Combat Vets vs Fobbits vs Non-Deployers

I think at the end of the day, so long as a person serves honorably at whatever assignment they are on, that is all that matters. My husband told me that some of his soldiers were really bummed out about not having a combat tour, since they went to Kuwait. He sat them down and reminded them that there was no shame in serving where they were told to go. He also reminded them that if they had been slotted to go to Afghanistan, they would have carried out their mission there just like they did in Kuwait. We are both glad to have served in Iraq. It was an eye opening and life changing experience. But, there should not be snobbery from someone because they have deployed to a hazard zone and they feel that they are better than someone else who hasn't. All of our careers are unique. People who dodge combat tours are a whole other topic. Bottom line: be proud of your service!

I am very proud of anyone who has served their country whether in combat operations, supporting combat operations, or peace time operations.

I get very, how should I say, suspicious of an Infantryman who has been serving pre 9/11 to present that has never deployed, unless physically incapable of doing so (should be re-classed). Not really sure how that is possible without having an active part in the maneuvering.

I do not make fun of "fobbits" because in one way or another they are extremely important to the Soldiers going outside the wire. Besides everyone is basically Infantry anyway, right?

There are a few that are generally hostile because of inter-service rivalries and the "pecking order"....they are VERY few, and most of them I suspect have an undiagnosed personality disorder, because these are usually the ones that believe that they are God's gift to the military.

Ultimately, this is a "sibling rivalry". Marines talk about the Army, Army talks about the Air Force and Marines, and everyone makes fun of the Coast Guard. Ditto for the combat/non-combat vets. I am not only a non-combat vet, but haven't deployed overseas. Several people have helped me come to grips with that (for a while I was very embarrassed by it), and I have learned to be very proud of the things I've done and recognize that I am able to fight for people here so that they can focus on the time with their family and their medical here at home....reducing stresses and various other aspects to make a positive impact in Soldiers lives.

How do I know that this is just sibling rivalry? A retired Navy Corpsman buddy of mine and I were going back and forth in the interservice rivalry, where he'd give me crap about being Army, so when he left his computer unlocked I'd change his computer to the Army logo or pictures of "hunky sailors". It wasn't until a civilian joined in the mix, and started talking trash about the Navy that we BOTH jumped in, because this gal felt that her BROTHER being in the Air Force entitled her to this inter-service ribbing.

Additionally, I have a few veteran friends that call me Doc because I've done my best to help with their issues. It doesn't matter to them that I'm not a combat vet. It matters most to them that I care about them and I'm willing to go to the ends of the Earth to fight for ANY Soldier, Sailor, Airmen, Marine, or even Coast Guard that needs the help. Why? We are a family. There may be an older brother, a little sister, even the cousin that annoys the crap out of you. However, when you are serving in this nation's military, you are worthy of that respect. I've never had someone disrespect me because of being a slick-sleeve....just for some they are a bit more guarded about trusting me with some of their struggles.
v/r,
CPT Butler

I joined during the "Cold War." I started as a grunt, took orders, loaded in and out of amtraks. Slept in the back full of diesel fumes with my helmet bouncing off my m16, held up on either side by my buddies. Later, I moved into intel, worked Central American counter-insurgency and counter-narcotics ops from a desk in Lejeune and the Pentagon. Later still, from a desk in Okinawa, provided crisis intel support to the CG III MEF. I took orders. I gave orders. All at the will of the Commandant of the Marine Corps. Did I ever feel like a REMF or the "non combat vet." Nope. Maybe because I started out as a grunt. Maybe because I didn't give a hoot what others thought. I signed, I delivered.

ALL OF YOU HAVE DONE THE SAME! Semper Fi and OOH RAH! Let's get over this conversation. We have other enemies to fight, not amongst ourselves.

I would say....admit to what you are...don't Brian Williams your lot in life...
In other words, I always found it comical when we landed in Kuwait and they told me I was now in a combat zone...
I try not to judge...fr the simple fact that I can not help that the enemy did not attack us more often or more directly.
Me not having a purple heart...the enemy gets some of the blame for that...

Ssgt Thomas LaRaia - I agree we all play an important role in the over all military & its success. If a Grunt can't get his bullets & beans he won't be able to compete his mission. C130 gunships (when I was in not sure what they are now) are always welcome to the fight. :-)
I'm a Cold War veteran but I was willing to go at anytime. Hell if they would take old out of shape guys I would go now if my country needed me. I think the problem is with the fobbit (garrison trooper) who walks around pretending to be something he or she is not. Like Brian Williams or Hilary Clinton.

3 "fobbits" got shot the day I came into theater. Afghan military started shooting from the tower. By day 2 I had a rocket go over my head. Did my quickest run time ever after a rocket landed near me in the morning. There's no such thing as a "fobbit" anymore.

I generally fall into the fobbit category with you, though there has been some time outside the wire. I worked my tail off every time I was deployed. I earned my team's respect and they earned mine. Our PJ and Controllers did some amazing stuff and while their experiences inevitably set them apart, they were professionals who knew that their success was in large part because of the rest of the team's hard work. Maybe I was lucky to work with folks that had a true professional's mindset but I never felt that anyone looked down on me for doing my job.

Anyone who does look down on others are simply insecure in my book and feel a need to be "elite" in some way. In my experience, those who were truly elite ended up being the most humble. Largely because they KNEW they had nothing to prove to anyone. Just my two cents.

It was my honor to deploy to Iraq. I volunteered for Gulf War Round 1, but not my time and place I guess for that one. My whole career I felt it was important, but for me and me alone. I don't look down on anyone who didn't deploy, unless they actively went out of their way to avoid it…not cool in my book. I still am coming to grips that my suck wasn't as bad as the guy, or lady next to me, but that trail never will end. For example, I was in Iraq, but Balad was not a bad deal; I GOT to travel all of northern Iraq and some of the western part; some of the FOB were crappy, but the teams that traveled up to meet me came from POS little outposts, so for them it was usually a bit nicer; we got mortared a lot wherever I traveled, but God bless their Iraqi little hearts they couldn't hit $h1t most of the time (but if they ever did it….); my job was not to walk the streets and never had to engage in close combat when other people did; many of them didn't get hit when their buddy took one through the shoulder; another buddy lost a leg, an arm, and an eye when his buddy died in an IED explosion. Who's better off, who's worse off? It depends on your perspective I guess. What about those with PTSD? What about the wives/husbands, girlfriends/boyfriends, moms/dads that could only watch the evening news and worry about us? It doesn't end. I'm proud of everyone I worked with, stateside and deployed; whether in nice locations or really $h1tty ones; no matter their rank, no matter their service (I have supported or been supported by all including the USCG), no matter their nation if they were an allied or coalition partner. Do your job to the best of your ability and I'm happy. Sorry for the long post, but God Bless you all.

One question to ask, when sizing up your military specialty, skill, assignments, might be this:

"If nobody was doing this job, who would die?"

Amazing how far that can take you.

We are already such a small minority of the population. I can't afford to add to the problem. I look for fellow veterans. (For example...) When we go to a famiily reunion we are all family. We all get to wear the "cheesey t-shirt", not just the 1st cousins, or uncles, etc.

I suggest my brothers and sisters read this article from a Vietnam Vet: http://www.vietvet.org/remfday.htm

I deployed twice, once to Afghanistan and once to Iraq. During the Iraq tour I was a fobbit, but during the Afghanistan tour, I was out on patrols. Both tours of duty were after 2009, so I missed the first half of the war. As a result, I have experienced all three of your situations. I felt guilty having not deployed even though it wasn't by choice. Then I was a fobbit which, like you, I felt counted, but it "wasn't the same." Then I went to Afghanistan and went out on patrols.

Having said all of that, be proud of what you've done. Don't worry about the opinions of others and don't seek the opinions of those who can't relate to what you've done or been through. They wouldn't understand anymore than you would understand their point of view. You did what you needed to do when you were called to do it. That in itself is honorable and worthy of respect.

Thomas, it does not matter what your MOS or AFSC consists of...you served. That means more to me and the public than your job. Ok, so you were a COR, that is only an additional duty in your normal capacity, thousands of Servicemembers are and were CORs. You were in Iraq, well that makes you a combat vet regardless if you put rounds down range. Don't allow yourself to get pulled into the rhetoric of "I was a fobbit" or " POG" so what, you were there, you did your part and because of that you made someone's world a much better place. Army Strong!

This is something that I question also. It is not really a question one really wants to ask. It is not polite to question one's service. Now do I think we all serve the same. Yes and no. Is anyone more important than the other. Not really. We all do our part. We all have our place in the fight. But what can be difficult is the lack of value in that place. The infantry pay a heave price as they carry out the fight on the front lines. Now it is seen to be very honorable. With that being said if you were a heavy wheeled vehicle mechanic you also have a role. What happens is that if one questions if your role is as important as that infantryman you may view your value less. When it comes to killing the bad guys that mechanic may not be the trigger puller or the pipe hitter but that is not what you joined for. The Army needs more than trigger pullers. If you wanted to be a mechanic you shouldn't think you are any less. It is not about who is more important. If you wanted to pull triggers maybe infantry would have been a better decision. But if you hold yourself to their standard then you will always fall short.

Being infantry I have an important role but if you ask me the cooks at the base have a more important role.

Now, being a combat veteran should imply that you deployed to a combat zone. Once again we need to evaluate if you mean infantryman when you say combat soldier. If you try to measure yourself against the infantry you will fall short. But then if I measure myself against that cook I will be eating a lot of cold cereal and burnt hot dogs. But then that is not what I should be measured by.

These things are burdens we place upon ourselves. We are the only ones that can put this on ourselves. I say be proud of what you do. No matter what you do you should be proud of it.

Much like the interservice insults, most of the prodding of non-combat or "slick sleeve" servicemembers is just some brotherly love. However, when a fobbit tries to downplay the stress or effects of combat on individuals, then it becomes hostile (for me, and most people I know who have lost someone close to us in combat). It's all fun and games until someone ignorantly disrespect the sacrifices of those who were pounding ground.

I'm just disappointed I never deployed to Djibouti!

I'm not a "Grunt"...neither am I an Infantryman, Marine, SEAL, EOD, or Airborne, Ranger, "Regiment", or any flavor or "Operator". I was a Sailor...a "Squid"...call it what you will. A combination of choice, orders and fate occasionally put me in harm's way, and I consider myself to have "seen the elephant"...But I'm not and never will share the experiences of those whose training routinely places them at the "tip of the spear". I think THAT is the dividing line; any service member may find themselves trading rounds with the enemy or under direct fire...but some folks spend a lot more time and effort preparing for that moment, and get paid to seek it out. We are all equally willing, and justifiably honored...but we have different experiences. If I tell a Marine who fought in Iraq that I "know where he's coming from", I'd expect to be "called out" for my impertinence...as I would likely challenge anyone who's not deployed on a "Gator" for nine months without seeing land , or twelve months on the ground as an IA who claims "all Sailors have it easy" ;)

That is a great comment and insight. First, I believe you have to differentiate between the terms, veteran, combat veteran, and then perhaps someone who has actually engaged in close combat with the enemy... which is where this gets murky, and where as you well know many many people deploy, but many don't ever do anything hard or dangerous; despite the many war stories they tell. What I hate are made up stories or the badge/award hunters. Those who actually have to engage in close combat generally don't brag about it...

As you stated, All branches of the Armed Forces matter, as do all specialties in each branch. We are all part of the Joint Team, and although sometimes we don't get the spot light, as combat supporters, we do what we do, because we know if matters, and because if we fail, the mission will fail. I have deployed with all branches of the joint team, and they all are needed. Sure, we are brag about our parts, but that is about pride.

You are a veteran, and combat veteran. Don't confuse that with you did not earn a combat action ribbon, combat action badge, combat infantryman's badge etc.

As for the hostility, I think it is more good natured ribbing, then genuine disdain.

I am from a combat support branch in the Army, now considered Maneuver Fires and Effects, but I am not Infantry. But, with branches like MP and Engineers, we deploy at a higher rate than our combat arms brothers, because we are in high demand and low density, and we fight right along side of them.

Good comment and question.

One other thought for you guys. Sgt Adam Jennings reminded me of something when he said "The only people I ever thought were those that had a lot more time in than me that hadn't done any B-billets and still hadn't deployed."

What comes to mind was that during Desert Storm there were quite a few people (primarily seniors) who figured out how to be able to get on a hop, land in the combat zone, spend a little time, and get the CAR.

Long story short, everyone notices posers. Even REMFs. LOL