Posted on Oct 24, 2017
Do cadets actually outrank non-commissioned officers?
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I deal with cadets a lot, and they insist they out "rank" every NCO in the army. My usual response is somewhere around the guides of "uh-huh." Can I get some clarity of this?
Posted 8 y ago
Responses: 1044
Yes, but...
(always a good start to a story)
If you want to have a good time, grab you some popcorn, have a seat, and watch what happens when a know-it-all cadet tries to tell a battle-hardened Infantry Platoon Sergeant what's-what. Having watched that show before, I can tell you, that's some good entertainment!
(always a good start to a story)
If you want to have a good time, grab you some popcorn, have a seat, and watch what happens when a know-it-all cadet tries to tell a battle-hardened Infantry Platoon Sergeant what's-what. Having watched that show before, I can tell you, that's some good entertainment!
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A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney
SGT Dave Tracy...
OUCH ~ LMAO.
"...Cadet tries to tell a battle-hardened Infantry Platoon Sergeant what's-what. Having watched that show before, I can tell you, that's some good entertainment!
"May I Come Over And Watch Too" !?
"I'll Ya What, I'll Even Bring A Case Of Beer & A Few Bags Of Chips.
I'll Most Likely Be Laughing At That Cadet All Day!"
OUCH ~ LMAO.
"...Cadet tries to tell a battle-hardened Infantry Platoon Sergeant what's-what. Having watched that show before, I can tell you, that's some good entertainment!
"May I Come Over And Watch Too" !?
"I'll Ya What, I'll Even Bring A Case Of Beer & A Few Bags Of Chips.
I'll Most Likely Be Laughing At That Cadet All Day!"
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I'd love to see one try pulling rank on a CSM. The show would be well worth the price of admission.
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SFC James (JD) Flemal
My CSM called them spot. After some discussion from senior officers they did their best to avoid him. Lol
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PO1 Briann Helms Roberts
Cadets and Midshipmen are paid at the equivalent rate of E-5. If they flunk out, are removed, or quit, they by law are required to serve their obligated time starting at the rank of E-3. While I served at CG Officers Candidate School I never saw that happen. They were released directly back into civilian society with VA benefits.
So no, Technically and legally they do not out rank E-6 and above.
So no, Technically and legally they do not out rank E-6 and above.
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CPT Jerry Lucas
PO1 Briann Helms Roberts - AR 600-20 Army Command Policy, Table 1-1, lists all Army ranks in order, from General of the Army down to Private E-1. West Point cadets, ROTC cadets, officer candidates and warrant officer candidates, all fall below WO-1 and above Sergeant Major of the Army, E-9. So, yes, technically and legally, cadets and candidates outrank all enlisted personnel. I'm sure the other branches have similar
policies as https://milreg.com/File.aspx?id=321
policies as https://milreg.com/File.aspx?id=321
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2LT (Join to see) See AR 600-20 table 1-1
You will find Academy Cadets and Senior ROTC cadets are in precedence between Warrant officers and NCO.
Generally a Senior ROTC cadet is a 3rd or 4th year scholarship contracted cadet.
So a 1st and 2nd year non contracted cadets have no rank as it applies to service members.
Though in the Cadet command and working with them, we commonly referred to all cadets as "sir" or "Ma'am" Or "Cadet Name"
You will find Academy Cadets and Senior ROTC cadets are in precedence between Warrant officers and NCO.
Generally a Senior ROTC cadet is a 3rd or 4th year scholarship contracted cadet.
So a 1st and 2nd year non contracted cadets have no rank as it applies to service members.
Though in the Cadet command and working with them, we commonly referred to all cadets as "sir" or "Ma'am" Or "Cadet Name"
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SPC (Join to see)
CPT Larry Hudson - "That was my job. I delighted in it." How are you as "Chief Executive Officer (CEO) at Hudson Land & Cattle LLC?" Are you appreciated as a hard a$$ as a civilian????
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PO1 Robert Ryan
I was performing MP Duty at Fort Lewis way back in 1973, I stopped a possible drunk driver, the person un the car refused to provide ID, and cooperate. I was a buck sergeant then. He told me did not have enough rank to stop him, and he then threaten me that when got out the car he would kick m my ass. As soon as his foot hit the ground, I put him on the ground and hand cuffed him. Fin ally getting to see his ID i saw that he was a cadet at West Point on holiday leave. His last name caught my eye, and it was the same as the base commander, I contacted my duty officer. To make a story short this cadet was the son of the base commander. The Commander wanted to see me in the morning, Here I was SGT nobody having to go see the base commander. The General asked to explain what happened that led me to have to deal with his son. After telling me he had no issues with I had done, he asked if I had filed the MP report yet. I said no, I think my duty officer is going to do that. He said that his son was i n the top 5% of his class at West point and if the report got field his son could be kicked out of Werst Point. His son was 20 years old. A report was not filed, but the General made his son apologizer to me for his behavior. When he was detained the breathalyzer showed he was indeed driving drunk. i think I did the right thing by nott having done a report. My duty officer held off filing one also. I think that young cadet learned a valuable lesson from that incident.
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SSgt Dennis Hunter
Wrong move...his son SHOULD have been kicked out of West Point. Not your job to 'teach a lesson'...which you DIDN'T do. You just taught this punk that the rules are not made for him. Daddy should have been reported to your supervisor for trying to persuade you to violate regulations.
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AR 600-20 Army Command Policy is pretty clear about that yes cadets do outrank NCOs.
Furthermore in the succession of command for "2-8. Death, disability, retirement, reassignment, or absence of the commander" it outlines the order of Senior regularly assigned Army Soldier.
However,
If you have a cadet that's going around "commanding" NCOs what to do you have an uninvolved officers and commander in your unit who should guide mentor and teach that young cadet some common sense and etiquette. This can similarly be applied to 2LTs.
Now for you butthurt NCOs - calm down instead of taking the approach of those are just some wet behind the ears cadidiots - keep in mind they will become commissioned officers and commander sooner or later, and run a platoon, company, or even battalion and higher. So two things: 1) instead of acting high and mighty - bring those cadets under your arm and teach them something, 2) if they get a little lippy or high and mighty bring them down to earth (I don't have to outline the procedures here).
Bottom line is this stupid tension and hatred of officers from the enlisted side starts here with cadets and 2LTs - as a former NCO I'll tell you, you have a golden opportunity to mentor and mold some good young officers instead of alienating them.
Furthermore in the succession of command for "2-8. Death, disability, retirement, reassignment, or absence of the commander" it outlines the order of Senior regularly assigned Army Soldier.
However,
If you have a cadet that's going around "commanding" NCOs what to do you have an uninvolved officers and commander in your unit who should guide mentor and teach that young cadet some common sense and etiquette. This can similarly be applied to 2LTs.
Now for you butthurt NCOs - calm down instead of taking the approach of those are just some wet behind the ears cadidiots - keep in mind they will become commissioned officers and commander sooner or later, and run a platoon, company, or even battalion and higher. So two things: 1) instead of acting high and mighty - bring those cadets under your arm and teach them something, 2) if they get a little lippy or high and mighty bring them down to earth (I don't have to outline the procedures here).
Bottom line is this stupid tension and hatred of officers from the enlisted side starts here with cadets and 2LTs - as a former NCO I'll tell you, you have a golden opportunity to mentor and mold some good young officers instead of alienating them.
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MAJ Geiter Dunn
I've seen far more butthurt USMA cadets that don't get the "respect" they think they've earned (because they successfully went from sucking their mom's teat to sucking Uncle Sams teat at West Point), than butthurt NCOs. In fact, most NCOs don't give a rat's behind about cadets, and I've seen a few simply walk away from a cadet who tried to explain the rank structure while wearing "pips".
Always good for a laugh.
Always good for a laugh.
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The man holding the reins of the wagon may be "in charge", but he is going to have a hard time moving the wagon down the road without the cooperation of the horses.
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MSG Scott McBride
Yep, i dealt with cadets a couple of times. It was fun. I never used sir or ma'am. It Cadet, always. Cadets still need to earn respect of those they intwnt to lead. NCOs will keep you alive.
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An E-7 from the 75th Rangers I worked with called them all "Cadidiots" to their faces. Smart Cadets shut up and learn from NCOs. The dumb ones don't last long at all and usually get transferred. Best show I ever got was a Cadet freshly made into a 2LT who was going to make some "hard and fast changes" now that he was "in charge" of the same unit he shadowed as a Cadet. He got berated by the E-6 in charge for about 2 hours. Word got up to the LTC who shipped the 2LT to be someone else's problem. 2LTs are a dime a dozen, and no commander wants to give up a seasoned NCO over a fresh better bar.
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LTC Stephen F.
Wow SPC Casey Ashfield Did you serve under my friends who commanded SOCOM [as well as the 75th Ranger Regiment Gen Wayne Downing [organizer and 1st commander of 75th Rnager Regiment or Gen Joe Votel [who commanded the 75th during OIF]?
Per AR 600–20 • 24 July 2020 5 [USN/USMC personnel reg applies to USNA midshipmen]
Cadets rank just below WO-1 USMA, ROTC and then OCS
Table 1 –1
Grades, Army— Continued
W-2 Pay grade; Title of address: Chief/Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms.
Abbreviation: CW2
W-1 Pay grade: W –1; Title of address: Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms.
Abbreviation: WO1
USMA Cadets; Cadet, U.S. Military Academy; Pay grade: Special; Title of address: Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms./Cadet
Abbreviation: CDT
ROTC cadet Grade: Cadet, Senior Advanced Reserve Officer’s Training Corps (ROTC); Pay grade: Special; Title of address: Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms./Cadet
Abbreviation: CDT
Officer Candidate School Candidates; Pay grade: Special; Title of address: Candidate
Abbreviation: OC
Warrant Officer Candidate; Pay grade: Special; Title of address: Candidate
Abbreviation: WOC
Enlisted noncommissioned officers
Sergeant Major of the Army; Pay grade: E –9; Title of address: Sergeant Major
Command Sergeant Major2; Pay grade: E –9; Title of address: Sergeant Major
Sergeant Major [3]; Pay grade: E –9; Title of address: Sergeant Major
First Sergeant; Pay grade: E –8; Title of address: First Sergeant
Master Sergeant; Pay grade: E –8; Title of address: Sergeant
Sergeant First Class; Pay grade: E –7; Title of address: Sergeant
Per AR 600–20 • 24 July 2020 5 [USN/USMC personnel reg applies to USNA midshipmen]
Cadets rank just below WO-1 USMA, ROTC and then OCS
Table 1 –1
Grades, Army— Continued
W-2 Pay grade; Title of address: Chief/Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms.
Abbreviation: CW2
W-1 Pay grade: W –1; Title of address: Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms.
Abbreviation: WO1
USMA Cadets; Cadet, U.S. Military Academy; Pay grade: Special; Title of address: Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms./Cadet
Abbreviation: CDT
ROTC cadet Grade: Cadet, Senior Advanced Reserve Officer’s Training Corps (ROTC); Pay grade: Special; Title of address: Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms./Cadet
Abbreviation: CDT
Officer Candidate School Candidates; Pay grade: Special; Title of address: Candidate
Abbreviation: OC
Warrant Officer Candidate; Pay grade: Special; Title of address: Candidate
Abbreviation: WOC
Enlisted noncommissioned officers
Sergeant Major of the Army; Pay grade: E –9; Title of address: Sergeant Major
Command Sergeant Major2; Pay grade: E –9; Title of address: Sergeant Major
Sergeant Major [3]; Pay grade: E –9; Title of address: Sergeant Major
First Sergeant; Pay grade: E –8; Title of address: First Sergeant
Master Sergeant; Pay grade: E –8; Title of address: Sergeant
Sergeant First Class; Pay grade: E –7; Title of address: Sergeant
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CPT (Join to see)
I will have to admit that since 2006 at least, the caliber of officer, in the US Army has gone downhill. I was career military and I was told I did something I did not do and forced out (more than a few witnesses, eye witnesses). The officers in charge of investigating the situation did not do so. I tried to submit my handsigned statements from the eyewitnesses and I was told to "give them to my lawyer." Had no reason previous to 'get' a lawyer. All ot would have taken was one person in my chain of command to step in. I have been fighting my separation for 17+ years now and it really sickens me to my stomach to see some of the unqualified people run around telling everyone that they are officers and everyone better do what they say. US Army officers are the most dishonorable people I have ever had the displeasure to work with. I would NEVER hire a former one into my company. I have begged and pleaded for an officer, that is all it takes, is just one for 17 years to swear me in. I get bupkiss. Therefore ALL US Army officers from my perspective are dishonorable - at least since 2006. Yes, I completed the OCS program at Benning and they separated me as enlisted. My attorney Mr. Gary Myers was threatened and intimidated and he told me that their JAG said I could not win the case. I was never much for tooting my own horn, but I have had to do it many times against trolls and paid stooges from the US Army officer corps in the last 17 years - because I know, prior service enlisted like myself (I was prior USAF enlisted) can run circles around and wet behind the ears college kid just there to pay back their student loans. My nonfiction names named book will be published in a few years after I retire at 60 "An Era of Dishonor: the true story of Fort Benning Officer Candidate School class 01-06 Alpha Company." I have waited 17 years for an officer with the guts to do what is right to step forward. None have. Therefore none are honorable.
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CPT (Join to see)
MSG Lonnie Averkamp tell me where the humor is when a career military officer gets shoved out of the service for something that a classmate of his lied through her teeth about and has to live the last 17 years of his life in poverty struggling to raise a family on less that $20 an hour because he was unable to use anything he learned as an officer since he was removed directly after OCS? "Future L-T" huh? Another dishonorable person who does not think that quibbling is lying joins the ranks. Major thumbs down.
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I will leave the legal determination as to "who truly out ranks who" to those in paygrades higher than mine. That being said, as an 11B2P NCO I trained many a cadet at Ft. Bragg. As they would be future officers, I always referred to them as Sir or Ma'am and did by best to respectful and not be too condescending towards them. I in turn was always treated with the upmost respect from them. After all ... An NCO's job is to train soldiers (private's) and officers to the best of their abilities.
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LTJG Richard Bruce
Correct form of address to Cadets/Midshipmen is "Mr" or "Ms/Miss". No harm saying "Sir" or Ma'am". It will be more appropriate for a 1/C cadet than underclassmen.
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CSM Charles Hayden Passed 7/29/2025
PVT Raymond Lopez Not quite Private! Good NCOs always have an hidden revervoir or strength and knowledge!
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If you want to be technical, cadets are not commissioned. They are in the learning process. I have a few NCO instructors and it doesn't matter if they outrank me or not. They deserve my respect and listening ear. I stand at parade rest when speaking to them. I'm am ROTC cadet.
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CPL Rodney Trotter
SSG David Pinckney - thats a Mustang, and yes, the VAST majority of Mustangs are the best officers you'll EVER work with, and note I said with and not for. A mustang wont hesitate to remove his blouse and dig in the mud and dirt right alongside his troops, whereas that college degreed officer treats enlisted as his personal slaves.
Working in the IMEF G3, that shop contained 39 O-5s and above compared to the 11 enlisted personnel total in there, all of enlisted Corporals, Sgts and Staff NCOs. One new Major transferred in and immediately started to order myself as a Corporal, and another Sergeant to go out to his car and start bringing in all his personal gear to his new cubical, and then ordered another Sergeant to get him a cup of coffee. The senior enlisted Marine, a 31yr Master Gunny Sgt politely pulled the Major into his office and proceeded to ream him up and down for over an hour on the way NCOs are not his personal servants to do as he commanded. The Major then went to the G-3 shop commanding officer, a 1 star general who had just happened to be a mustang from decades back politely told that Major in more polite words, to "suck up that Master Gunns just yelled at you and didnt physically kick his ass for being a moron".
Working in the IMEF G3, that shop contained 39 O-5s and above compared to the 11 enlisted personnel total in there, all of enlisted Corporals, Sgts and Staff NCOs. One new Major transferred in and immediately started to order myself as a Corporal, and another Sergeant to go out to his car and start bringing in all his personal gear to his new cubical, and then ordered another Sergeant to get him a cup of coffee. The senior enlisted Marine, a 31yr Master Gunny Sgt politely pulled the Major into his office and proceeded to ream him up and down for over an hour on the way NCOs are not his personal servants to do as he commanded. The Major then went to the G-3 shop commanding officer, a 1 star general who had just happened to be a mustang from decades back politely told that Major in more polite words, to "suck up that Master Gunns just yelled at you and didnt physically kick his ass for being a moron".
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PO1 Jackson Plant
LTJG Richard Bruce - not until commissioned then as a Ensign they hold office and the authority comes from the commission of the President. I never called middies sir or mam until they got my respect. most automatically had it, but that one that tried to throw his lack of rank around on my sub where even Chiefs without a pin were waste of air. lol
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LTC Stephen F.
FYI 2LT (Join to see)
As an ROTC cadet you ranked below USMA cadets, above OCS cadets, below WO-1 and above NCOs
Per AR 600–20 • 24 July 2020 5 [USN/USMC personnel reg applies to USNA midshipmen]
Cadets rank just below WO-1 USMA, ROTC and then OCS
Table 1 –1
Grades, Army— Continued
W-2 Pay grade; Title of address: Chief/Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms.
Abbreviation: CW2
W-1 Pay grade: W –1; Title of address: Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms.
Abbreviation: WO1
USMA Cadets; Cadet, U.S. Military Academy; Pay grade: Special; Title of address: Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms./Cadet
Abbreviation: CDT
ROTC cadet Grade: Cadet, Senior Advanced Reserve Officer’s Training Corps (ROTC); Pay grade: Special; Title of address: Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms./Cadet
Abbreviation: CDT
Officer Candidate School Candidates; Pay grade: Special; Title of address: Candidate
Abbreviation: OC
Warrant Officer Candidate; Pay grade: Special; Title of address: Candidate
Abbreviation: WOC
Enlisted noncommissioned officers
Sergeant Major of the Army; Pay grade: E –9; Title of address: Sergeant Major
Command Sergeant Major2; Pay grade: E –9; Title of address: Sergeant Major
Sergeant Major [3]; Pay grade: E –9; Title of address: Sergeant Major
First Sergeant; Pay grade: E –8; Title of address: First Sergeant
Master Sergeant; Pay grade: E –8; Title of address: Sergeant
Sergeant First Class; Pay grade: E –7; Title of address: Sergeant
As an ROTC cadet you ranked below USMA cadets, above OCS cadets, below WO-1 and above NCOs
Per AR 600–20 • 24 July 2020 5 [USN/USMC personnel reg applies to USNA midshipmen]
Cadets rank just below WO-1 USMA, ROTC and then OCS
Table 1 –1
Grades, Army— Continued
W-2 Pay grade; Title of address: Chief/Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms.
Abbreviation: CW2
W-1 Pay grade: W –1; Title of address: Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms.
Abbreviation: WO1
USMA Cadets; Cadet, U.S. Military Academy; Pay grade: Special; Title of address: Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms./Cadet
Abbreviation: CDT
ROTC cadet Grade: Cadet, Senior Advanced Reserve Officer’s Training Corps (ROTC); Pay grade: Special; Title of address: Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms./Cadet
Abbreviation: CDT
Officer Candidate School Candidates; Pay grade: Special; Title of address: Candidate
Abbreviation: OC
Warrant Officer Candidate; Pay grade: Special; Title of address: Candidate
Abbreviation: WOC
Enlisted noncommissioned officers
Sergeant Major of the Army; Pay grade: E –9; Title of address: Sergeant Major
Command Sergeant Major2; Pay grade: E –9; Title of address: Sergeant Major
Sergeant Major [3]; Pay grade: E –9; Title of address: Sergeant Major
First Sergeant; Pay grade: E –8; Title of address: First Sergeant
Master Sergeant; Pay grade: E –8; Title of address: Sergeant
Sergeant First Class; Pay grade: E –7; Title of address: Sergeant
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My dad told me a story that would explain his take on brand new 2LT’s. In his last assignment he was the Signal Bde SGM (the rank of CSM hadn’t been established as yet) the Colonel called my dad into his office and introduced him the a recent West Point Grad 2LT and asked my dad to show him around. Dad protested and said something to the effect of, I really don’t have the time to nurse mate a new 2LT. Then the Colonel said please. My dad broke and said OK, and then he turned to the new 2LT and said, “i’m Calling you Mister until you’ve been in the Army for six months, you have to earn my respect.” The 2LT looked at the Colonel for support to which the Colonel said, “you heard my SGM, Mister, carry on.”
When I was in the Special Forces Training Group 1968, (now called the Q Course) I was on a detail sweeping the loading dock behind the offices. A 1LT ran up the steps shouting, “WHO’S F&%$ING RED VW IS PARKED IN MY PARKING SPOT WITH MY NAME!” The SSG in charge of the detail said, “Sir, that’s the CSM’s car, I’ll tell him to move his car out of your parking slot.” The LT responded, “Uh no, don’t bother CSM Childress I’ll just park across the street.”
Two examples. By the time an NCO makes it to E-9 he’s been through some shit. My dad served as a SO in Detachment 101, OSS in the CBI. And CSM Childress earned his CIB in Korea and during one battle was only one of two soldiers left in the platoon. Also remember, like my dad enlisting in the Army in 1936. All of his Company Officers made a lot of rank in WWII. He told me of two that were in the Pentagon one as a 2 Star and the other a 3 Star and he had their direct phone numbers. In my case my 18A of A-401 5th Special Forces Group was Captain Mike Canavan. We spoke over the phone while he commanded JSOC as a Major General and he told me that if anybody and I mean anybody call me; if I can’t help you certainly General Shelton can. (At the time the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs and he wore a long tab). I placed Lt General Canavan’s photoi above my desk. All of you young brand new 2LT’s remember what I’ve written, the SGM’s and the CSM’s are walking Gods and didn’t get to that level just on looks. I inserted a photo of my dad and just look at his face; would you be comfortable chewing him out. The other photo shows the team he was on, Team Antelope, dad is in the back row far left. He jumped into China on three missions, two DA (direct action to interdict supply lines and blow bridges of the Japanese Army in China and one SR (Special Recon) jumped in to pinpoint the Japanese Army ravaging China, several teams were inserted for this mission. Dad wore 3 stars on his jump wings, each insertion counted as a combat jump.
Sorry, I do have one more example. I showed up at the Ft Sam Houston photoshop for a DA Photo. There was a new 2LT already in his uniform with his two ribbons. One other NCO and I arrived and put on our uniforms. The other E-7 was a Nammer like myself having served with the 101st Airborne and I finished getting dressed. When the 101st NCO made eye contact with me we both smiled and nodded. He had six rows and with my 7 rows to include a BS w/V plus all the other stuff, Special Forces Tab Master Blaster Wings, CIB, SF Combat Patch and 9 service stripes we sat down. The photographer came out and asked ‘NEXT’ and we looked at the 2LT to go ahead and said, “no you guys go ahead you’ve earned the right.” That’s a 2LT that’s going to go far in the Army.
When I was in the Special Forces Training Group 1968, (now called the Q Course) I was on a detail sweeping the loading dock behind the offices. A 1LT ran up the steps shouting, “WHO’S F&%$ING RED VW IS PARKED IN MY PARKING SPOT WITH MY NAME!” The SSG in charge of the detail said, “Sir, that’s the CSM’s car, I’ll tell him to move his car out of your parking slot.” The LT responded, “Uh no, don’t bother CSM Childress I’ll just park across the street.”
Two examples. By the time an NCO makes it to E-9 he’s been through some shit. My dad served as a SO in Detachment 101, OSS in the CBI. And CSM Childress earned his CIB in Korea and during one battle was only one of two soldiers left in the platoon. Also remember, like my dad enlisting in the Army in 1936. All of his Company Officers made a lot of rank in WWII. He told me of two that were in the Pentagon one as a 2 Star and the other a 3 Star and he had their direct phone numbers. In my case my 18A of A-401 5th Special Forces Group was Captain Mike Canavan. We spoke over the phone while he commanded JSOC as a Major General and he told me that if anybody and I mean anybody call me; if I can’t help you certainly General Shelton can. (At the time the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs and he wore a long tab). I placed Lt General Canavan’s photoi above my desk. All of you young brand new 2LT’s remember what I’ve written, the SGM’s and the CSM’s are walking Gods and didn’t get to that level just on looks. I inserted a photo of my dad and just look at his face; would you be comfortable chewing him out. The other photo shows the team he was on, Team Antelope, dad is in the back row far left. He jumped into China on three missions, two DA (direct action to interdict supply lines and blow bridges of the Japanese Army in China and one SR (Special Recon) jumped in to pinpoint the Japanese Army ravaging China, several teams were inserted for this mission. Dad wore 3 stars on his jump wings, each insertion counted as a combat jump.
Sorry, I do have one more example. I showed up at the Ft Sam Houston photoshop for a DA Photo. There was a new 2LT already in his uniform with his two ribbons. One other NCO and I arrived and put on our uniforms. The other E-7 was a Nammer like myself having served with the 101st Airborne and I finished getting dressed. When the 101st NCO made eye contact with me we both smiled and nodded. He had six rows and with my 7 rows to include a BS w/V plus all the other stuff, Special Forces Tab Master Blaster Wings, CIB, SF Combat Patch and 9 service stripes we sat down. The photographer came out and asked ‘NEXT’ and we looked at the 2LT to go ahead and said, “no you guys go ahead you’ve earned the right.” That’s a 2LT that’s going to go far in the Army.
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CPT William Jones
When I wasin RVN I had to go to the !st Div morning security update as we were on their baseand I was my unit S2 as a Cpt and made friends with another outsider A MSG and we both were given a little friendly static by the 1 Div people there. While visiting my buddie MSG found out he had CIB with two stars,WW11 & Korea been riffed and was sweating being promoted to O6 as he was retiring in a couple weeks and would like the extra pay. Well He made it and was retiring in country and was taking the long way homeHad aretirement parade after the Briefing so wore His green Class A complete with ribbons and badges.And just walked in like the MSG that was yesterday. Blew everyones mind including the 1Div hazers.Only person in room who knew about the secret he had I got a real good laugh.
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Cpl Gabriel F.
Your old man was one tough dog face. A soldiers, soldier. A honor just to observe his photograph and read his history. Thank you much. The knowledge and skills he gained cannot be found in the manual. We can only learn from those that have done such deeds. Know his is proud of your accomplishments. Old soldiers never die. Carrying on.
Respectfully, Fostek, G.
Respectfully, Fostek, G.
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LTC Stephen F.
FYI MSG Mark Stinsonthanks for posting the pictures of your dad and sharing your father's background and your own - kudos for your service to this nation.
Per AR 600–20 • 24 July 2020 5 [USN/USMC personnel reg applies to USNA midshipmen]
Cadets rank just below WO-1 USMA, ROTC and then OCS
Table 1 –1
Grades, Army— Continued
W-2 Pay grade; Title of address: Chief/Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms.
Abbreviation: CW2
W-1 Pay grade: W –1; Title of address: Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms.
Abbreviation: WO1
USMA Cadets; Cadet, U.S. Military Academy; Pay grade: Special; Title of address: Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms./Cadet
Abbreviation: CDT
ROTC cadet Grade: Cadet, Senior Advanced Reserve Officer’s Training Corps (ROTC); Pay grade: Special; Title of address: Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms./Cadet
Abbreviation: CDT
Officer Candidate School Candidates; Pay grade: Special; Title of address: Candidate
Abbreviation: OC
Warrant Officer Candidate; Pay grade: Special; Title of address: Candidate
Abbreviation: WOC
Enlisted noncommissioned officers
Sergeant Major of the Army; Pay grade: E –9; Title of address: Sergeant Major
Command Sergeant Major2; Pay grade: E –9; Title of address: Sergeant Major
Sergeant Major [3]; Pay grade: E –9; Title of address: Sergeant Major
First Sergeant; Pay grade: E –8; Title of address: First Sergeant
Master Sergeant; Pay grade: E –8; Title of address: Sergeant
Sergeant First Class; Pay grade: E –7; Title of address: Sergeant
Per AR 600–20 • 24 July 2020 5 [USN/USMC personnel reg applies to USNA midshipmen]
Cadets rank just below WO-1 USMA, ROTC and then OCS
Table 1 –1
Grades, Army— Continued
W-2 Pay grade; Title of address: Chief/Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms.
Abbreviation: CW2
W-1 Pay grade: W –1; Title of address: Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms.
Abbreviation: WO1
USMA Cadets; Cadet, U.S. Military Academy; Pay grade: Special; Title of address: Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms./Cadet
Abbreviation: CDT
ROTC cadet Grade: Cadet, Senior Advanced Reserve Officer’s Training Corps (ROTC); Pay grade: Special; Title of address: Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms./Cadet
Abbreviation: CDT
Officer Candidate School Candidates; Pay grade: Special; Title of address: Candidate
Abbreviation: OC
Warrant Officer Candidate; Pay grade: Special; Title of address: Candidate
Abbreviation: WOC
Enlisted noncommissioned officers
Sergeant Major of the Army; Pay grade: E –9; Title of address: Sergeant Major
Command Sergeant Major2; Pay grade: E –9; Title of address: Sergeant Major
Sergeant Major [3]; Pay grade: E –9; Title of address: Sergeant Major
First Sergeant; Pay grade: E –8; Title of address: First Sergeant
Master Sergeant; Pay grade: E –8; Title of address: Sergeant
Sergeant First Class; Pay grade: E –7; Title of address: Sergeant
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If the Cadet wants to be “in charge,” let him! The first time he falls on his ass or gets an ass-chewing…remind him, “Sir, remember, you’re in charge!”
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SGT (Join to see)
One approach might be to try and talk through the problem. Identify your concerns, ensure she/he identifies their concerns and fight the enemy and the problem - not each other. Barring that, if either side fails to yield, allow the first sergeant/commander resolve the issue. Focus on the mission, if a bad decision has been made, focus on your people and ensuring they are ok. Do not focus on the disagreement - its just unproductive.
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CW2 (Join to see)
MSG Lonnie Averkamp
Had I LT like this come to be the S4 with no logistics experience trying to be the boss and tell me what to do. Me having 20+ years telling the LT what would work and not and how to attack problems wouldn’t have it. I let the LT run the show and fail miserably.
Had I LT like this come to be the S4 with no logistics experience trying to be the boss and tell me what to do. Me having 20+ years telling the LT what would work and not and how to attack problems wouldn’t have it. I let the LT run the show and fail miserably.
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MSG Lonnie Averkamp
CW2 (Join to see) - Air-Borne. Sometimes, we may have to kick the stool out from under a poor leader, but generally, they will fall on their own, if we just stop holding it for them.
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LTC Stephen F.
FYI SFC Christopher Taggart
Per AR 600–20 • 24 July 2020 5 [USN/USMC personnel reg applies to USNA midshipmen]
Cadets rank just below WO-1 USMA, ROTC and then OCS
Table 1 –1
Grades, Army— Continued
W-2 Pay grade; Title of address: Chief/Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms.
Abbreviation: CW2
W-1 Pay grade: W –1; Title of address: Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms.
Abbreviation: WO1
USMA Cadets; Cadet, U.S. Military Academy; Pay grade: Special; Title of address: Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms./Cadet
Abbreviation: CDT
ROTC cadet Grade: Cadet, Senior Advanced Reserve Officer’s Training Corps (ROTC); Pay grade: Special; Title of address: Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms./Cadet
Abbreviation: CDT
Officer Candidate School Candidates; Pay grade: Special; Title of address: Candidate
Abbreviation: OC
Warrant Officer Candidate; Pay grade: Special; Title of address: Candidate
Abbreviation: WOC
Enlisted noncommissioned officers
Sergeant Major of the Army; Pay grade: E –9; Title of address: Sergeant Major
Command Sergeant Major2; Pay grade: E –9; Title of address: Sergeant Major
Sergeant Major [3]; Pay grade: E –9; Title of address: Sergeant Major
First Sergeant; Pay grade: E –8; Title of address: First Sergeant
Master Sergeant; Pay grade: E –8; Title of address: Sergeant
Sergeant First Class; Pay grade: E –7; Title of address: Sergeant
Per AR 600–20 • 24 July 2020 5 [USN/USMC personnel reg applies to USNA midshipmen]
Cadets rank just below WO-1 USMA, ROTC and then OCS
Table 1 –1
Grades, Army— Continued
W-2 Pay grade; Title of address: Chief/Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms.
Abbreviation: CW2
W-1 Pay grade: W –1; Title of address: Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms.
Abbreviation: WO1
USMA Cadets; Cadet, U.S. Military Academy; Pay grade: Special; Title of address: Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms./Cadet
Abbreviation: CDT
ROTC cadet Grade: Cadet, Senior Advanced Reserve Officer’s Training Corps (ROTC); Pay grade: Special; Title of address: Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms./Cadet
Abbreviation: CDT
Officer Candidate School Candidates; Pay grade: Special; Title of address: Candidate
Abbreviation: OC
Warrant Officer Candidate; Pay grade: Special; Title of address: Candidate
Abbreviation: WOC
Enlisted noncommissioned officers
Sergeant Major of the Army; Pay grade: E –9; Title of address: Sergeant Major
Command Sergeant Major2; Pay grade: E –9; Title of address: Sergeant Major
Sergeant Major [3]; Pay grade: E –9; Title of address: Sergeant Major
First Sergeant; Pay grade: E –8; Title of address: First Sergeant
Master Sergeant; Pay grade: E –8; Title of address: Sergeant
Sergeant First Class; Pay grade: E –7; Title of address: Sergeant
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