceman in the Navy for 20 years and served pretty much everywhere I could possibly serve, from the 7th deck magazine in ship's company weapon's department to flight deck squadron ordnance considered one of the most dangerous workplaces on the planet). I was a recruiter, an instructor, and even worked with the Army at Camp Taji Iraq as a prison guard. I always struggled with the guilt that I was never in actual combat, but when I was on the flight deck and saw admin people come up on deck for FOD walk-down dressed in foul-weather jackets in the middle of 120 degree weather, I realized, that we all do our part in our own way.