Posted on Jul 31, 2020
MSgt B Grimes
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What are your thoughts given some basic info? Fraud, Criminal Intent, PTSD & psychology.
An Army infantry soldier completes a first term 4 year enlistment, excited following 9/11. Possibly serves only one overseas tour, and never fires his weapon in combat. Gets out of Army following enlistment and joins Army Guard. Within first year of guard duty (upon orders for overseas tour) claims PTSD threatens to kill his comrades. Is released from duty.
Member has tried for 12 years to get benefits, and finally receives 100% disability. Claims to his family that his PTSD disease is cured. Does not follow psychologists prescriptions, as they are not really needed.
Was member fit for duty when enlisting in the Army Guard? Or did this member fraudulently join having pre-existing condition?
Can this member have concealed carry and go hunting, when he claims PTSD for gunfire?
would you consider this member to be defrauding the government and taxpayer?
Soldier has lied to family members claiming to be heroic sniper, only to reveal as lies later, having never fired his weapon in actual combat. Possibly used similar lies to VA psychologist.
How would you approach situation? VA does not seem to care, and does not offer path for investigation.
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Responses: 465
MSgt Ncoic Bioenvironmental
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Just one of many many stories that are very similar. I know Guardsman who never saw any type of combat deployment and recieve 80% disability. Oh did I mention they work for the VA as a rater. I just retired after34 years serving 3 combat tours and am struggling to get more than 20% with proven mental health service connected conditions. The ones who earned it struggle the ones who didn't learned how to manipulate the system. It sickens me. I just had an Uncle who passed away who was a helicopter door gunner in Vietnam where the mortality rate for that job was 80% and who witnessed horrors that others couldn't even comprehend and he never got a nickle from the VA and he certainly suffered from PTSD. Its an unjust and unfair process.
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SSG Elyzabeth Cromer
SSG Elyzabeth Cromer
3 y
LCpl Walter Kenna I would suggest dancing is a bad idea during your C & P. Singing however, (preferably off key) is probably the way to go.
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TSgt James Warfield
TSgt James Warfield
3 y
My Step day was in Vietnam as crew chief on helicopters, and was also there gunner when the helicopter was flying into pick up down poliots, I learn of this years after he retired, Tried to get him to file for VA claims he wouldn't because of the stigma that was ( and still is attached ) to those who file claims. My mother tried for years get us to see that he was having some bad flash backs after we left home... when she passed and went to leave with my sister we truly saw it in all it's worse.
People have said it I have said it on here. Yes there are those who game ( abuse the system ) but it's every where.
I just retired after 13 plus years working with a NGO that helps those who are needy, from financial to health including mental health,,, there were those who knew how to work the system,,, I had to fight hard not to judge all by those individual and make sure everyone got their case heard with out bias.
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PO2 Luis Rodriguez
PO2 Luis Rodriguez
2 y
Maybe the reason you have such a low percentage is because you haven’t been diagnosed for anything, or you don’t know how to explain your symptoms when you go to the C&P exam… don’t hate, educate yourself how the VA claim work. Stop hating on others just because you can’t get what you want.
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SSG Raul Alaniz
SSG Raul Alaniz
>1 y
Agreed. THE SARGE
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SGT Jon Jenkins
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I have heard people planning on “faking it” to get the disability so they can ride the system. Problem is is that it’s a psychological issue and there is no real way to prove whether someone is lying or not. Say it goes before a court, that soldier could claim he was trying to de-escalate his “condition” for the sake of his family or so he could get a job etc. I think it’s hoursehit guys like that exist but we all know that one guy that was in our unit that did everything they could to work the system. Getting out of deployments, general duties, etc. Show of hands on how many people k ow someone that magically became Muslim prior to a combat deployment and couldn’t go fight their “brothers”? Or came out as homosexual (back when DADT got you out of the military in 3 days)? But back on topic... there are always going to be soldiers that will do whatever they can to use the system to their benefit which unfortunately takes resources from those that need them but they don’t care, because they are getting what they wanted.
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SMSgt John Lemon
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I would say, as a retired PI, that this guy has all the signs of one who is trying the game the VA for benefits that he has not earned. For those of us who have done five or more tours to the sandbox, who actually have PTSD, this makes it difficult for others to claim the benefit because the VA then looks at all of us in a critical light. The VA under Trump has been more proactive in investigating those who try to defraud the VA with stolen honor and fraudulent claims. Perhaps those who are so inclined will think twice before thinking that the VA is an easy get rich scheme.
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SMSgt John Lemon
SMSgt John Lemon
5 y
Wow!!! So much negativity!. Try doing some homework instead of opening your mouth and remove all doubt that you are an idiot.
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SSG Trevor S.
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It has always been my position that those who claim PTSD for a rating boost are pond scum, and those who claim it to get out of things are rancid poo stains. This condition painfully affects many in our Veteran community. False claims allocate resources to those who don't need it, overburdens the compensation funds causing "cost savings measures" to hurt others (such as refusing concurrent receipt for retirees under 50%), and causes social stigma for all Veterans in the workplace and society in general.
If you can prove this person is committing fraud then report them to the VA.
If you can't prove it but they are exploiting the system, take comfort that one day St Michael will put the POS on extra duty for eternity.
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SPC Tim Thompson
SPC Tim Thompson
>1 y
I have used my PTSD to my benefit. It has gotten me out of going to the Mall during the Christmas shopping season. It has also saved me a lot of money by keeping me from being able to attend pro sports events. On the other hand I have, personally, witnessed one veteran coaching two other veterans how to game the system to achieve disability ratings of 100% (to include which VA forms to fill out and when to submit). I was in the library of the Manhattan VA hospital. Back in those days I was more concerned with my injuries than with reporting fraud.
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SFC Volunteer For Veterans Help Organization
SFC (Join to see)
>1 y
I agree 100% with your post. Currently, I’m at 30%. I have been diagnosed with PTSD, but I didn’t file a claim for it for personal reasons. If you stay in long enough to retire, DFAS subtracts your disability payment from your retirement pay. It’s total bullshit, but that’s a fact. When I hear about fakers getting 100% for PTSD and the facts of their case is sketchy at best, my blood boils. Them taking resources they do not deserve, well, they are pond scum. I guess if I wanted to get on the band wagon and do the same, I could, legally with all my support documents. I don’t because I feel there are some out there that truly deserve it more than me. Unfortunately, there are those that don’t.
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SGM Bill Frazer
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Anyone witnessing a traumatic act can develop PTSD,, just look at 1st responders. It does sound very fishy, but PTSD is never cut and dried. It is possible that fraud occurred, trick is going to be finding someone to prove it.
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SGM Bill Frazer
SGM Bill Frazer
>1 y
PFC Joe Fugo joe chill- I'm a member of Till Vahalla, 22 too many, E TN Vet2Vet counseling group, and life members of every Vet group in town to include PGR. Have way too many Gold Star families as friends. We didn't say he didn't need help, even if faking it he still needs help, but we can't force him to get it.
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SSgt Richard Kensinger
SSgt Richard Kensinger
>1 y
PFC Joe Fugo - As a clinician of 5 decades and a former AF ER medic I can assure you I am very concerned. I share my research on combat trauma w/ a number of VA entities and will be doing so again for The Warriors Project early next week via a video conference. I can share copies of my research on combat trauma w/ any one on this platform Just contact me " [login to see] "
Rich
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SMSgt John Lemon
SMSgt John Lemon
5 y
PFC, you seem to be someone that would rather choke on your words than say something positive. Why all the negativity? Who shit in your cheerios?
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SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth
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There definitely needs to be a criminal investigation into this, sounds like the person played people as suckers. J S.
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SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth
SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth
>1 y
PFC Joe Fugo True there brother.
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SMSgt John Lemon
SMSgt John Lemon
5 y
That's what the VA IG is for. If you think VA employees are lazy report them. If you think VA employees are defrauding the American taxpayer then report them. Don't just wallow in self-pity and negativity do something about it.
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SFC Louis Willhauck, MSM, JSCM, and ARCOM
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Edited 5 y ago
In my case I think just dealing with the VA is a cause of PTSD !
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Lt Col Jim Coe
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PTSD is a psychological problem, so I'm not qualified to say if a person has it. You may not be either. Possibly it can be cured or come and go. I don't know, so it makes resolving the entire situation you lay out impossible for me and possibly difficult for a mental health professional.
As far as fraudulent enlistment goes, I think that ship sailed when the Soldier was discharged from the Guard. If you truly believe the soldier if defrauding the VA, contact the VA Inspector General. Be sure to have all of your facts together and documented as well as you can. Only way I can think of for the situation to go anywhere.
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CW5 Jack Cardwell
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Released from duty or released from the Army National Guard? What type discharge from Active Duty and the Army National Guard ?
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MSgt B Grimes
MSgt B Grimes
>1 y
Unknown for certain, but presume that member was honorably released from Active duty, then enlisted in Guard. Member was released from guard due to PTSD and threats to kill his team and comrades. PTSD claims are based upon Active service. I would have thought member to have claimed upon return from deployment, not months or years later. Furthermore, if member was suffering following active duty, when enlisting in the Guard, is there not forms that must be signed stating pre-existing conditions? i.e PTSD during Active service commitment.
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SFC Casey O'Mally
SFC Casey O'Mally
>1 y
MSgt B Grimes PTSD does not necessarily manifest immediately or suddenly. It can be triggered later or grow to become unmanageable over time.
Having a traumatic event 2 years ago can still cause new issues today.

I am not there, I do not know, and I refuse to attempt to diagnose from afar. However, it is POSSIBLE this Soldier entered the Guard in good faith and reasonably good mental health, only to deteriorate based on previous trauma.
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SPC Albert Schafer
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Edited 5 y ago
When I first got married the State of Ohio awarded a payment of around $170.00 to every serviceman and woman who served during the Viet Nam War. I never made it to Viet Nam but served in Korea and the Dominican Revolution... I made the mistake of mentioning it to my Dad during a trip to visit my family in Michigan.. Never thought twice that he would have the reaction he had? I don't think I ever saw him so mad.. He believed that I had accepted money from the government under false pretenses... and had no right to that money...
He had served in the Construction Battalions of the U.S. Navy during WW II. The SeaBees were absorbed into the U.S. Navy later in the war but he was a Civilian serving the Navy building runways in the Marianna Islands... I never even knew he was a SeaBee and he NEVER talked about it... Never.
My Dad would never have ever taken any money from the VA unless he lost his leg in service and I believe it would have had to be BOTH legs... Most honorable man I have ever knew...
He worked for Otis Elevator for most of his life and was know to pick a job clean of scrap wire at clean up time. I never knew why until after he died.... Every weekend we would build a fire and toss all the insulated copper wire into the fire to burn the rubber off and then hit the pile with ball bats to separate the copper out.... then is would disappear. Never knew what he did with it until his funeral.. Ten percent of the church was filled with Nuns from a Detroit convent. He took the copper and sold it to a scrapyard and gave the money to the nuns... He did that for decades...
They told the story his generosity and effort at the church.. He was the best self-made engineer and mechanic I ever met.... I never he knew the stories of him because he never bragged about his service time... he was self made and self reliant....
Any one who falsely claims damages for fabricated injuries should be hit in the head with a hammer.
Rat bastards is what they are....
Leave the money for the soldiers that need and deserve it... isn't a day goes by that I don't think of him.
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LCpl Rich Vail
LCpl Rich Vail
>1 y
Your dad was/is a badass. WW2 CB's were the shit. Not only did they build crap in SW Pacific, they often did it under fire...and didn't get hazardous duty pay for it. Most in the early days were master carpenters/masons/etc., and were vastly underpaid for their skill sets. The CB's today still have a tremendous reputation of being able to build ANYTHING with little assets! 07!
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SFC William Farrell
SFC William Farrell
>1 y
SPC Albert Schafer Your Dad sounds a lot like mine. WOuld never take a dime from anyone. He was most deaf as he got older and kept telling him to go to the VA for hearing aids. He didn't think he deserved it from the VA. He was a WWII vet and when he left the military, he felt that was the end of it. I finally convinced him to go to the VA and he made an appointment. Was hospitalized and couldn't make his appt. Made another one, hospitalized agin. He died shortly afterwards and was never seen. He retired from the railroad and had a free lifetime travel pass but when I was hospitalized in Virginia four years ago, he paid over $700 on Amtrak for him and his girlfriend to come and visit me. I found those receipts in his papers six months after his death and my surgery.
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1px xxx
Suspended Profile
5 y
Your dads sound awesome, sadly that is not the mentality anymore. Generations have changed. I have an old soul and I believe and try to act 'old fashioned' if I can. I understand times change but its sad so many parents do not instil some of their grandparents ethics/morales.
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