Posted on Dec 8, 2013
Does the current Structured Self Development course system efficiently promote Professional development?
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Seems unfair since all you really have to do is go to Wiki Answers and get the answers. The website seems like it is non-user friendly as well.
SSD
Professional Development
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 80
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Waste of time, we cannot replace what should be institutional training with online software that never works, and when it does, it is more bland than watching infomercials at 1 am. I have yet to see any excitement or learning whatsoever from SSD. However, I am sure it looks great on someones NCOER/OER.
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I agree and disagree all at the same time. The Soldier should be allotted time and access to computers at work to complete the SSD. The completion progress should be noted in their performance counseling as it should be a goal or plan to complete.
However, I think that if a Soldier does not show the initiative or desire to do what is required of them to advance, well then maybe a bar to reenlistment should be placed on them for failure to advance, keep pace with peers, show leadership potential, etc.
The SSD DL is not that difficult and should not be that big of deal. You can even google all of the answers I am told.
Oh look, the army says I am required to do something if I want to stay in, advance, or attend NCOES, let me go ahead and do that so I am not viewed as a malingerer or someone who is just doing the minimums.
The mediocre thought process is what they are trying to weed out of the military these days. I want Soldiers who take initiative and go above and beyond in my formation.
Now the other side of me says: don't force them to do it, don't pressure them. Let the one's who do want to excel and be a part of the Army team advance over them. Let the one's who do not want to complete an Army requirement do their time and just get out. So I am torn between let it be and force them to do it. Either way, those without the initiative will be weeded out. Definitely should be no form of punitive action against them for not doing it at any rate.
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SFC (Join to see)
Exactly, 1SG. This years promotions lists are slim for us in part due to incomplete SSD and NCOES.
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SSD= Super Slow Development<div>I hate that website.</div><div>94 modules into it, I don't think I need the slide that forces me to learn to navigate through the site. I'm just saying.</div>
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SSG Robert Burns
That stupid "how to navigate slide" takes about 1 minute of your time between loading, talking, navigating, and loading the next slide.
SSD 3 has 25 lessons. That's 25 minutes of your life....gone....forever.
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You get out of it what you put into it.
If you want it to be a 'check the block training' and search for the answers instead of actually going through the material and LEARNING something, that's exactly what it'll be.
If you want it to be a 'check the block training' and search for the answers instead of actually going through the material and LEARNING something, that's exactly what it'll be.
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SGT(P) (Join to see)
MSG(P) Quick,
Wouldn't their lack of personal responsibility and individual values make them, in fact, different and not equal at all?
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SSG Robert Burns
Humans are created, not Soldiers. Soldiers are trained and developed, and I think it's a fair statement to say they are developed unequally.
I've never seen a drill sergeant "create" a Soldier.
To put it simpler, if Soldiers were created equal, then we probably would have 100's of honor graduates per cycle.
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SSG (Join to see)
Not getting in the equality debate.
I do agree with you about the "going through the material" idea. But, I have heard this in almost every case pertaining to SSD 1: "You have one week to get that course completed and bring me the certificates". The time is not provided to the Soldier to complete it during operating hours so they "check the block". I did allow my Soldier to work on it during working hours and I think she learned something from it but probably not as much as the Army thinks.
I do think SSD is a waste of time. However, the proctored ALC Phase 1 was a better format for learning than SSD because it had live instructors and flexible homework (not multiple choice). I enjoyed it and learned a lot from it.
I do agree with you about the "going through the material" idea. But, I have heard this in almost every case pertaining to SSD 1: "You have one week to get that course completed and bring me the certificates". The time is not provided to the Soldier to complete it during operating hours so they "check the block". I did allow my Soldier to work on it during working hours and I think she learned something from it but probably not as much as the Army thinks.
I do think SSD is a waste of time. However, the proctored ALC Phase 1 was a better format for learning than SSD because it had live instructors and flexible homework (not multiple choice). I enjoyed it and learned a lot from it.
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SGT(P) (Join to see)
But it would be pretty cool, I mean, if they ever actually created a Soldier. Just kidding.
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Structure Self-Development is designed to be just that. Self-Development! It's all designed to "Bridge the Gap"; in between NCOES resident courses are SSD's which help which give us information about things we didn't think about needing to know. Such as SSD III: Role of Special Operations like PSYOPS or Civil Affairs and how they play a major role into YOUR mission... Or SSD IV: Organize a Pass and Review (Drill and Ceremony).. Great info that no one really thinks about needing to know but its there! The Army wants us as leaders and professionals to be educated and the only way to keep us constantly up to speed is to make us complete courses! And they Army Leadership is engaged by making it prerequisites for promotion! I'm all for it! Completed SSD 1, 3, 4... And believe it or not, as of this week there was still about 8,000 SSG's eligible for SFC that have not completed SSD III. Pure craziness!!
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MSG (Join to see)
SFC Hrabe, I agree with you about lack of job knowledge. But that is up to each individual CMF that prepares curriculum for MOS specific training. I filled out my portion in NCO 2020 survey. I was highly disappointed with my SLC, and I feel it should be tailored to Senior 91 series roles more in depth being that there are numerous feeder MOS's into 91X40. But then again, MOS proficiency is leader responsibility also. That NCO in the same field should be mentoring, coaching and teaching his/her subordinates how to master their job and help them understand the bigger picture of their field!
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Suspended Profile
In response to MSG Quick, I recently discovered today that AKO has a Career Tracker. The ACT. It shows courses that are currently being done and courses completed in ALMS as well as resident courses such as Combatives/Drill SGT School, etc. Soldiers can add their leaders as Mentors, and the Mentors can actually SEE their progress! I thought it was a pretty good idea. It would have been helpful earlier on because I had a fellow soldier lie and lie and lie about his progress on SSD I. He never completed it, the NCOIC didn't check, and now said soldier is an NCO with no integrity. (Who btw STILL hasn't completed it)
But when I am in a leadership position(as I am in an all NCO Section) I will make sure all of my soldiers are enrolled and have me added as their mentor/leader so I can check their progress as well as help them with their career goals.
CSM (Join to see)
Army Career Tracker is an excellent tool to tracks your soldiers progress in not only SSD courses but annual certification requirements as well. It particularly assists leaders like myself with a company of over 40 different MOS' with the career map portion and helps paint the picture of where each respective soldier needs to be within their CMF.
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SGT(P) (Join to see)
For those who might say, "This is pointless. I've already learned this." Or, "This is for Privates." I would say, you're not going to fall in love with everything we do. Personally I wasn't too enamored with the course but if it's something I have to do to get to that next level I'll do it. If you already know the material, than it should be easy. If you don't, if you learn even one thing from it that you didn't know before, SSD was worth it.
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I for one am relieved that SSD III covered the burning question as to how many days after leave may I request a band. That's important stuff for a combat leader to know! Especially a squad leader or platoon sergeant! Can you sense my sarcasm?
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Suspended Profile
noted lol
SGT(P) (Join to see)
Think it is a waste of time and money. SSD1 should be getting taught by the Soldiers NCO and SSD3 and up should be getting taught in NCOPD. Don't even get me started about common core. Internet based training in the army just seems like a joke to me.
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SGT(P) (Join to see)
Think it is a waste of time and money. SSD1 should be getting taught by the Soldiers NCO and SSD3 and up should be getting taught in NCOPD. Don't even get me started about common core. Internet based training in the army just seems like a joke to me.
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its extremely difficult to work, most times it wont load and if it does its super finicky. Once loaded its super easy. the thought behind is good, but the classes are super easy and you can easily skip whole sections and still complete it. I honestly thought It was a joke, but since its required I completed anyways. anything online can be manipulated and cheated, the only real way to make sure things are getting done is to have required assignments, such as starting a discussion point and mandatory responses or something.
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MAJ Bartlett,
It is my opinion that the SSD curriculum should be taught by NCOs to their Soldiers, yet while this is ideal it doesn't happen when it should or as often as it should. In the last few years alone, I've seen the NCO Corps fill slots with personnel more focused on filling a billet, than training, mentoring and leading Soldiers. While this isn't the same for all NCOs in the E-5 and E-6 ranks by any means, it's prevalent enough we need to take a look at ourselves and the kinds of people we're setting up as the future core of the Senior NCO ranks.
With that said, I didn't get anything out of SSD1. PowerPoint makes us stupid and the only thing it's good for is providing a visual aid during training, yet many seem to think the training from looking at a piece of paper is just as valid as solid mentorship and training from a competent and motivated NCO to a motivated Soldier willing to learn from said training.
My $0.02
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I guess the short answer is "Yes" If you are not willing to complete the neceessary training for your current rank, or are not willing to promote, it is time to get out. My opinion only, not Army regs!
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SGT (Join to see)
no disrespect CSM. its understandable that the upper command would prefer soldiers strive to gain rank. but in the years in which i was in the service there wasn't very good guidance from the higher ranks to give the lower ranking individuals a list of tasks they should complete or assistance with finding the information to pass to them. for the paper trail side of the military.
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CSM Michael Poll
While I understand acknoleggment for no disresspect, My ONLY goal is the adancment of my NCO's It is imperative so I can retire with a clear concious that my ARMY is in good hands, not in the hands of the "entitlement" generation. I need Soldiers who will run this Army in the professional manner it was intended to be run. This is not an "Upper Command" philosophy. This is taking care of those that need it and requiring our Leaders to ensure that Military Doctrine and legacy is upheld and pushed to our subordinates. If you are here for "just a pay check" GO AWAY! I want the new generation of Soldier to adhere to the same Philosophies that I was taught and should be passed on through the next generation of Soldier. If you are here just to pad your own resume, you are in for the wrong reason.
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I originally enrolled in SSD IV only because it's a requirement for promotion. After taking the course, i would say it did provide valuable information with respect to the joint environment. I personally have not been assigned to a joint position, and so this course, along with the SEJPME course, have provided me perspectives of the joint environment.
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SSG(P) Jonathan S.
Other troops in my unit and myself have been experiencing technical problems with the system. However I feel the idea behind SSD is good just hard to use
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MSG (Join to see)
Technical problems, you betcha. People were wondering why is was so pissed working on this.
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To be honest, I learn best when I grab a regulation, sit down, and actually read the thing. SSD leaves much to be desired in comparison to that in my opinion.
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SSG (Join to see)
its just another online click click click click done, the Army should do more than create MORE boxes to check.
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SSG Robert Burns
I think its pure laziness. What on earth is NCODP for? Why don't we just make a powerpoint test for everything we do? Pretty soon, basic training will be computer based.
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SSG (Join to see)
lol, thats what ive been saying for a few years now,,, privits, (yes, privits) will soon just go to the recruiter, take their online tests they take now for promotion, go to meps, take a few more online tests, hit CIF and then get shipped straight to their unit... (no, not really) but it sure seems that its heading that way.
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SSG (Join to see)
not to mention everyone know of some glitch with the system,, its flawed, there is more to being a professional Soldier than just taking numerous classes online someone made to beef up their NCOER/ OER
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While I agree that all of the SSDs are not without their difficulties, I do believe they are great learning tools. Could they be employed differently....probably. I believe this should be training taught in a classroom as opposed to online.....with the possibility of Soldiers getting more out of it than just sitting in front of a computer screen clicking the NEXT button repetitively.<br>
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SSG (Join to see)
The SSDs are such lengthy training requirements; if what SSG Moore is proposing is to be effective then the teachings of SSDs by Leaders to their subordinates can be broken down by their modules and in order for the Soldiers to advance to the next module they have to successfully test out of the previous module.
Sir, as long as we the Leaders manage our time effectively (something we should be doing when it comes to taking care of our Soldiers) then I believe face to face SSD training can work.
Sir, as long as we the Leaders manage our time effectively (something we should be doing when it comes to taking care of our Soldiers) then I believe face to face SSD training can work.
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SGT(P) (Join to see)
Sitting down with Soldiers would be great, in an ideal world, free of SERE 100, AT-Level 1, GAT Survey's, SHARP training, EO training, MAL's, UMR's, LAYOUT's, and regular details like...Area Beautification, common areas, ASP guard, and DFAC register. The list goes on forever, because when they're not doing anything, YOU have things to do like counseling, fixing packets, prepping for training, inspecting for training prep, CQ, Staff Duty, and supervise all of the things that your guys are doing.
Even if you could get them all together in one place long enough to start this, you would have to travel to a place with multiple computers(library, computer lab, but good luck teaching above a whisper in there), internet that actually stays on for more than two minutes.
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When I get my monthly eligible Sgt promotion list it states if they don't meet the des/Mel requirement. That is a clear indication usually that they have not completed SSD 1. I have my platoon sergeants allot a Soldier time during work to complete their SSD. I have gone as far as setting a type of OML for Soldiers to have time to complete it. Most complete it in about 2 days. That's giving them about 4 hours a day to work on it. (Still need to get some work out of them also). If a Soldier doesn't want to take the time to do it, then they get it mentioned on their monthly performance counseling. If their not eligible for promotion because they have not completed it then they are counseled on why their not attending the promotion board. Another thing is no SSD 1 = no WLC. It is irritating to watch Soldiers not want to progress. If not to get promoted then to at least better themselves until time to ets. With that I agree with 1SG Hansen, Don't want to progress then impose a Bar. Makes the decision of telling a Soldier he doesn't make the cut to reup that much easier. Anyway, my two cents.
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SFC (Join to see)
Fully agreed 1SG. We've scheduled time and provided a DL classroom for those soldiers who want to get it done and qualify for promotion. I don't think we had a single soldier pass up the opportunity, and if they do it certainly could be an indicator of their career intentions.
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SGT(P) (Join to see)
I agree, but at the same time it distinguishes soldiers who are self motivated to advance in the ranks compared to those that do not.
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1SG (Join to see)
True, but sometimes Soldiers need a push to better their careers. Make sure you get to know your Soldiers and what's going on with them. Sometimes they may have a family issue, marriage problems they might be embarrassed to share. If I hadn't been pushed into some requirements in my younger days I might not be where I am today. Of course some just don't care and nothing you do will change them. Try to find what gave them that bitter taste in their mouth and try to make them believers. With the draw downs commanders and first sergeants have this wonderful tool to not allow Soldiers to Re-up if they don't "make the grade".
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No, they shouldn't be forced to complete the SSD commensurate with their rank, or future rank. They do need to be counseled though as to the negative effects this will have upon their career in the Army, or lack there of. Soldiers are adults, some more mature than others, regardless they need to be treated as such. We are all responsible for our actions, good and bad.
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Yes...Soldiers should be forced to complete to be competitive for promotion to the next higher rank.
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SGM Matthew Quick
I understand and can appreciate your passion.
Think back when we were young(er) Soldiers...did you always have enough discipline, self-drive, and motivation to complete everything on time?
There may have been times that I needed motivation in my career or times I really didn't understand the second and third order effects of something that I didn't see as important at a certain time. We are older and wise now and can appreciate the importance of just about anything.
Soldiers need to be pushed...some more than others. SSD should not be the sole determining factor for promotion recommendation.
Think back when we were young(er) Soldiers...did you always have enough discipline, self-drive, and motivation to complete everything on time?
There may have been times that I needed motivation in my career or times I really didn't understand the second and third order effects of something that I didn't see as important at a certain time. We are older and wise now and can appreciate the importance of just about anything.
Soldiers need to be pushed...some more than others. SSD should not be the sole determining factor for promotion recommendation.
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WO1 (Join to see)
I think SSD1 should be required and forced but after that if an NCO doesnt have the discipline, self-drive, and motivation to complete the required training they dont need to be considered for promotion.
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SSG (Join to see)
No, SSD should not be forced. If a Soldier takes this job seriously, then they will do the work. If they dont, they get pushed out. I agree with putting the information on the counseling statement, but forcing an unmotivated, uncaring service member to be competetive for promotions in a time when the Army is looking for those very same unmotivated people to push out seems counter productive.
The Army is drawing down, we all know this. If our top leaders are saying identify them so we can get them out, then we should identify them. Let them be lazy and uncaring, they'll be shown the door while those who want to get promoted do the work. This process leaves the door open for better Soldiers to fill those positions.
A case in point, I have a Soldier who wants to go to the promotion board, says hes ready. But hes not competetive, barely breaks the minimum point requirement in an MOS that averages promotions at points 150-200 above what he owns. Should I send him to the board because he meets the TIS/TIG requirements? I dont think so. Hes been counseled, we worked out a plan together and hes working on that plan. The point being, if I can be motivated (and I was), then so can those behind us. And to hold those behind us to higher standards will only strengthen the force while we face uncertain operational requirements in the future.
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SGM (R) Antonio Brown
Months before the promotion board (MSG to SGM) convenes I received an email that showed me the number of MSGs(CMF 74) that were being looked at for promotion. Out of that number the email showed the number of MSGs that completed SSD IV. If the board were held on the day that I received the email 25-30% of the MSGs would not have had their records seen by the board members. This is at the Senior level. When do we stop holding the hands of individuals? I believe in motivating Soldiers, mentoring, coaching, teaching, and what ever else I have to do in order to have a Soldier live up to their potential. But we have to hold Soldiers, regardless of rank, accountable for their actions. I have spoken to my counterparts from other branches of service about SSD/promotions. These leaders have told me that they make the personnel aware of what must happen in order to advance. They make sure that the personnel have time and the tools needed to study and complete the DL lessons. If the personnel fail to meet the standard then the personnel are counseled for it. My counterparts made me aware that the personnel are not forced to complete DL lessons. I do not feel that Soldiers should be forced to complete SSD because those that fail to complete SSD are showing that they have no desire to advance.
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SSD is the hot topic of the Army these days. I received an email a few weeks ago that outlined the numbers for the MSGs who were ineligible to be considered for promotion for the upcoming SGM board because they have not completed SSD IV. For my MOS alone, it was almost a third of the population who would not be looked at if the board convened today (it convenes this June). So this is not just a Soldier issue, it is a leader issue also.
I do not believe in the "mandatory" piece though. I, much like 1SG Hansen, believe that SSD and how it is linked to promotion and NCOES should be outlined in monthly/quarterly counseling's. A plan of action should be developed to complete the required SSD. If that plan of action is not followed, then that should be recorded. Afford your Soldiers and NCOs the tools needed to be successful. If they choose not to use them, then so be it. The direction the Army is moving nowadays, natural selection and attrition will weed those folks out who do not want to complete what is required of them for advancement.
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1SG Steven Stankovich
Self Structured Development sir. On-line training that is tied to selection for schooling and promotion on the enlisted side of the house.
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SPC Scott Dennin
I am about to re-enlist into the National Guard. Is SSD something I should be prepared to do for promotion or does the NG not participate?
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SSG V. Michelle Woods
SPC Dennin
I HIGHLY recommend you reference the link below. SSG Carl Beutler does the best job explaining SSD in the most basic yet accurate and brief terms.
Trust me, you'll want to understand this new-ish Army training requirement before you reenlist.
I have a fellow NCO who is trying to get promoted to SSG. Preparation, he is working on getting more military schooling completed, and he would like to get enrolled in SSD 3. He emailed th...
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I agree with we should not force them to complete SSD, when I was told that inorder to compete for SGM Academy I had to complete SSD4 or 5 which ever it is I did it took be about 2 or 3 days in Afghanistan. If the Soldier does not want to do it that is fine helps with the cutting of numbers that we have to get to. I agree with 1SG Hansen, lets use the BAR and Flags to matbe motivate them to complete it or they go do something else, some place else.
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I absolutely LOVE the new SSD's! My first look is in February, and as of now there are THOUSANDS of NCO's who couldn't be bothered to do it, thereby taking themselves out of the running for promotion.
Anything that helps my odds is great in my book!
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Sir, it isn't very user friendly, nor is it browser friendly. Also a lot of good knowledge is stored in the program, but entirely too much information to absorb. In my opinion, it should be revised.
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SGM Matthew Quick
So, make it easier?
I understand the compatibility and technical issues, but TOO MUCH information?
I understand the compatibility and technical issues, but TOO MUCH information?
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SSG (Join to see)
MSG, it's too much information compiled into one (probably expensive) program that doesn't work a lot of times. I believe a lot of that online training should be used with a more reliable platform. If not, take it back to hands on training.
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to quote a former 1SG who is an awesome leader
"Module 2 of SSD-4 complete, as an average Infantry First Sergeant I am now fully qualified to interact on the theatre and multi-national level with host foreign ambassadors and the Joint Chief of Staff. I am still waiting for the part that covers being a First Sergeant, you know like taking care of soldiers and running a company mission CCP? No sign of those things yet."
That pretty much sums up everything I've heard about SSD.
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