Posted on Apr 15, 2017
Do the Army combat identification badge and the combat action badge not go hand in hand?
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Why do some soldiers have both and some have either or?
Badges
Awards
Uniforms
Combat Patch (SSI-FWTS)
Posted 8 y ago
Responses: 22
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I'm authorized 2 CSIBs but do not have a CAB or CIB. The CSIB indicates the unit a Soldier deployed with. Everyone who deploys to a combat zone, regardless of their role or level of contact experienced, earns the right to wear one. A combat action badge is awarded for direct contact with the enemy. Many people have deployed multiple times and not had direct contact with an enemy force.
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MCPO (Join to see)
CPL M Miller - Not wrong at all. If you want the CIB, you should have chosen the 11 or 18 series for your MOS. You want the CMFB, you should have chosen to be a medic.
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Sgt Dale Briggs
Seems strange to be an 03 and you get a badge for pulling the trigger, it’s your job and it’s what your supposed to do. Don’t need a badge.
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CPL M Miller
MCPO (Join to see) - So what you say is that all MOS are not soldiers first? If an MOS outside of that you describe does all required but does not get recognized for the same job? simply because they were not in an MTOE SLOT?
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SGT(P) (Join to see)
CPL M Miller - They get a CAB not a CIB, the truth is, only certain MOS do direct action. Other MOS may simply be put in the situation an infantryman could be in, but the fact still stands that you didn't sign up as a "Human Resources Specialist" to kick doors in. But to be honest who cares? Do you really want to be that desk jockey that brags about that one time he got shot at?
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The CIB is for your Infantry guy's that engage in combat actively. The CAB created because of the conflicts and type of warfare we have been fighting for over 15 years. The intent was to give all non combat MOS's a device just like the CIB, because only Infantry can receive that device for coming in contact with enemy. The battle field of these conflicts changed because of IED's and support forces needing to operate outside the wire in the same Areas as Infantry unit's, but not exactly direct Action Combat, more defensive turning into offensive to kill the enemy or defend themselves. Todays Battlefield does not have the old FEBA (Forward Edge Battle Area) and FLOT (Forward Line Of Troops) concept. You can also be an Infantry guy and because you are on a JTF that is none infantry and come in contact you can not receive the CIB, because it is not an Infantry type unit, but yet they are still exposed to enemy contact. Now I am Navy but was on a JTF in Iraq and was NCOIC, so I had to write some up and did write one Infantry and Marine up, the 11B did not like it because CIB is what an infantry guy should have.
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SSG Matthew Searcy
1SG David Spalding - Not even close to correct, Top. With all due respect, unf*ck yourself. (Source - Pogue with a CAB and Bronze Star for engaging in a complex IED/DF attack in Iraq.)
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SPC Herold Bush
CPO (Join to see) - Chief , I think you might be overlapping on some of your breakdown of the Army Branches,, Combat Arms is made up of the following branches: Combat Arms : Air Defense Artillery, Armor, Aviation, Engineers, Field Artillery, Infantry, and Special Operations Forces, Cyber. Combat Support is made up: Chemical Corps, Military Intelligence, Military Police Corps , Signal Corps , Combat Service Support is Adjutant General Corps ,Chaplain Corps, Finance Corps, Medical Corps, Ordnance Corps, Quartermaster Corps, Transportation Corps. And the Cavalry is definitely a combat mos.
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MSG Thomas Currie
LTC Gene Moser - NO Armor units received CIBs in Vietnam - some people in some Armored Cavalry units did receive a CIB.
Consider the situation back then. An Armored Cavalry platoon consisted of 10 identical combat vehicles. Nine of those ten identical vehicles were crewed by 11D personnel, one was crewed by 11B personnel. All performed exactly the same mission under exactly the same conditions every minute of every day. The 11B personnel automatically got the CIB. The 11D personnel got nothing. So, yes, some commanders would use their valid authority to reclass some of the 11D's to 11B and rotate everyone through the TO&E slots to legitimately receive the badge they earned.
Was that the right thing to do? Maybe, maybe not. It certainly would have been morally and logically better if the army had been willing to acknowledge that Infantry had ceased to be the only or even primary combat arm, but that never happened - and never will.
Throughout most of GWOT the Army insisted on believing that "A brigade is a brigade is a brigade" with every combat arms brigade equal and interchangeable. The entire unit deployment system hinged on that false assumption. That same attitude trickled down within the brigades, so that commanders pretended that A Battalion is a battalion is a battalion and even a company is a company is a company -- regardless of branch, regardless of TO&E, regardless of unit strength, regardless of unit organization. That's how the Army ended up rotating out a light infantry company and replacing it with an artillery battery assigned the same mission covering the same area. That's how the Army ended up rotating tank battalions to Iraq without any tanks, letting them use the same HMMWVs that the infantry battalion before them used to patrol the same area. But, of course, "Infantry" are the only soldiers who really engage in direct combat.
Consider the situation back then. An Armored Cavalry platoon consisted of 10 identical combat vehicles. Nine of those ten identical vehicles were crewed by 11D personnel, one was crewed by 11B personnel. All performed exactly the same mission under exactly the same conditions every minute of every day. The 11B personnel automatically got the CIB. The 11D personnel got nothing. So, yes, some commanders would use their valid authority to reclass some of the 11D's to 11B and rotate everyone through the TO&E slots to legitimately receive the badge they earned.
Was that the right thing to do? Maybe, maybe not. It certainly would have been morally and logically better if the army had been willing to acknowledge that Infantry had ceased to be the only or even primary combat arm, but that never happened - and never will.
Throughout most of GWOT the Army insisted on believing that "A brigade is a brigade is a brigade" with every combat arms brigade equal and interchangeable. The entire unit deployment system hinged on that false assumption. That same attitude trickled down within the brigades, so that commanders pretended that A Battalion is a battalion is a battalion and even a company is a company is a company -- regardless of branch, regardless of TO&E, regardless of unit strength, regardless of unit organization. That's how the Army ended up rotating out a light infantry company and replacing it with an artillery battery assigned the same mission covering the same area. That's how the Army ended up rotating tank battalions to Iraq without any tanks, letting them use the same HMMWVs that the infantry battalion before them used to patrol the same area. But, of course, "Infantry" are the only soldiers who really engage in direct combat.
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Just to clarify, the "Combat Identification Badge", are you talking about Shoulder Sleeve Insignia (SSI)? In that case, the patch is called the SSI-FWTS or Should Sleeve Insignia for Former Wartime Service.
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SSG (Join to see)
My CIB and blue cord just peed their pants when I thought he was interpreting "CIB" as "combat identification badge."
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You get a CSIB for being deployed to a hostile fire area - whether or not hostile fire occurred is not relevant, just that you were there.
CABs (and CIBs and CMBs) require direct engagement with the enemy.
CABs (and CIBs and CMBs) require direct engagement with the enemy.
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SSG David Stafne
I got out in ‘93 and understand a lot has changed. Back then they CIB was only awarded to Infantrymen in an Infantry billet at an Infantry Brigade level or below. Does the Brigade level and below requirement apply to the CAB?
During Desert Storm an Infantry PLT from the 10th MTN DIV was deployed, they were mission was to provide perimeter security for an ADA Site, some 25 miles from the front line. None of them received a CIB because they were OpCon to the ADA Unit which was a Corps asset; they weren’t Infantry and above Brigade level.
During Desert Storm an Infantry PLT from the 10th MTN DIV was deployed, they were mission was to provide perimeter security for an ADA Site, some 25 miles from the front line. None of them received a CIB because they were OpCon to the ADA Unit which was a Corps asset; they weren’t Infantry and above Brigade level.
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1SG (Join to see)
SSG David Stafne - No the rules are the same for the CIB and the CAB does not have an echelon requirement, just that you were engaged by the enemy.
That GW platoon got screwed, because they were in Infantry unit (platoon) below brigade. It doesn't matter who they were attached to. If they were in Division HQ, those are the guys that don't get the CIB because they are at echelons above brigade.
That GW platoon got screwed, because they were in Infantry unit (platoon) below brigade. It doesn't matter who they were attached to. If they were in Division HQ, those are the guys that don't get the CIB because they are at echelons above brigade.
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CIB dates from WWll, CAB should have never been authorized. It was to pacify Soldiers who couldn't get a CIB,
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MSG Johancharles Boers
What about you Scouts, Tamkers and other brothers who earn the CAB....that stand side by side with you in a fire fight - you don’t feel they deserve recognition...
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LTC Ray B. (Ret)
Don’t spread unsubstantiated rumors. That’s how stupid people increase their ignorance
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SFC (Join to see)
I was a cook working as personal security for the Battalion CO
Of a Infantry BN. We were ambushed in Hoe A Boshe, Taji, Iraq. I was awarded the CAB for direct contact with the enemy while the LTC and the HHC CO who was with us were awarded the CIB
Of a Infantry BN. We were ambushed in Hoe A Boshe, Taji, Iraq. I was awarded the CAB for direct contact with the enemy while the LTC and the HHC CO who was with us were awarded the CIB
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The combat patch is earned after being in a combat zone for a set period of time, the CAB is earned if you take direct fire in action as a non infantry participant.
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All of my 'stuff' is in the same box that it has all been in for 25 years Thank God
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The CIB, CMB or CAB are awarded for actual combat operations and if you get either one you can't get the other. Why is that?. I think it is about time that the Combat Arms Units get some sort of award, showing that they were engaged with the enemy, however in Vietnam there wasn't anything except the CIB and CMB. As an 11E I wasn't given anything although by percentage the MOS had the highest causality rate of any MOS. I did however get the CIB because I had the the 11B duty MOS for 6 weeks. I am not sure that I like the fact that a supply clerk gets a been there medal (CSIB) though.
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1SG (Join to see)
And to clarify the Mos for the youngins, 11E in the Vietnam area was an Armor Crewman
= Tanker
= Tanker
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SFC David Xanten
1SG (Join to see) - It also included the PC Drivers, which I think was the reason so many 11E's were killed. I hit two mines while I was an 11B40 and 11D40, before getting my Tank which also hit 7 mines before the 8th put a hole in the belly armor. Mines were more of a nuisance to Tanks but a real problem for the PC's.
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I think there may be some confusion about badges in the question.
The CIB is the Combat Infantry Badge, not identifier. As for the CAB, this award was designed for those whose jobs took them to the non existent front line. So if you were under direct fire, within a certain distance of a detonation, or earned a Purple Heart. I know there are more qualifiers than that, but it's a simple answer.
I believe the refs state that the CIB, and the CAB can not be worn together.
The only way the CAB is automatic is if you received the Purple Heart.
I think you meant the CSIB, that's just like your unit patch, but you get it for service in a combat zone for a specified amount of time. 30 days in country, air crews and Navy accumulated days towards the 30 day mark, or if you were WIA prior to the 30 day mark, but the 30 days may have been changed since I was retired in 2008.
The CIB is the Combat Infantry Badge, not identifier. As for the CAB, this award was designed for those whose jobs took them to the non existent front line. So if you were under direct fire, within a certain distance of a detonation, or earned a Purple Heart. I know there are more qualifiers than that, but it's a simple answer.
I believe the refs state that the CIB, and the CAB can not be worn together.
The only way the CAB is automatic is if you received the Purple Heart.
I think you meant the CSIB, that's just like your unit patch, but you get it for service in a combat zone for a specified amount of time. 30 days in country, air crews and Navy accumulated days towards the 30 day mark, or if you were WIA prior to the 30 day mark, but the 30 days may have been changed since I was retired in 2008.
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LTC Ray B. (Ret)
My branch took me outside wire everyday . My 11b bro’s got their CIBs and I got the CAB. Everyday was a fight.
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