Posted on May 14, 2019
Do you think that an all volunteer force is sustainable in the future?
5.75K
407
113
60
60
0
Americans serving in the military are less than one percent of the population. 21% of those serving are the children of military veterans; only 10% have parents who never served. Do we have a civilian-military divide? Thoughts?
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 49
I think the all volunteer force is sustainable if we continue to maintain such a small military, in my opinion. What worries me about the young adults that are joining today is how many should not be in the military. The civilian world (main stream media and liberal institutions) has infected them too much and once they get in, they don't get their automatic trophies and promotions or get to do what they want and try to find the easy way out whether it be by saying they have harmful thoughts or life is too hard. This is still the minority of the overall numbers but that number is growing. And there are too many forums teaching these individuals how to work the system. We have an amazing amount of volunteers still but the military needs to be able to be more strict on who they allow in due to their problems and have more leeway to cull the fat quicker. This would save so much time and money and allow us to concentrate on all of our servicemembers that actually need help and not just the 1% taking up all of the time and resources who don't even want to be there in the first place. But I digress...
(27)
(0)
SGT (Join to see)
We’ve Been Handing Out Participation Trophies for 100 Years
In a simpler time, a trophy for participation was just a trophy for participation.
(6)
(0)
For a long time I've believed that compulsory service should be instituted. A very short term activation. Send them to basic. Once it's completed they can choose a job they're qualified for, not just automatic infantry orders. It would be hard from the outset, but I believe that within a decade of children growing up knowing that they would be going into service the waters would smooth.
(21)
(0)
CPL Joseph Elinger
In the IDF all males or females fit to serve go at 18. They are tested for best aptitude vs needs of the services. No college deferments needed. Pass the Pilot aptitude & you may go to a 3 year training program for Fighter Pilot. Their Cyber Division is larger than their infantry.
(2)
(0)
PO2 Christina "Jian" Phillips
I agree SGT. Military or civil service should be mandatory for 2-4 years. Have options and if they stay longer they get the benefits outside of normal informed citizenship. People may actually appreciate their country more.
(0)
(0)
Yes I do. I think we can sustain an all volunteer force for several reasons. 1.) There are a lot of young people out there that will serve because they want to learn a trade and don't want to go to college...they will probably get out after initial term. 2.) There are till a lot of people out there that want to serve out of patriotism...they may stay post initial term may not. 3.) There are those that want to go to college but can't afford it or get loans...they join because of the GI Bill and then leave after initial term to go to college. I think we can sustain the current levels because when we need to go to war we can't keep folks out of the recruiting offices. I believe people will step up and serve when our way of life is threatened...9-11 prime example...couldn't get folks in fast enough. When we need it our nation usually steps up and I think that will continue. I personally believe that everyone and I mean everyone to include physical handicapped (except mentally challenged) personnel should serve a minimum of two years. Those that are handicapped can sit at a desk or a clinic and push papers and open up more bodies to do the fighting etc...just my two pennies. But for the initial question, yes I can see us sustaining without a big divide because in history there has always been a divide.
Maj Marty Hogan
Lt Col Charlie Brown
1stSgt Glenn Brackin
Cpl Craig Morton
SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth
COL Mikel J. Burroughs
SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL
SSG James J. Palmer IV aka "JP4"
LTC Stephen C.
CPL Dave Hoover
PO3 Bob McCord
Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen
Sgt Wayne Wood
PVT James Strait
SGM Erik Marquez
MSgt David Hoffman
MSgt Stephen Council
SGT Elizabeth Scheck
PO1 H Gene Lawrence
Maj Marty Hogan
Lt Col Charlie Brown
1stSgt Glenn Brackin
Cpl Craig Morton
SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth
COL Mikel J. Burroughs
SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL
SSG James J. Palmer IV aka "JP4"
LTC Stephen C.
CPL Dave Hoover
PO3 Bob McCord
Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen
Sgt Wayne Wood
PVT James Strait
SGM Erik Marquez
MSgt David Hoffman
MSgt Stephen Council
SGT Elizabeth Scheck
PO1 H Gene Lawrence
(18)
(0)
SFC Michael D.
There are a lot of handicapped who are still willing and able to fight. I wouldn't sell them short with pushing paperwork. I've seen marathon winners, a one armed man driving a Harley trike. Handicapped doesn't mean what it used to.
(2)
(0)
Yes, I think there is a civilian-military divide, but I don't think eliminating the all-volunteer forcce is the answer. We have enough problems with integrating many of the volunteers that are coming in now into the military culture. Can you imagine the issues we would face if we were to switch to compulsory service?
(10)
(0)
SSG (Join to see)
I agree. I can't remember the source of the report, but I recall hearing at some point during the height of the Iraqi conflict that what the army really needed wasn't more young Privates and Specialists to break down doors or to run convoys but rather seasoned NCOs to lead junior enlisted Soldiers. The military can draft people to fire weapons and drive vehicles, but you can't draft good leaders. While some draftees might have good leadership qualities, I think it's far more efficient for the military to recruit individuals who demonstrate leadership traits rather then just hope enough draftees are good leaders.
(2)
(0)
LTC Jason Mackay
SSG (Join to see) - I think we all want a quick war. It was one of the tenants that Dwight Eisenhower was taught and internalized: never fight alone- have allies. Never fight for long- quick, decisive, wins with the alliances intact. The problem is everyone who wants to take a poke at us knows that's what we want to do. So they have every incentive to start a conflict and just not lose, wear us out. How do you counter a strategy of endless conflict. Most other cultures are looking at 100s if not thousands of years of fighting, conflict, maneuvering, and otherwise festering. I bedding the conflict in each successive generation. Making it a matter of national/racial/ethnic honor, or worse, doing God's will. It is why Kennedy's said "we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and success of liberty."
We all want the quick win. What are we willing to do to get it? Limited war's have become the norm as have compromised objectives. If we are fighting a multigenerational movement, how do you kill and idea and a concept? It's going to take a lot of brute force and ignorance. Are the American people going to support it? It think declared wars would cover a lot of ground with this. People can't blame and Administration, congress can shrug and deflect. The entire Nation with a capital N has to be all in. especially if the next one is against a near peer adversary. It's going to be bare knuckles.
We all want the quick win. What are we willing to do to get it? Limited war's have become the norm as have compromised objectives. If we are fighting a multigenerational movement, how do you kill and idea and a concept? It's going to take a lot of brute force and ignorance. Are the American people going to support it? It think declared wars would cover a lot of ground with this. People can't blame and Administration, congress can shrug and deflect. The entire Nation with a capital N has to be all in. especially if the next one is against a near peer adversary. It's going to be bare knuckles.
(1)
(0)
SSG (Join to see)
LTC Jason Mackay - I don't think it's a coincidence that the endless wars started at the same time we went down the road of not declaring wars and acting as the world's policeman. WW2 was by no means a short war, but our military had a concrete objective for winning the war. I think WW2 would have last far longer then it did if our military was given a nebulous objective like "make the world safe for democracy" or "topple all dictatorships we don't like."
There will always be wars going on in the world, but I don't think that means that our military should always get involved, especially when the conflict has nothing to do with the security of our nation. It strikes me as absurd how the US initially supported Iraq during the Iraq-Iran conflict, but then later on we would capture and kill Saddam Hussein and give billions of dollars to the Iranian government. The same can be said for aiding the Afghans during the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan only to later invade Afghanistan ourselves during the war on terror.
If we go around looking for a fight, we're probably almost always going to get into a fight with someone. In contrast, I think our politicians should be much more cautious about going to war. War should be the last resort when our national security is threatened, not the first option to dealing with a foreign government we don't like.
I think General MacArthur was correct when he said "the soldier above all others prays for peace, for it is the soldier who must suffer and bear the deepest wounds and scars of war."
There will always be wars going on in the world, but I don't think that means that our military should always get involved, especially when the conflict has nothing to do with the security of our nation. It strikes me as absurd how the US initially supported Iraq during the Iraq-Iran conflict, but then later on we would capture and kill Saddam Hussein and give billions of dollars to the Iranian government. The same can be said for aiding the Afghans during the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan only to later invade Afghanistan ourselves during the war on terror.
If we go around looking for a fight, we're probably almost always going to get into a fight with someone. In contrast, I think our politicians should be much more cautious about going to war. War should be the last resort when our national security is threatened, not the first option to dealing with a foreign government we don't like.
I think General MacArthur was correct when he said "the soldier above all others prays for peace, for it is the soldier who must suffer and bear the deepest wounds and scars of war."
(2)
(0)
LTC Jason Mackay
SSG (Join to see) - i think the issue is congress has abdicated its role in war declaration and simply keeps kicking the can down the road with Authorizations for the Use of Military Force (AUMF) which was supposed to be a check on executive power in emergencies. Now it's just an off ramp so no one has to be on record for or opposed.
Concrete objectives, exactly.
Concrete objectives, exactly.
(1)
(0)
Forty plus years of an all-volunteer force would indicate to me that the answer is yes.
(9)
(0)
This is a great topic of discussion Lt Col Charlie Brown!!! This could lead me into a long dissertation on paper, but I will try to keep is as short as possible...
1st, I am 76-years old, soon to be 77 in September... I graduated from high school, in the top 1/6th of my class of 669, in 1960. The selective service draft registration was still in play... That said, I went off to a liberal arts college after high school and hated it... I am more technically oriented... I left college, and decided that I still wanted an education, I wanted to be free from a domineering father (good man, but tried to run my life for his dream)... I went to all the military recruiters, took all the tests that were provided at the time and looked to learn what I could qualify for in each branch... I very much liked what the USAF had to offer me in terms of education and a chance to make a difference... so I joined the AF and never looked back... The one thing I regret is that I didn't get a degree first and become an officer first... My direction was just the reverse, but I accomplished my overall goals and objectives long term... Back to now!
Again in my view, every male and every female should serve their country for a 2-year period... Why, you ask? Simple!!! The majority of people do not have a clue what real life is all about... Responsibility, work ethic, other people, survival, and a whole lot more... John F. Kennedy began the "Peace Corps" and that was an awesome program for those folks who did not want to join the military, but wanted to do something constructive for their Country... In my time, Joining the USAF changed me from a 'BOY' to a 'MAN'...
I married at 20, and my 1st wife and I had our 1st child a year later, born at a military hospital... 4-more children followed over the years and I left the AF and began my civilian life and my college education and grew along the way... WIthout my total USAF 6-year Commitment and training I don't know what I would have done and where I would have wound up...
So with all that said, I believe we should reinsert a duty to country in the age group of 18-24...with incentives to help defray the costs of an academic degree... same for those with military desires...
I still serve where I can, with the DAV as a life member and as a Chapter Commander, and the VA when I can!
That's my story of the day and I am sticking to it, Charlie! LOL!
1st, I am 76-years old, soon to be 77 in September... I graduated from high school, in the top 1/6th of my class of 669, in 1960. The selective service draft registration was still in play... That said, I went off to a liberal arts college after high school and hated it... I am more technically oriented... I left college, and decided that I still wanted an education, I wanted to be free from a domineering father (good man, but tried to run my life for his dream)... I went to all the military recruiters, took all the tests that were provided at the time and looked to learn what I could qualify for in each branch... I very much liked what the USAF had to offer me in terms of education and a chance to make a difference... so I joined the AF and never looked back... The one thing I regret is that I didn't get a degree first and become an officer first... My direction was just the reverse, but I accomplished my overall goals and objectives long term... Back to now!
Again in my view, every male and every female should serve their country for a 2-year period... Why, you ask? Simple!!! The majority of people do not have a clue what real life is all about... Responsibility, work ethic, other people, survival, and a whole lot more... John F. Kennedy began the "Peace Corps" and that was an awesome program for those folks who did not want to join the military, but wanted to do something constructive for their Country... In my time, Joining the USAF changed me from a 'BOY' to a 'MAN'...
I married at 20, and my 1st wife and I had our 1st child a year later, born at a military hospital... 4-more children followed over the years and I left the AF and began my civilian life and my college education and grew along the way... WIthout my total USAF 6-year Commitment and training I don't know what I would have done and where I would have wound up...
So with all that said, I believe we should reinsert a duty to country in the age group of 18-24...with incentives to help defray the costs of an academic degree... same for those with military desires...
I still serve where I can, with the DAV as a life member and as a Chapter Commander, and the VA when I can!
That's my story of the day and I am sticking to it, Charlie! LOL!
(9)
(0)
SP5 Jeannie Carle
Sgt Kerry Harkins - same page HERE! If I'd been Military at age 18, my life would have been SO much different! And better!
(3)
(0)
SSG (Join to see)
SP5 Jeannie Carle - While it may have been true that your life would be better if you had joined the military at 18, I don't think that should be applied for everyone else. I'm a firm believer that not everyone is cut out for military service, just as not everyone would make a good doctor, teacher, police officer, etc. And I'm not just talking in terms of physical capabilities either. Some professions really require a certain level of dedication and resiliency to be competent and successful.
(3)
(0)
SP5 Jeannie Carle
Absolutely correct, Sgt, I believe those would have been sorted out, probably before they finished AIT. I have a neighbor who says "they wouldn't talk to ME like that!" and I say, wellll, good thing you didn't enlist, then, HUH?!"
(3)
(0)
I think as long as we stay in a perpetual state of war we're going to have problems finding diverse talent. Pretty much anyone who volunteers now does so with the understanding they are going to war. Not the chance of one, but the reality of getting sucked into a protracted conflict. At this point they are conflicts that are perceived by the public not to do much with our national survival.
So yeah, that's going to quickly start limiting the type of people who are willing to serve. Societal diversity in an all volunteer force really requires long periods of peace interspersed with what the public thinks are 'good wars'.
So yeah, that's going to quickly start limiting the type of people who are willing to serve. Societal diversity in an all volunteer force really requires long periods of peace interspersed with what the public thinks are 'good wars'.
(9)
(0)
SP5 Jeannie Carle
You have a valid point. I have to say tho, that before VOLAR I saw more people happy to reenlist and for some reason, more "pride of service".
(2)
(0)
SSG (Join to see)
I agree. I think the real problem isn't a shortage of volunteers signing up but being in a perpetual state of war. Even if the military drafted all abled-bodied 18-30 year olds tomorrow, there's only so much fighting the military can do before being overstretched. I think a good analogy is physical exercise and the human body. It doesn't matter how good of shape you're in, at some point you're going to need a break to recuperate and reenergize after pushing yourself to the limit for an extended period of time.
(2)
(0)
We have to do a better job of letting the millennials know what types of opportunities a career in the military presents. I understand the military has its risks but life itself is a risk. I am biased because I have an active duty child that is doing very well with her career in the air Force. there are not too many companies out there nowadays where you can have an actual career. It is much easier to hire someone new out of college and hold them for a couple of years and then let them go and hire a new group. All about profit
(7)
(0)
Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen
Very true. My son saw exactly that when he left the Air Force. Hes now reached the IT world management level and has some stability but the couple years here, then a couple years there, you describe was his life for about 15 years.
(4)
(0)
(1)
(0)
SSG (Join to see)
I don't think a lack of information is the problem so much as a lack of interest. Back when I was 18-19, my peers and myself knew about the benefits such as the G.I. Bill and the 20 year pension the military offers. Even with this knowledge, it wasn't like everyone was rushing to down the recruiters' office to sign up. I think the number one reason why young adults at that time didn't want to join was because they didn't want to get deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan. All the benefits in the world doesn't matter if people think the cost of getting involved in a particular conflict is too much.
(3)
(0)
Yes I do because there will always be people who put their country before six figure incomes. Frankly the days of massed armies on the battleground are behind us. Technology has made that warfighting style obsolete so the military of today does not need the numbers of days past. What they need is a corps of highly trained technicians and fortunately our education ststem still does a good job of producing them. Even with a smaller and smaller percentage of the population choosing the military we can meet the needs IMO.
(6)
(0)
The answer is above my pay grade but, I have felt for a long time that compulsory service for at least two years should be brought back. I know that with today's young ones there are problems but, perhaps service life will straighten them out. Just my opinion.
(6)
(0)
SSG (Join to see)
What do you think should be done with the young adults who are overweight or otherwise unfit for military service? Should they be put in a boot camp to lose the weight and/or acquire the physical fitness required for military service before starting their compulsory service? Or should the compulsory service only apply to young adults who are fit and meet height/weight standards?
(1)
(0)
SSG Donald H "Don" Bates
SSG (Join to see) - Good point but in "my day" one had to be pretty bad off to not get drafted, I would say they all go. Mean old me.
(0)
(0)
SSG Donald H "Don" Bates
SP5 Peter Keane - In my day, we had the fattest, weakest you could imagine.
(0)
(0)
Read This Next

Recruiting
