Posted on Jun 25, 2015
Do You Buy This? A Unique form of Combat Stress for our Drone Pilots (Remotely Piloted Aircraft)???
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Obviously, despite my efforts not to.... I see the world, and DOD, from a ground Soldiers perspective. And, I suspect there is stress in all sorts of jobs.
I understand pilots (actual and remotely piloted aircraft - drones) have to face different dangers than I did, as well as live the the decisions they make and the damage and collateral damage of their strikes. But, I can't see this as a combat stress. And, I have never walked in those shoes either.
I did considerable research in grad school on shell shock, combat stress, combat related stress disorder, and the PTSD (the current term), and I am not sure I know enough about this new term, but I know when I read the article I actually laughed out loud... As, I just can't see this - feel this.
I know I lived by (shared a duplex) an F-15 pilot in Europe who would fly "Allied Force" Sorties and be back home each night... drinking... I know B2s fly from Whiteman and come back in a day... And, I know whenever I deployed, they were progressively longer... and conditions were not up to the standards my Air Force brothers consider adequate... Again, likely from my very jaded perspective is what probably made laugh out loud.
I also know I have PTSD, and TBI, and that I attended a lot of memorial ceremonies, presented a lot of Purple Hearts, and dealt with more than one incident of collateral damage.
So, help me understand... Because I want to understand this from the USAF perspective.
Claire McCaskill is my senator, and I actually sat in her office several times with my boss, and got scuffed up on issues in the Army and Fort Leonard Wood. She is a huge military advocate, and an unspoken watchdog and critic too.
But, again, I not seeing this one.
http://www.airforcetimes.com/story/military/capitol-hill/2015/06/24/sen-claire-mccaskill-wants-pentagon-to-address-new-form-of-combat-stress/29248023/
I understand pilots (actual and remotely piloted aircraft - drones) have to face different dangers than I did, as well as live the the decisions they make and the damage and collateral damage of their strikes. But, I can't see this as a combat stress. And, I have never walked in those shoes either.
I did considerable research in grad school on shell shock, combat stress, combat related stress disorder, and the PTSD (the current term), and I am not sure I know enough about this new term, but I know when I read the article I actually laughed out loud... As, I just can't see this - feel this.
I know I lived by (shared a duplex) an F-15 pilot in Europe who would fly "Allied Force" Sorties and be back home each night... drinking... I know B2s fly from Whiteman and come back in a day... And, I know whenever I deployed, they were progressively longer... and conditions were not up to the standards my Air Force brothers consider adequate... Again, likely from my very jaded perspective is what probably made laugh out loud.
I also know I have PTSD, and TBI, and that I attended a lot of memorial ceremonies, presented a lot of Purple Hearts, and dealt with more than one incident of collateral damage.
So, help me understand... Because I want to understand this from the USAF perspective.
Claire McCaskill is my senator, and I actually sat in her office several times with my boss, and got scuffed up on issues in the Army and Fort Leonard Wood. She is a huge military advocate, and an unspoken watchdog and critic too.
But, again, I not seeing this one.
http://www.airforcetimes.com/story/military/capitol-hill/2015/06/24/sen-claire-mccaskill-wants-pentagon-to-address-new-form-of-combat-stress/29248023/
PTSD
Combat Stress Control
Stress
Drones
Edited 9 y ago
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 45
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I'm quite certain they experience PTS, but seeing the effects of your efforts first hand, watching your brothers and closest friens get injured and killed right in front of you, and having to deal with that while turning around and heading right back out to do it again would have a greater impact in my opinion.
In either situation there are stressors at play. Both have a very real mental effect on a person. Is one more severe than the other? I don't think anyone can answer that. Everyone that experiences PTS reacts mentally and physiologically in their own way.
My own personal perspective and experience leads me to feel as though being physically present would lead to a more severe reaction. The issue with my view is that we all cope with the stressors of the exact same situation different than the others that were present. So yes, it's real and I buy it, even though I'll always be more biased towards the ground pounder's viewpoint.
In either situation there are stressors at play. Both have a very real mental effect on a person. Is one more severe than the other? I don't think anyone can answer that. Everyone that experiences PTS reacts mentally and physiologically in their own way.
My own personal perspective and experience leads me to feel as though being physically present would lead to a more severe reaction. The issue with my view is that we all cope with the stressors of the exact same situation different than the others that were present. So yes, it's real and I buy it, even though I'll always be more biased towards the ground pounder's viewpoint.
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CPT Pedro Meza
SSG Ben Robeck as a ground pounder you also are required to verify and report the effects of a remote strike, those reports in today's time are very quick. Think of a rolling ambush were your gunner opens up on all standing and you see villagers drop dead or wounded as your vehicle moves, you see all through the windows of your Humvee and later your gunner can not stop talking about it.
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I don't know if would call it a "unique" form of combat stress, rather it is just another form of PTSD that needs recognition. Yes, they are not in mortal danger, but that is not the only form of combat stress. I wouldn't deny that a drone operator/sensor operator is experiencing traumatic stress after they saw a Hellfire missile launched from their aircraft kill an innocent 2 year old who ran into the target area after the missile was launched.
Would we expect a police officer who just shot a person(s) and watched them die, to be able to go home afterwards and not have mental health issues? Why would we expect drone operators to be able to do so?
Would we expect a police officer who just shot a person(s) and watched them die, to be able to go home afterwards and not have mental health issues? Why would we expect drone operators to be able to do so?
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COL Charles Williams
Thanks MSgt (Join to see). It makes more sense after reading a day of comments. The law enforcement analogy has been made more than once, and that makes perfect sense...
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CPT Pedro Meza
MSgt James McKenzie, killing, wounding of civilians next to the Taliban takes a toll on ones souls, no matter how you do it.
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Yes.....why would it not be a cause for PTSD.
I think knowing that you killed people via remote control could be a hard thing to deal with......I know it's not something I would have to wrestle with.
I think knowing that you killed people via remote control could be a hard thing to deal with......I know it's not something I would have to wrestle with.
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CPT Pedro Meza - I'm glad to hear you have come to terms with or at least identified your demons. It is one of the first steps on the road to possible recovery. I'm truly saddened that you think you need to suffer for what you perceive to be wrongs you have done. I wish you nothing but peace, happiness, and recovery in the future.....thank you for sharing.
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CPT Pedro Meza - Great read thank you......but the difference here sir is YOU ARE NOT ALONE. I would venture everyone on this site will do anything and everything in their power to help you with your demons......please always remeber this and don't be unwilling to reach out to your brothers and sisters in arms.
CPT Pedro Meza
MSgt Ronald Stacy - I have no demons, only Angels that ensure that I never return to that path. A warning for all that follow my old path, KARMA.
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Stress is part of the human condition and can be used as a tool to drive behavior. In this case, negative stress can cause you to decide this is not the job for you. Whether or not the stress is indicative of PTSD is up to a health provider who should assist in seeking proper treatment. Each case is different and I don't see a need to put out a blanket order that we need to address this specifically. Is there a regulatory limitation that mandates that PTSD only happens when physically on target? If not then this is a non-issue.
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I don't know...
I don't think you can compare ground combat stressers to that of what a pilot or UAV pilot endures. I think there is a greater case for combat pilots and PTSD... UAV pilots? I am unsure about. Perhaps the sight of ending someone's life? But not the imminent danger stress that combat pilots and ground forces endure.
I don't think you can compare ground combat stressers to that of what a pilot or UAV pilot endures. I think there is a greater case for combat pilots and PTSD... UAV pilots? I am unsure about. Perhaps the sight of ending someone's life? But not the imminent danger stress that combat pilots and ground forces endure.
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COL Charles Williams
SSgt (Join to see) Thanks! I to, am unsure, but based on comments and analogies here... I can see it...
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CPT Pedro Meza
SSgt Justyn A. In my past fear of death was not a problem for me, once I saw the innocents that were caught in the cross fire, I carried the image of a child and a mother begging for 27 years collateral harm, mine.
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IDK, COL Charles Williams
I could see them having some PTSD if that is the question you are asking. This is definitely not a game on the WII or Xbox. Knowing that I am the one that caused the death of anyone would haunt me. Like you said "..as well as live (with) the decisions they make and the damage and collateral damage of their strikes." IDK. This is a tough one.
I could see them having some PTSD if that is the question you are asking. This is definitely not a game on the WII or Xbox. Knowing that I am the one that caused the death of anyone would haunt me. Like you said "..as well as live (with) the decisions they make and the damage and collateral damage of their strikes." IDK. This is a tough one.
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CPT Pedro Meza
SGT Veronica Fugham - Blais, if you were that mother how would you feel. My two year old grandson died of a brain cancer in the arms of my son while I held them both, is that a part of my punishment? We pay for the evil that we do!
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COL Charles Williams
CPT Pedro Meza - As I said, you are not evil, and in my view the world does not work that way. There are many things that can't be explained, but I never believe, they are punishment.
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SGT (Join to see)
I will say this... I really would never want to know that pain. My girl is my everything. If she were taken away, I'd absolutely be nothing
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CPT Pedro Meza
COL Charles Williams, I have learn to believe in Karma, and that is what made me a better CA operative, willing to take an educated chance that I would not be harmed nor killed when I took my gear off.
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COL Charles Williams, I'm certain that I don't know enough about this to provide an educated and intelligent response. However, the surrounding circumstances seem markedly different than what you encountered, and I can't say that I disagree with you.
1LT Sandy Annala
1LT Sandy Annala
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COL Charles Williams
But, LTC Stephen C.. I do want to understand this better... I am working on a PhD is psychology...
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CPT Pedro Meza
In my past fear of death was not a problem for me, once I saw the innocents that were caught in the cross fire, I carried the image of a dying child and a mother begging as I walked away for 27 years collateral harm, mine. I lost my soul that day.
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I'm with you sir, not sure where this is directly heading. I get it that anyone performing a combat operation/mission can present with some kind of stress. Hell driving to work can be stress enough for some of us. Killing by dropping a bomb from the air is a different kind of stress than seeing the guy eye to eye at the working end of your M-16. Both have the moral dilemma of killing attached to them. I think that may be more the direct issue then the "combat stress" of a drone pilot. I also get it that we have to be perceptive of and adaptable to the changing face of warfare and that roles like a remote drone pilot are new and the stress and job data are not as compiled as that of the infantryman and other BOG MOSs. To say this is a genuine concern at this time, I'm not sure if this qualifies.
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COL Charles Williams
MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca I think this about stress, and how we deal with it. Whether it is combat stress is another issues. Law enforcement, Fire, EMS, etc experience huge stress... but it different that combat stress, and drone stress. Stress and PTS comes in and from many things.
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CPT Pedro Meza
MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca, add those killed were non Taliban, children, women, elderly and it is reported back to you a day later. It is worst if your monitor shows that you have non-combats where you will drop death and destruction.
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Honestly I didn't read every comment to see if someone else had mentioned this, but the VA has put out a specific internal policy for recognizing PTSD "combat stressors" for UAV pilots/controllers. Basically recognizing UAV pilots/controllers as experiencing in-service "combat stressors" as a valid stressor for service-connection of PTSD.
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COL Charles Williams
PO1 Dustin Adams Thank you. I am very familiar with PTSD, PTS, and all the other names. No, no one has mentioned this new VA policy. The article sounded like a stretch, even though I understand PTS and that comes from many sources, not just combat. I also posted this to get feedback and gain understanding. The best analogy I saw was equating to what Police or EMS deal with day in and day out. Thank you again!
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Sir,
I think PTSD is overanalyzed by the Veteran community and scrutiny is handed out freely. I have been diagnosed with PTSD, and I have also spent some time working at the Veteran Affairs as a Veteran Service Representative. I have seen PTSD range from a car accident, to a combat incident. Really, PTSD is a subjective ailment and what it would take for one to develop the disorder, would not be the same from person to person. I think that the Veteran community is the biggest critic to another Veteran. From the outside, a lot of the incidents that people claim for this ailment may look insignificant, but until we all walk a mile in another's shoes, who are we to judge?
I think PTSD is overanalyzed by the Veteran community and scrutiny is handed out freely. I have been diagnosed with PTSD, and I have also spent some time working at the Veteran Affairs as a Veteran Service Representative. I have seen PTSD range from a car accident, to a combat incident. Really, PTSD is a subjective ailment and what it would take for one to develop the disorder, would not be the same from person to person. I think that the Veteran community is the biggest critic to another Veteran. From the outside, a lot of the incidents that people claim for this ailment may look insignificant, but until we all walk a mile in another's shoes, who are we to judge?
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COL Charles Williams
SFC Jeff Wonser Thank you for your great comments!!!! I understand PTS well, and the many causes. I just have some issues with this as I said. I am trying to better understand.
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