Do morals and values still matter?

Just as an additional item to provide some context for the notion that rank exempts from responsibility, would anybody care to weigh the treatment of Generals Ward and Baker for their improprieties against the perceived treatment of Petreaus?

Morals are relative to the society. So they matter to us, but it differs in each segment of our society as well. The morals of a commune in Utah differ hugely from the morals in LA. Values are the same, but at the individual level. Organizations can not have values, because by their very definition, they require people to "value" them. I have asked everyone I ever briefed at an incoming soldier meeting to tell me what the most valuable thing in their life was...invariably...it was family. There's no "F" in the acronym LDRSHIP. Anyhow, ethics matter. Each segment of society, including ours have ethics. You broach the bright red line of the ethics boundary and you get punished. Plain and simple...usually. Then there is the relative worth of the individual to take into account. Nothing is black and white. A drugged up sex offender with no marketable skills beyond a low crawl and a good shot group has little to provide to the nation in comparison to GEN Petraeus. Throwing the proverbial baby out with the bathwater would be a loss to the nation as a whole. Same thing with McCrystal. These men have something invaluable which they have learned and if we don't use it, then it will go to waste. They have taken their lumps and moved on. Ethics matter...but only to the extent of the UCMJ completion in relation to their relative worth to society.

Principles over party. Principles over interests. The problem is that as a nation we've changed perspectives. If we want to return to who we were at our height of freedom and being the shining city on the hill - we have to put principles on top again.

Do morals and values still matter? To good leaders and followers yes. I think some leaders become so insulated from being questioned about their decisions they lose touch. They lose their way and ability to be a good leader.

Personally I think Gen. Petraeus was honey potted but that is something totally different.

Also, I think we just have more and easier access to the personal dealings of our leaders then ever before. You don't think Patton bagged a few while in Europe? Sure he did...but the difference is the technology we have todat compared to then. Not to mention men didn't gossip like they do now.

Yes they do. If we don't have morals and values, and live them, then what good are we as leaders? In society, perhaps, but not in the military. The recent reports on lying among the officer Corps is telling. Only we can fix that. Sex, Power, and Money... can lead to "Power Corrupts" and if you don't have a rock solid moral compass, you can easily succumb.

LCDR Jaron Matlow, morals and values always matter.

I believe that morals and values do mater, but... In this day and age we see countless talking heads speak volumes on correct moral code, ethics in use or excellent values. Even on here I have seen many speak up about morality with the air of superiority of themselves.

But the problem is, and it was well stated above, we are human. We are all tested differently. Our Morals, are values are all different. The thing is loneliness, loss, fear, hate, anger, are all the same. (Insert Star Wars reference in here for a smile). I have seen strong men, felled by loss, brilliant women at a loss for words over fear. Some times we take solace in the arms of others because the ones we want are not there. Love or Lust, which ever you like, makes men and women do some amazingly weird things!

Now our Leaders, elected leaders and so on. I don't see any big moral offense except that of money. OHHHH that money, some of these elected officials should have to wear corporate patches like NASCAR racers. Instead of the state they are from, maybe the Businesses they represent? Sad thing is, this is legal. The people who make the laws, made a law that says they are allowed to be given money from private businesses to make laws for those corporations. And the supreme court said "Sure!"

This is what our children see. Media slanting information to push their agenda, politicians getting away with stuff that mobsters in Chicago in the 1920's would be proud of. It is this loss in morals and values that is what bugs me most.

My solution.. well simple. Vote. engage with our representatives. Tell them "we don't want this" make laws against giving money to politicians. They should serve the people, not their wallets.

Rant over.. :) May the Force be with you.

They do matter. All of us are imperfect and will make mistakes. The issue is always how do you adjust or correct for a mistake. To use the General Patraeus scenario, he knew he crossed a line when he had an affair. He is a married man. He could have stopped at one incident but chose not to. She was also in his command structure I believe and was an Army (NG) officer to boot. He chose to continue down the path for personal pleasure and gain and risked it all.

If he also transferred confidential information (which it appears he did) then he crossed another line for personal pleasure and gain and likely did so more than once.

The General failed the test. He might have had a stellar career but when the chips were down and he was in the power seat he abused his authority and power and compromised classified information.

I have a theory about this sort of stuff and it is that it is highly unlikely that he was caught on his first and only lapse of judgment. There are likely other skeletons in that closet unfortunately.

Had this been an NCO or junior officer my guess is the punishment would have been more severe and immediate. He was cut a break for his years of service which should be considered.

Speaking of the US at large, when the rules and regulations change to favor short term performance over long term results we are on a course set for disaster...

If your bonus and continued employment is tied to this quarter's results, what morals and values are you operating under?

http://www.strategicstudiesinstitute.army.mil/pdffiles/PUB1250.pdf
LYING TO OURSELVES: DISHONESTY IN THE ARMY PROFESSION
This study found that many Army officers, after repeated exposure to the overwhelming demands and the associated need to put their honor on the line to verify compliance, have become ethically numb. As a result, an officer’s signature and word have become tools to maneuver through the Army bureaucracy rather than being symbols of integrity and honesty. Sadly, much of the deception that occurs in the profession of arms is encouraged and sanctioned by the military institution as subordinates are forced to prioritize which requirements will actually be done to standard and which will only be reported as done to standard. As a result, untruthfulness is surprisingly common in the U.S. military even though members of the profession are loath to admit it.

.... We continue by examining the effect on individuals and analyze how ethical fading and rationalizing allow individuals to convince themselves that their honor and integrity are intact despite ethical compromise. ...