Posted on Aug 23, 2015
Did you know The VA only takes into their accounting of suicides statistics, if or when "numbers exceed 20" and they are ranked by service?
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Did you know The VA only takes into their accounting of suicides statistics, if or when "numbers exceed 20" and they are ranked by service?
The reason this suicide was unlike any other suicide to date, is because it happened on the VA grounds with Veteran intent of doing himself harm.
#Veteran Suicide Express
by Kim Bolen RN CCM ACM
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/veteran-suicide-express-kimberly-bolen-rn-lcm-acm-ccm?trk=pulse-det-nav_art
The VA is struggling to hire mental health practitioners, all across the board; including but not limited to Nurses and Social workers
It is Very True that many Veterans are slipping through the cracks, but it is all across America.
The reason this suicide was unlike any other suicide to date, is because it happened on the VA grounds with Veteran intent of doing himself harm.
#Veteran Suicide Express
by Kim Bolen RN CCM ACM
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/veteran-suicide-express-kimberly-bolen-rn-lcm-acm-ccm?trk=pulse-det-nav_art
The VA is struggling to hire mental health practitioners, all across the board; including but not limited to Nurses and Social workers
It is Very True that many Veterans are slipping through the cracks, but it is all across America.
Virginia Department of Veterans Services
DAV
Suicide
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 12
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COL Mikel J. Burroughs
It's not ok to say, "Only a small percentage of veterans fall through the cracks." and for us to accept and believe that is an acceptable loss. Any more than it is ok to hear someone say we can expect a 10 or 20 percent casualty loss on a specific mission because we can't get them the fire support they need. I'm tired of Soldiers dying because, "It's an acceptable percentage" whether they are in combat or at home...
There are as I've seen in posts to a discussion I started excellent V.A. hospitals and staff available to aid veterans and there are poorly managed V.A. hospitals that do nothing but add to the frustration veterans are already facing. There needs to be a set protocol for Administrative operations that will lead to all veterans receiving the same standard of care no matter what facility they are assigned to. Every V.A. facility needs to operate with the same Mission Statement. There needs to be accountability for patient care. We need to look at who is being hired to be the hospital CEOs, what is their background and how did they get there? Ultimately they are responsible for all of the hospital's operations.
On another note: This is an irreversible act of desperation. I hope anyone who is contemplating suicide understands it is a permanent fix to end whatever is wrong, it will leave your family and friends always questioning themselves and with feelings of guilt that they did not recognize your pain or understand the depth of it. This is not the way. This may have been a meant as a statement but the reality is that it's a flash in the pan, newsworthy yes but the statement that needs to be made needs to have a lasting legislative effect.
A FINAL THOUGHT: How many times did he come seeking help before he finally gave up?
It's not ok to say, "Only a small percentage of veterans fall through the cracks." and for us to accept and believe that is an acceptable loss. Any more than it is ok to hear someone say we can expect a 10 or 20 percent casualty loss on a specific mission because we can't get them the fire support they need. I'm tired of Soldiers dying because, "It's an acceptable percentage" whether they are in combat or at home...
There are as I've seen in posts to a discussion I started excellent V.A. hospitals and staff available to aid veterans and there are poorly managed V.A. hospitals that do nothing but add to the frustration veterans are already facing. There needs to be a set protocol for Administrative operations that will lead to all veterans receiving the same standard of care no matter what facility they are assigned to. Every V.A. facility needs to operate with the same Mission Statement. There needs to be accountability for patient care. We need to look at who is being hired to be the hospital CEOs, what is their background and how did they get there? Ultimately they are responsible for all of the hospital's operations.
On another note: This is an irreversible act of desperation. I hope anyone who is contemplating suicide understands it is a permanent fix to end whatever is wrong, it will leave your family and friends always questioning themselves and with feelings of guilt that they did not recognize your pain or understand the depth of it. This is not the way. This may have been a meant as a statement but the reality is that it's a flash in the pan, newsworthy yes but the statement that needs to be made needs to have a lasting legislative effect.
A FINAL THOUGHT: How many times did he come seeking help before he finally gave up?
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COL Mikel J. Burroughs
CPT (Join to see) In reference to your final question I'm going to reach out to the author Kim Bolen RN CCM ACM to see if she has that information. That is a very good question.
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COL Mikel J. Burroughs
CPT (Join to see) here is the response I received back from Kim Bolen RN CCM ACM when I posed you question about: "A FINAL THOUGHT: How many times did he come seeking help before he finally gave up?"
From Kimberly Bolen:
Hoorah Sir.
I Concur. One is to many!
What is the legislative thought that the captain has in mind?
What facilities does he believes helps?
I do believe it must be legislative at this point in time as there are so many Psych docs that think they know it all or are burnt out or crazy themselves and they just "kick the can down the road", so to speak, when they do not know what to do, so they over medicate, fail to follow up, but will adjust dosages of medications higher, so that the side effects kick in and no one will take them after that. Which some of the side effects are suicidal thoughts, themselves due to the medication dose.
We do need standards of care that is to be practiced throughout all Veteran Facilities. However, each individual, does not have the same rationale for suicidal thoughts, plans or actions. I have not met many Military that are able or willing to stick there necks out for this standard of care or practice. (cultural divide)
But I am not Military.........
Sir, they have been trained not to feel pain, then when they come home, no one supports them and their pain is so overwhelmingly real.
This is a program that needs to begin prior to the mil being discharged to return to the Civilian arena. (Preventative)
The va is unable to treat, recognize and help Suicidal Veterans, that is one of the reasons I am here and continue to fight. They do not have Psych, that is able to assist. The suicide hotline does not work. It is a phone number, but does not assist the veteran in the emergent stage.
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/suicide-painless-brings-many-changes-kimberly-bolen-rn-lnc-acm-ccm?trk=mp-reader-card
Suicide, is indeed a permanent solution to a temporary issue.
As to answer the captain directly, he fought for 3 years, 24 days 6 hours and 32 seconds. The 32 seconds, were the most powerful moments he felt in his life since his return from overseas. His suicide, was not in vane.
He has brought focus to an issue that his fellow brothers and sisters needed and more importantly was placed directly on POTUS desk for direct answer.
Hope that answered your question.
From Kimberly Bolen:
Hoorah Sir.
I Concur. One is to many!
What is the legislative thought that the captain has in mind?
What facilities does he believes helps?
I do believe it must be legislative at this point in time as there are so many Psych docs that think they know it all or are burnt out or crazy themselves and they just "kick the can down the road", so to speak, when they do not know what to do, so they over medicate, fail to follow up, but will adjust dosages of medications higher, so that the side effects kick in and no one will take them after that. Which some of the side effects are suicidal thoughts, themselves due to the medication dose.
We do need standards of care that is to be practiced throughout all Veteran Facilities. However, each individual, does not have the same rationale for suicidal thoughts, plans or actions. I have not met many Military that are able or willing to stick there necks out for this standard of care or practice. (cultural divide)
But I am not Military.........
Sir, they have been trained not to feel pain, then when they come home, no one supports them and their pain is so overwhelmingly real.
This is a program that needs to begin prior to the mil being discharged to return to the Civilian arena. (Preventative)
The va is unable to treat, recognize and help Suicidal Veterans, that is one of the reasons I am here and continue to fight. They do not have Psych, that is able to assist. The suicide hotline does not work. It is a phone number, but does not assist the veteran in the emergent stage.
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/suicide-painless-brings-many-changes-kimberly-bolen-rn-lnc-acm-ccm?trk=mp-reader-card
Suicide, is indeed a permanent solution to a temporary issue.
As to answer the captain directly, he fought for 3 years, 24 days 6 hours and 32 seconds. The 32 seconds, were the most powerful moments he felt in his life since his return from overseas. His suicide, was not in vane.
He has brought focus to an issue that his fellow brothers and sisters needed and more importantly was placed directly on POTUS desk for direct answer.
Hope that answered your question.
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CPT (Join to see)
@Kimberly Bolen.
If you want to pursue this route you must:
1. Slow down, as much as you may hate it nothing is going to happen overnight.
2. Do not attack Psychologist and Psychiatrist as a group lumping them all together, it's not helpful. A better approach is to gain their support for action. Perhaps there are restrictions in place prohibiting them from properly treating patients the way they would like.
3. V.A. current standards of care are found under V.A. directive 2006-041. Look for more directives and internal correspondence.
4. Don't apply blanket statements such as "The V.A. is unable to treat, recognize..." This type of statement is to general you must be more specific and show documented cases of misdiagnosis. If none exist then you must build your own documentation and you better make sure it is honest and will stand up to the intense viewing of legal officials up to and including the supreme court. Nothing less will be sufficient.
5. Don't pull in information from unreliable sources.
6. Start small, be positive, be persistent, be passionate but don't get emotional.
7. Here is a link to health care legislation regarding standards of care. http://www.healthit.gov/policy-researchers-implementers/health-it-legislation-and-regulations
If you want to pursue this route you must:
1. Slow down, as much as you may hate it nothing is going to happen overnight.
2. Do not attack Psychologist and Psychiatrist as a group lumping them all together, it's not helpful. A better approach is to gain their support for action. Perhaps there are restrictions in place prohibiting them from properly treating patients the way they would like.
3. V.A. current standards of care are found under V.A. directive 2006-041. Look for more directives and internal correspondence.
4. Don't apply blanket statements such as "The V.A. is unable to treat, recognize..." This type of statement is to general you must be more specific and show documented cases of misdiagnosis. If none exist then you must build your own documentation and you better make sure it is honest and will stand up to the intense viewing of legal officials up to and including the supreme court. Nothing less will be sufficient.
5. Don't pull in information from unreliable sources.
6. Start small, be positive, be persistent, be passionate but don't get emotional.
7. Here is a link to health care legislation regarding standards of care. http://www.healthit.gov/policy-researchers-implementers/health-it-legislation-and-regulations
Health IT Rules and Regulations | Policy Researchers & Implementers | HealthIT.gov
Learn about the proposed and final Health IT rules and regulations that will affect the use of EHRs for eligible providers and hospitals.
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COL Mikel J. Burroughs This is disturbing. As Kimberly Bolen, RN, LNC, ACM, CCM stated 1 is one too many. This article astonishes me. Having been a CID Special Agent, I saw many suicides in theater, in fact more than I care to remember. One will always stand out for me. A young PFC. She had been to Combat Stress Clinic and a psychologist and psychiatrist recommended she be sent home. Her CoC refused and further demoralized her by removing the firing pin from her weapon. Not deterred, while her battle buddy and suicide watch slept she borrowed her M16 and loaded a round she obtained from an amnesty box, shot herself, and lived long enough to crawl under her bunk dying in the fetal position. That was a life which could have and should have been spared for the trip home. After that, your guess is a good as mine, but she should have made it home.
A part of me died with her in Iraq. I pray for her family everyday. While I did not have the power to send her home and was not in her CoC, I feel guilty.
A part of me died with her in Iraq. I pray for her family everyday. While I did not have the power to send her home and was not in her CoC, I feel guilty.
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COL Mikel J. Burroughs
SFC Dr. Joseph Finck, BS, MA, DSS Thanks for sharing your thoughts and story!
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Suspended Profile
Until they all come home... every life lost is a tragedy and a national embarrassment. Sadly there are alternatives to VA care, but many vets don't know about them.
I work for the Soldier's Project - http://www.thesoldiersproject.org which offers free counseling to Post 9/11 vets. I offer services on line - you don't have to be local...
I work for the Soldier's Project - http://www.thesoldiersproject.org which offers free counseling to Post 9/11 vets. I offer services on line - you don't have to be local...
COL Mikel J. Burroughs
LCDR Rabbi Jaron Matlow Thanks for the additional information. Every bit helps another veteran, active duty member, and retiree and may save some lives!
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MSgt Steve Miller
I've never stepped into a VA hospital other than maybe my intake physical before bootcamp. Â To much bad press and no one ever really does anything about fixing the VA. Â They just give us a bunch of lip service of how outraged they are that vets are treated so poorly, tell us they are going to fix it and move on. Its sad that our vets are waiting months on end to see a doctor.
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What a tragic piece. IT is beyond ridiculous. I know first hand. Call the Dr., tell him you are going Cray and they give you an appointment two weeks from the day you called. It's crazy. They don't care. There are too many turnovers. Had 3 separate psychs and they wonder why I don't want to open up. I will be talking to a different one within the month about the same damn thing. This needs to be fixed. The President should be the one leading on this!!! Why he really hasn't been, well it's just not so surprising... COL Mikel J. Burroughs
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MSgt Manuel Diaz
You do better picking up the same hooker and telling her your stories and she tells you stories pay her for her time. See her again, same thing, just watch out for cops, not sure if that's illegal since ur not paying for sex... like a psychiatrist except she won't put you on the gun confiscation program for potential going berserkÂ
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Such a sad testimony that the VA only looks upon us veterans only as statistics and not as human beings. Hiring more mental health workers is nothing more than a little too little to late and is a Band Aid to treat a hemorrhage. Fix the problem VA and stop Covering Your Ass with these "PR Solutions" and actually do something.
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COL Mikel J. Burroughs,
In one of my PTSD treatment groups, one of my friends, I made there, seemed like he was coming around, talking more, coming to group more, and had a great sense of humor. For two weeks Dennis didn't come to group. We called and called. A few of us went to his house to see if he was home. He was known to just take off on his Harley and take a long road trip. When we got to his house it was burned down. We asked one of the neighbors if he knew where Dennis was. He said that Dennis gave away his Harley, set his house on fire, and shot himself in the head. We were dumbfounded. So, my point is that no matter how long it takes, if a vet, or a civilian is intent on committing suicide, nobody will know until they're dead. I worked a suicide hotline for two years. Many suicidal people called. Sometimes they wanted to talk to someone and talk about their thoughts of suicide. You might be on the phone a few minutes or hours. The ones sincere about it, would call and ask us if we would get in touch with someone and tell them they had committed suicide. We would immediately call 911 and report it. We had their phone number on our caller ID. Sometimes we would hear back from the Police, but most times not. We had regulars who called every night, sometimes drunk sometimes stoned. They would say the same thing every night. It became really tough to listen to those lost souls. I finally had to give it up because I couldn't take it anymore. It was making me suicidal. I think all of the really good and truly concerned mental health personnel do all they can do. I'm sure there are some duds, but they don't last long. Thank goodness.
In one of my PTSD treatment groups, one of my friends, I made there, seemed like he was coming around, talking more, coming to group more, and had a great sense of humor. For two weeks Dennis didn't come to group. We called and called. A few of us went to his house to see if he was home. He was known to just take off on his Harley and take a long road trip. When we got to his house it was burned down. We asked one of the neighbors if he knew where Dennis was. He said that Dennis gave away his Harley, set his house on fire, and shot himself in the head. We were dumbfounded. So, my point is that no matter how long it takes, if a vet, or a civilian is intent on committing suicide, nobody will know until they're dead. I worked a suicide hotline for two years. Many suicidal people called. Sometimes they wanted to talk to someone and talk about their thoughts of suicide. You might be on the phone a few minutes or hours. The ones sincere about it, would call and ask us if we would get in touch with someone and tell them they had committed suicide. We would immediately call 911 and report it. We had their phone number on our caller ID. Sometimes we would hear back from the Police, but most times not. We had regulars who called every night, sometimes drunk sometimes stoned. They would say the same thing every night. It became really tough to listen to those lost souls. I finally had to give it up because I couldn't take it anymore. It was making me suicidal. I think all of the really good and truly concerned mental health personnel do all they can do. I'm sure there are some duds, but they don't last long. Thank goodness.
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COL Mikel J. Burroughs
SGT (Join to see) I'm really far behind today in my "votes up" I haven't forgot you and your response. I'll catch up tomorrow. Thanks for continuing to share your thoughts Keith. Your input and feedback mean a lot to me!
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COL Mikel J. Burroughs It is very sad when anybody commits suicide. As a veteran I am saddened when other veterans commit suicide.
The 22 suicides for veterans per day statistic is based on an older study of all veterans going back to WWII. The current rate for veterans of recent wars [OIF/OEF] is about 1 per day - [see the LA Times Article]. http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-veteran-suicide-20150115-story.html
Yes it is sad when veterans "fall through the cracks" are left unseen, untreated or ignored. However it does all of us a disservice when bad information is bandied about on the internet.
Since the suicide rate among recent war veterans is well below 20 per day it is sad when somebody posts a commentary that states that "The VA only takes into their accounting of suicides statistics, if or when "numbers exceed 20"."
The VA and government consider all suicides including veterans suicides as information for statistical purposes. For somebody to state that the number is ignored for statistical purposes until it hits 20 is stirring up a controversy where none exists.
The 22 suicides for veterans per day statistic is based on an older study of all veterans going back to WWII. The current rate for veterans of recent wars [OIF/OEF] is about 1 per day - [see the LA Times Article]. http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-veteran-suicide-20150115-story.html
Yes it is sad when veterans "fall through the cracks" are left unseen, untreated or ignored. However it does all of us a disservice when bad information is bandied about on the internet.
Since the suicide rate among recent war veterans is well below 20 per day it is sad when somebody posts a commentary that states that "The VA only takes into their accounting of suicides statistics, if or when "numbers exceed 20"."
The VA and government consider all suicides including veterans suicides as information for statistical purposes. For somebody to state that the number is ignored for statistical purposes until it hits 20 is stirring up a controversy where none exists.
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COL Mikel J. Burroughs
LTC Stephen F. I'm very sadden by any stastic or loss of a veteran! Thank you for the additional article and link. Awareness is important!
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COL Mikel J. Burroughs Kim Bolen RN CCM ACM
Not sure what we can do but we need a better way to get Veterans the care they need.
I am sharing what I just posted on linkedin...
Kimberly, Thank you for highlighting this tragic loss of Mr. Murphy and continuing to highlight the mental health care needs of Veterans. I know many people in the VA care, but the process of getting into the system is broken. I have two overseas combat tours and have been a reservist for 28 years and find many soldiers must 'prove' their conditions are service related. Going back to the military service for records in a war zone is impossible, units change and documentation is limited or non-existent, when in combat.
Not sure what we can do but we need a better way to get Veterans the care they need.
I am sharing what I just posted on linkedin...
Kimberly, Thank you for highlighting this tragic loss of Mr. Murphy and continuing to highlight the mental health care needs of Veterans. I know many people in the VA care, but the process of getting into the system is broken. I have two overseas combat tours and have been a reservist for 28 years and find many soldiers must 'prove' their conditions are service related. Going back to the military service for records in a war zone is impossible, units change and documentation is limited or non-existent, when in combat.
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"The Veterans Administration only takes into their accounting of suicides statistics, if or when "numbers exceed 20" and they are ranked by service. So if 19 from the Navy committed suicide this day, they would not be utilized in the accounting..."
Is this for real? I wasn't aware of this and it does make the number "22" irrelevant as the loss of just 1 life is far too many... I wonder if the actual numbers are tracked somewhere, and what, exactly, makes "20" & "22" the magic rate number... I would really be curious to know this "magical" formula...
Is this for real? I wasn't aware of this and it does make the number "22" irrelevant as the loss of just 1 life is far too many... I wonder if the actual numbers are tracked somewhere, and what, exactly, makes "20" & "22" the magic rate number... I would really be curious to know this "magical" formula...
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