Posted on Apr 6, 2015
Does White Privilege really exist in our military? "Army says diversity training sent wrong signal... "
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What are your thoughts on this topic, this training, this manual?
I, personally, believe we have come a long way in the America and in our Army, but I also know (A) we are not there yet, and (B) I know that I see the world through my eyes and life experiences.
1. As you know (or may not know) the concept of "white privilege" appeared in the Defense Equal Opportunity Management Institute (DEOMI) training manual in 2013. DOD officials quickly said it was a mistake, and it that this was not caught in the fielding of the policy manual... That makes sense, as many don't actually read things they approve. That led me/us to believe there was a change in the works.
2. Now, it appears this concept, which was supposed to be removed the DOD training manual/POI, was not, and DEOMI is still pushing this message. Now, it appears we have an EO Officer or NCO teaching this to Soldiers...
Interesting to say the least.
These are some related articles.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/04/03/army-diversity-training/25250733/
http://toprightnews.com/army-soldiers-forced-to-sit-through-white-privilege-presentation-and-the-backlash-is-just-beginning/
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/10/31/pentagon-training-manual-white-males-have-unfair-advantages/
I, personally, believe we have come a long way in the America and in our Army, but I also know (A) we are not there yet, and (B) I know that I see the world through my eyes and life experiences.
1. As you know (or may not know) the concept of "white privilege" appeared in the Defense Equal Opportunity Management Institute (DEOMI) training manual in 2013. DOD officials quickly said it was a mistake, and it that this was not caught in the fielding of the policy manual... That makes sense, as many don't actually read things they approve. That led me/us to believe there was a change in the works.
2. Now, it appears this concept, which was supposed to be removed the DOD training manual/POI, was not, and DEOMI is still pushing this message. Now, it appears we have an EO Officer or NCO teaching this to Soldiers...
Interesting to say the least.
These are some related articles.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/04/03/army-diversity-training/25250733/
http://toprightnews.com/army-soldiers-forced-to-sit-through-white-privilege-presentation-and-the-backlash-is-just-beginning/
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/10/31/pentagon-training-manual-white-males-have-unfair-advantages/
Equal Opportunity Advisor
Racism
Diversity
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 64
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O-M-G, what the frack?!? I have too many rebel flag bearing brothers who had my six without reservation or hesitation operating in Afghanistan in 2003-2004... That only happens in our greatest military, JMHO.
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SPC Nancy Greene
SEMPER Fi SGT! I worked on MCB Camp LeJeune as a Therapist after Army!Sgt Cody Dumont
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SPC Nancy Greene
OUTSTANDING SSG Robert L.
We ALL bleed red blood! I Stand for the Flag & National Anthem. I kneel before God.SSG (Join to see)
We ALL bleed red blood! I Stand for the Flag & National Anthem. I kneel before God.SSG (Join to see)
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LTC Philip Marlowe
SGT Wise, you stated a fundamental difference between the brotherhood of the US Military and the civilian sector. Frankly, anyone who has not served will never understand it. They simply fail to understand the brotherhood and at some point in their lives (heard it in many an airport bar) will 1) Regret (cry in their beer) they did not participate (and retire) and 2) Resent YOU for having experienced it.
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Absolutely ridiculous!!! I am not naïve and fully understand that there is racism, sexism, and every other ism in the Army. Again, we are a cross section of the population we serve, there will never be a perfect equal opportunity program because you cannot change someone's beliefs in a short amount of time, if ever.
Garbage like this only propels racism. I have never felt privileged over any other race since I have been in the Army. In the Infantry everybody is treated like crap so we got that going for us.
I think we will be seeing a major overhaul soon in the Army's Equal Opportunity Program. They replaced POSH with SHARP because POSH was ineffective, I see that same thing happening with EO.
Garbage like this only propels racism. I have never felt privileged over any other race since I have been in the Army. In the Infantry everybody is treated like crap so we got that going for us.
I think we will be seeing a major overhaul soon in the Army's Equal Opportunity Program. They replaced POSH with SHARP because POSH was ineffective, I see that same thing happening with EO.
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SPC Nancy Greene
OUTSTANDING CSM Bigg John’s! Would have Definitely stayed in longer if You were in my ‘Chain if Command’!CSM (Join to see)
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SPC Nancy Greene
Poor Leadership leads to Loss of Motivated Soldiers & Death of Soldiers during Peacetime..That is why I requested Medical Discharge.CSM (Join to see)
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SPC Nancy Greene
If I was in the ‘back row’, I would have gotten up & moved closer to ‘make the shit’! The ‘rules’ didn’t STATE you had to ‘stay in place’!CSM (Join to see)
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"White Privilege" isn't a word I would ever use in my vocabulary. Favoritism exist is the military just as it does in the general population. I have sat on my share of promotion boards with officers and NCO's of all races, and I can say quite comfortably, skin color has never stopped a qualified soldier from getting promoted.
The process works good as long as you have a diverse panel reviewing the files. I believe this neutralizes any effect of favoritism one might have.
The process works good as long as you have a diverse panel reviewing the files. I believe this neutralizes any effect of favoritism one might have.
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SPC Nancy Greene
Agree Sir after reaching E6 and prior to E4. The rank in between is based upon Promotion Points obtained by Individual Soldiers. The ‘Cut Off’ scores for Promotion are determined by DA HQ.
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I think the more we talk about it the more we talk about it. Being in the military allows people from all walks of life to have a fresh start, get a trade, make a living and possibly raise a family.
I think it may exist for some people. The military has put so many "training" awareness in place until we all get to a point of dreading the "mandatory" love thy neighbor. When I say it may exist for some people, I mean literally that.
White priveledge exists for me when I'm being saturated with "the white man gets everything so easily and everyone else must work so much harder...blah blah blah." Not to be offensive but only exists in definition not experience for me. My success/failure is in my lane and my lane is my destiny designed by God. No one can interfere with that except me.
I have friends and co-workers who wear items or say things that could be conscrewed as racist or pro "whatever your ethnic group" but will defend my life the same way I would save theirs. As long as we treat each other with dignity and respect I will always see my military family as one team, one fight. Everyone gets a chance to prove me wrong.
I think it may exist for some people. The military has put so many "training" awareness in place until we all get to a point of dreading the "mandatory" love thy neighbor. When I say it may exist for some people, I mean literally that.
White priveledge exists for me when I'm being saturated with "the white man gets everything so easily and everyone else must work so much harder...blah blah blah." Not to be offensive but only exists in definition not experience for me. My success/failure is in my lane and my lane is my destiny designed by God. No one can interfere with that except me.
I have friends and co-workers who wear items or say things that could be conscrewed as racist or pro "whatever your ethnic group" but will defend my life the same way I would save theirs. As long as we treat each other with dignity and respect I will always see my military family as one team, one fight. Everyone gets a chance to prove me wrong.
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I think removing the photo and any reference to race from the promotion recommendation package in the late 80s was a good and necessary step. I have not seen it amongst AF Officer ranks, but then I am white, so I could be blind to it.
I don't like the concept, I hope it is gone forever, and I worry that including it in any DoD manual will keep it alive in people's minds longer.
I don't like the concept, I hope it is gone forever, and I worry that including it in any DoD manual will keep it alive in people's minds longer.
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SPC Nancy Greene
That’s to check wearing IAW AR! If you have been ‘In’ for 9 years, you Better have the Correct Number of Service Stripes on Your Class A’s! Same goes for Medals, Awards, Unit Citations, etc.COL Charles Williams
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SPC Nancy Greene
Has NOTHING to do with Beauty! I KNOW from First-Hand experience as ‘Go-For’ fir the Board Members!That was in 1984!Col Joseph Lenertz
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SPC Nancy Greene
If THAT happens, a SOLDIER is TOTALLY at the Mercy if the 201 File! Do Not depend upon Records Management to ensure correct 201 File!SFC (Join to see)
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The Marines don’t have any race problems. They treat everybody like they’re black.
—Gen Daniel “Chappie” James Jr., USAF, circa 1970
https://www.mca-marines.org/leatherneck/marine-corps-quotes
Caveats:
1. I don't know if Gen James ever actually said it, but it is widely attributed to him
2. The quote is from the 1970's just as the Civil Rights Movement is making headway
3. I personally subscribe to treat everyone like an American rather than an {insert whatever group here} we are using to divide us.
—Gen Daniel “Chappie” James Jr., USAF, circa 1970
https://www.mca-marines.org/leatherneck/marine-corps-quotes
Caveats:
1. I don't know if Gen James ever actually said it, but it is widely attributed to him
2. The quote is from the 1970's just as the Civil Rights Movement is making headway
3. I personally subscribe to treat everyone like an American rather than an {insert whatever group here} we are using to divide us.
Marine Corps Quotes | Marine Corps Association
The Marine Corps Association is the professional association for ALL Marines. The MCA publishes Leatherneck Magazine and the Marine Corps Gazette for the professional development and connectivity to the Corps for Marines - present, past, and future. The MCA also owns The Marine Shop, which supplies all the necessary uniforms and accessories for Marines, as well as other USMC products and gear.
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Mhh I personally don't feel that there is a wwhite privilege phenomenon going on in the Army. If anything I have seen that a white service member was overlooked for promotion or a assignment to not sent a "wrong" message.
Like CSM Oldsen said there is plenty of all kinds of "-ism's" in the Army and every human being is racism to a certain extend, it's how you act on it that makes the difference.
But when you're creating a "protection" for one particicular group you automatically put someone of a different group at a disadvantage.
The problem with the EO program is that mostly it is seen that racism is coming from white people towards non-whites. Which is wrong, I was target of plenty of discrimination because of my national origin even though I'm white.
And going ahead and saying we need x% of black, x% of hispanic and x% of other races in this particular field or position is wrong. With that you'll get people in positions they should not be in just because they are of a certain race. That is not equal in m eyes.
The Army should stop trying to force "equality" a) it doens't work, and b) when forced it's more harmful than anything.
Best men/ women for the job regardless of race, sex or whatever. If you didn't get selected for a job it might be that you are just not qualified.
Like CSM Oldsen said there is plenty of all kinds of "-ism's" in the Army and every human being is racism to a certain extend, it's how you act on it that makes the difference.
But when you're creating a "protection" for one particicular group you automatically put someone of a different group at a disadvantage.
The problem with the EO program is that mostly it is seen that racism is coming from white people towards non-whites. Which is wrong, I was target of plenty of discrimination because of my national origin even though I'm white.
And going ahead and saying we need x% of black, x% of hispanic and x% of other races in this particular field or position is wrong. With that you'll get people in positions they should not be in just because they are of a certain race. That is not equal in m eyes.
The Army should stop trying to force "equality" a) it doens't work, and b) when forced it's more harmful than anything.
Best men/ women for the job regardless of race, sex or whatever. If you didn't get selected for a job it might be that you are just not qualified.
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COL Charles Williams , as a white Equal Opportunity Leader (EOL), I believe that "White Privilege" is absurd. In the 12 years that I've been in, I've never seen white Soldiers be promoted any faster that any other race. I have however, seen multiple 1SGs/CSMs that were Black/African American or Pacific Islander that show extreme favoritism to their race for promotions. The Free Masons are well known for their fraternization, and do it openly. This organization is primarily made of Black/African American Service members, but nothing is ever said about that.... "White Privilege" they say...? If anything, I would say that there is a Black/African American Privilege that exists in our military and country. Did the military not lower multiple standards in order to provide the military with a more diverse corps of Officers? This has also been done with elite colleges. Equal opportunity is great, but no other organization represents that better than the United States military. These people need to stop with the racial division we constantly deal with due to these situations.
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SFC (Join to see)
I don't see it in the military, but it is very real in the criminal justice system. .. Im sure the army is aware of part of the problem and that would explain why our recruiting criteria is constantly changing
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SFC (Join to see)
SFC (Join to see) With the criminal justice system, I believe it really depends on the area/county/state, etc. The criminal justice system is primarily ran by whites where I'm from, but we're a big majority. You don't hear any crazy stories of descrimination there either. They do a good job with consistent punishments across the board. I'm sure this isn't the case everywhere. Thanks for the reply.
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SFC (Join to see)
I don't really point the finger at those currently serving as police or in public office, I know the problem is with the laws and policies themselves and most people are unaware how this really effects the public in large and the economy..I agree with you that not all but some parts of the country are far worse than others, short story I was pulled over in PA, I wasn't speeding or anything the cop who was white said he pulled me over because my windows are tinted and I'm like okay I don't live in PA I'm just passing thru and my car is registered thru Virginia so why would I be stopped and the cop said well we had some guys shoot at police awhile back and they had tinted windows... I'm like okay, so he runs my info and I never had any experience with the legal system so I know I was clean... so when he comes back he starts with random questions, where am I going, do I have any weapons in the car etc...... I was on leave so I had a weapon in the trunk, locked away and stored properly... back up units arrive and these cops are black.... they stand with me while the white cop checks my car, and the black cop says why did you give him permission to check your car, and I respond I didn't do anything why should I be worried and his reply was that guys a dick he is going to take you to jail and Im like really why I didn't do anything. .. so the white cop comes back and like can you turn around and he places me in handcuffs I'm like what did I do, the law in PA is if you don't have a CCW from PA you must disassemble your weapon and place it on the passenger seat... I have a CCW from Virginia and since I was only driving thru PA I didn't consider that I could go to jail for something so silly..... case in-point, was I breaking the law? Technically yes but when does the common sense kick in? The case never made it to the courtroom the judge threw it out, once it became clear that I had a valid concealed weapons permit and that I was military. But it shouldn't take all that, these police lock people up over petty crimes and act unaware at how going to jail will impact your life, if your a single parent, or your job... it causes an undue hardship
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COL Charles Williams,
Sir, I had a friend in the Navy who was kicked out over an incident with the Filipino Mafia. This happened in the 80's. It was an E-5 and an E-7 who were speaking in their native tongue and they would point at him and laugh. This did not sit well with Tom who is of Irish blood Red Hair and a temper to match knocked both their lights out. 90 Days in the Brig and a less than Honorable. So when people say that only once race can be racist I call BS. Wrong all the way around but any race or group can be racist.
Speaking of Irish, which I am partly. The Irish were treated worse than most if not all groups in the new world and were used as slaves as well. In fact they tried to exterminate them from their home land. For some reason this does not make the history books like the holocaust.
Sir, I had a friend in the Navy who was kicked out over an incident with the Filipino Mafia. This happened in the 80's. It was an E-5 and an E-7 who were speaking in their native tongue and they would point at him and laugh. This did not sit well with Tom who is of Irish blood Red Hair and a temper to match knocked both their lights out. 90 Days in the Brig and a less than Honorable. So when people say that only once race can be racist I call BS. Wrong all the way around but any race or group can be racist.
Speaking of Irish, which I am partly. The Irish were treated worse than most if not all groups in the new world and were used as slaves as well. In fact they tried to exterminate them from their home land. For some reason this does not make the history books like the holocaust.
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CSM (Join to see)
I do not claim any political party affiliations but I saw this on my facebook feed and it goes right along with what you are saying.
US Army Diversity Training: The White Privilege Fallacy
This is not an isolated incident. Liberals riddled with white guilt or white hatred love to wield the weapon called "White Privilege". How many times have you heard this bullshit term over the past 12 months? I know that I have heard it more times than I can even keep track of. Liberals have had great results wielding the "White Privilege" battle axe. The only problem is that "White Privilege" is a fallacy.
All one needs to do is pick up a history book and they can read all about the the "White Privilege" that countless white indentured servants received in the early years of our nation. Or they could pick up a book on how the early Irish immigrants to America were treated.
No need to stop there as there are also plenty of written accounts of how poor white immigrant children were exploited working in the mills that processed cotton.
My family immigrated here many years ago. They had a hard life. They worked their asses off for a chance at a better life. Nothing was handed to them. No welfare, no healthcare, no section 8, no EBT just an opportunity to toil in a hot sweaty and very dangerous mill. After years of hard work and saving every penny they could they built better lives for their families. Their children were educated in private schools because they knew the value of an education. They and their children served their nation when the call went out for soldiers, sailors and airmen.
Every generation earned their own way but with a small boost from their parents...It was a steady progression due to hard work. That used to be called the American Way...Where you could come to America and work hard and maybe you could give a better life to your family...Exceptionalism was praised, hard work and savings for the future was the pathway to prosperity.
This story is not one that was isolated to just my family. It is the story of most of us Americans.
So don't preach to me about "White Privilege" and tell me how easy we have it. There are generations who busted their asses to give their kids a better life than they had...
US Army Diversity Training: The White Privilege Fallacy
This is not an isolated incident. Liberals riddled with white guilt or white hatred love to wield the weapon called "White Privilege". How many times have you heard this bullshit term over the past 12 months? I know that I have heard it more times than I can even keep track of. Liberals have had great results wielding the "White Privilege" battle axe. The only problem is that "White Privilege" is a fallacy.
All one needs to do is pick up a history book and they can read all about the the "White Privilege" that countless white indentured servants received in the early years of our nation. Or they could pick up a book on how the early Irish immigrants to America were treated.
No need to stop there as there are also plenty of written accounts of how poor white immigrant children were exploited working in the mills that processed cotton.
My family immigrated here many years ago. They had a hard life. They worked their asses off for a chance at a better life. Nothing was handed to them. No welfare, no healthcare, no section 8, no EBT just an opportunity to toil in a hot sweaty and very dangerous mill. After years of hard work and saving every penny they could they built better lives for their families. Their children were educated in private schools because they knew the value of an education. They and their children served their nation when the call went out for soldiers, sailors and airmen.
Every generation earned their own way but with a small boost from their parents...It was a steady progression due to hard work. That used to be called the American Way...Where you could come to America and work hard and maybe you could give a better life to your family...Exceptionalism was praised, hard work and savings for the future was the pathway to prosperity.
This story is not one that was isolated to just my family. It is the story of most of us Americans.
So don't preach to me about "White Privilege" and tell me how easy we have it. There are generations who busted their asses to give their kids a better life than they had...
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