Posted on Aug 22, 2014
Feelings on displaying the Confederate flag on your POV or person while on a military installation?
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Recently, I had a long and heated discussion with a fellow veteran about this issue. I don't know for sure whether a branch-specific reg or a DoD-wide reg exists that prohibits/allows personnel on a military installation to display the Confederate flag on their personal vehicle or on their person (e.g. a belt buckle). Maybe this is a base-specific policy and left to the judgment of the installation commander. Display of the Confederate flag is a divisive issue and people often feel really strongly one way or the other. But today, it is still a relevant topic and touches on other military leadership/discipline areas, including the actions of one member deeply offending another member -- regardless of whether said action is legal/authorized. That can create huge problems in a military unit, and this happened in a unit I personally served in. So, below are my questions for the RallyPoint community about this issue.
Please try to keep comments professional (don't attack one another) and explain your thoughts as best you can.
Questions:
(1) How do you feel about the Confederate flag being displayed on the vehicle/person of a service member if he/she is ON post? How does your opinion change if the member is OFF post?
(2) What does the Confederate flag symbolize to you personally? What do you think it can symbolize to other people around you who may perceive it differently?
(3) If you have personally experienced a military-related situation where a symbol/flag caused someone to be offended, what happened and what did you/would you have done as the leader?
I look fwd to everyone's thoughts on this. Personally, I have some strong feelings about this issue, though I don't want to bias people's answers upfront. Please be as honest as possible.
Tag: SSG Emily Williams Col (Join to see) 1SG Steven Stankovich SSG Scott Williams 1LT Sandy Annala CPT (Join to see) SSG V. Michelle Woods MSG Carl Cunningham
Please try to keep comments professional (don't attack one another) and explain your thoughts as best you can.
Questions:
(1) How do you feel about the Confederate flag being displayed on the vehicle/person of a service member if he/she is ON post? How does your opinion change if the member is OFF post?
(2) What does the Confederate flag symbolize to you personally? What do you think it can symbolize to other people around you who may perceive it differently?
(3) If you have personally experienced a military-related situation where a symbol/flag caused someone to be offended, what happened and what did you/would you have done as the leader?
I look fwd to everyone's thoughts on this. Personally, I have some strong feelings about this issue, though I don't want to bias people's answers upfront. Please be as honest as possible.
Tag: SSG Emily Williams Col (Join to see) 1SG Steven Stankovich SSG Scott Williams 1LT Sandy Annala CPT (Join to see) SSG V. Michelle Woods MSG Carl Cunningham
Regulation
Policy
Respect
Confederate Flag
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 325
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I don't have a problem with it. My grandmother was a member of the Daughters of the Confederacy and my father was a member of the Sons of the Confederacy.
They were mostly historical societies and did a lot of genealogical and historical studies. The Confederacy is our family background on my father's side; my mother's family fought for the Union.
There is no call to continue to disparage our family or our traditions over things that happened generations ago.
Those that are hypersensitive over the Stars and Bars today need to look into their own histories a bit more closely - they will find plenty to be ashamed of in their own houses without going about tearing down others.
For what it is worth, I also have German and Jewish relatives in my family tree, but I don't go about fighting WWII all over again.
The thing about history is that it is past; we cannot change it by trying to erase its memory or hold today's generations responsible for things their ancestors did. The best thing we can do is to study history and try to learn from it not to repeat the failures of the past.
They were mostly historical societies and did a lot of genealogical and historical studies. The Confederacy is our family background on my father's side; my mother's family fought for the Union.
There is no call to continue to disparage our family or our traditions over things that happened generations ago.
Those that are hypersensitive over the Stars and Bars today need to look into their own histories a bit more closely - they will find plenty to be ashamed of in their own houses without going about tearing down others.
For what it is worth, I also have German and Jewish relatives in my family tree, but I don't go about fighting WWII all over again.
The thing about history is that it is past; we cannot change it by trying to erase its memory or hold today's generations responsible for things their ancestors did. The best thing we can do is to study history and try to learn from it not to repeat the failures of the past.
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PO1 Ron Clark
Captain, "Those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it", that flag represents or represented "Insurgents" inside the walls of this great country. There is only one flag which should be flown on military installations and on post period, it is the one which your allegiance and oath was sworn to. Now, I was sworn in under the American flag, I dont know how other units do it. I see the flag of the insurgents overseas the same as I see this rebel flag, the enemy no matter who it offends. I pledge allegiance to the United States and the U.S. Flag itself, NO OTHER!
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Capt Seid Waddell
PO1 Ron Clark, agreed - my allegiance is also to the American flag, but I have family on both sides of the late unpleasantness between the states, and I won't dishonor any of them. Those that fought under the Stars and Bars were just as patriotic as those that fought under the Stars and Stripes - and both sides bled red.
It was a different time and place, and men on both sides fought and died for their homeland and their beliefs. We can't judge them by today's perspective.
It was a different time and place, and men on both sides fought and died for their homeland and their beliefs. We can't judge them by today's perspective.
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LCpl James Robertson
Most blacks if you grew up in the south worked on farms of the owners that displayed the confederated flags were very anti - black, even thought they would employee you. They usually were hateful towards you, you could not use there front door when you came over to be paid it were always the black door are side door. The store owners who displayed the confederate usually keep a mean dog in his store, if blacks came around they could not enter the store until the owner had completed pumping gas, even at Greyhound Bus Stations, once the owners realized there were all blacks waiting at his bus stop, after working on tobacco farms for the Klu Klux Klan all week long he would take out about a 12' foot buggy whip and begin to use it in the his parking lot to keep blacks off his property. Grocery stores also had parakeets that when a black person came into the store, the parakeet were trained to say "n---er stealing so everyone would take notice, to keep and eye on the black person. No, this flag is definitely oppression toward blacks.
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I've never had a problem with the Confederate flag. I've always seen it as the symbol it is. A battle flag. I've respect for what that symbol is and means to others; symbol of strength and fortitude of Americans. It has also been recognized by congress as a flag of America, for lack of a better term. Flying this flag, anywhere, is not/ and should not be a crime. It is the same as (no disrespect intended) flying, wearing the colors, logos... of your favorite NFL team. Anybody who views the Confederate flag with anything but respect and maybe even some pride is certainly viewing it in a light that should be turned off.
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During my first tour in Korea, my roommate had a Confederate flag on his wall. Our African-American 1SG did not mind my roommate having that flag while performing a barracks inspection however he was upset that my roommate had a People's Republic of China flag.
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A couple of things.
1. Anytime someone quotes a Regulation they need to be able to find it. There have been a couple of times that someone tried to use a reg for why I had no authority to do something. When I looked them up, they either did not say what they thought or it was changed. always verify.
2. The Confederate flag has different meanings dependent of how informed a person is on its history. If they want to be indignant on something they do not understand they will be. Most will not look in to its history. A Buddhist symbol is just like a swastika to someone that does not know the difference. The swastika has been in use for thousands of years before Hitler and in many cultures it still means eternal life.
3. I would say if you have an issue with something like a flag or bumper sticker on my car or bag you can take to me about it. Talk not yell. If you are in the mental state that you have to replace a honest logical conversation with yelling then you have stopped caring about the meaning and just want to yell till you win. At that point I will stop listening.
1. Anytime someone quotes a Regulation they need to be able to find it. There have been a couple of times that someone tried to use a reg for why I had no authority to do something. When I looked them up, they either did not say what they thought or it was changed. always verify.
2. The Confederate flag has different meanings dependent of how informed a person is on its history. If they want to be indignant on something they do not understand they will be. Most will not look in to its history. A Buddhist symbol is just like a swastika to someone that does not know the difference. The swastika has been in use for thousands of years before Hitler and in many cultures it still means eternal life.
3. I would say if you have an issue with something like a flag or bumper sticker on my car or bag you can take to me about it. Talk not yell. If you are in the mental state that you have to replace a honest logical conversation with yelling then you have stopped caring about the meaning and just want to yell till you win. At that point I will stop listening.
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@CPT Aaron Kletzing, @1LT Sandy Annala, Please see, LCpl James Robertson's response to MAJ Jason Miller re: the Confederate Flag. His is an extremely moving reminder of preducices most Americans are not aware of! Discussions such as this are very disturbing.
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personally...whenever I see it being flown at events like a concert or a diesel truck show ( I dont go to those, but I live by the fair grounds that hosts one every year) I just point and laugh and think to myself "idiots!"
I also do not think it should be flown for the very simple reason...they are flags of a nation whose ass we kicked in war...yes, Virgina, the north DID win the Civil War...so, no, it should not be flown...or be given any special favor...its the flag of a losing side...
I also do not think it should be flown for the very simple reason...they are flags of a nation whose ass we kicked in war...yes, Virgina, the north DID win the Civil War...so, no, it should not be flown...or be given any special favor...its the flag of a losing side...
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I was doing a websearch for the Philippine KKK flag and found that the Sons of Confederate Veterans have been "fighting" against the KKK for use of the American Flag. The KKK have been flying the American Flag for decades.
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Excellent topic... and I am way late.
I know this is not new, but this has been on my list since I left NJ in 1980... As a NJ resident, this flag/symbol etc always meant racism, white supremacy, and hate to me; plain and simple. I am educated, and I understand this particular symbol has different meanings to different people, based on where you are from, and even what color you are.
I have listened to both sides, and ultimately it is about what others think it means, not what you think it means. I see it, today, as insensitive and out of bounds. If I could, I would outlaw it.
Aside from personal feelings (bias/prejudice), I first saw this an issue, when I was at West Point, at an Army Football Game. Army was playing the Citadel, and all their fans were waving the confederate flag in the visiting teams seats... It was not well received and very emotional to many... At West Point, in NY, and in the Army, it was not considered to be a good thing... The Citadel crowd just saw it as normal...
Another time, as a TAC Officer, I had to explain to a Cadet (Plebe/Freshman) from Georgia, who had a full size confederate flag in his room, why he should not/could not have this displayed...
Now that I deal with HS students, this is actually part of the curriculum (Cultural Diversity, and being a Leader in a culturally diverse world). We actually discuss this and many other symbols. Still, since our student population is over 75% military family members, who move around a lot, the opinions are varied. This is actually one of my favorite classes.
I generally ask the Cadets how they would feel if their leader had this as a tattoo, or how would they feel if they reported to their leader and that leader had this flag hanging behind their desk (I have actually seen that).
In the end, they are all symbols, and as a leader you need to focus on what it means to everyone, not just the one displaying it.
I know this is not new, but this has been on my list since I left NJ in 1980... As a NJ resident, this flag/symbol etc always meant racism, white supremacy, and hate to me; plain and simple. I am educated, and I understand this particular symbol has different meanings to different people, based on where you are from, and even what color you are.
I have listened to both sides, and ultimately it is about what others think it means, not what you think it means. I see it, today, as insensitive and out of bounds. If I could, I would outlaw it.
Aside from personal feelings (bias/prejudice), I first saw this an issue, when I was at West Point, at an Army Football Game. Army was playing the Citadel, and all their fans were waving the confederate flag in the visiting teams seats... It was not well received and very emotional to many... At West Point, in NY, and in the Army, it was not considered to be a good thing... The Citadel crowd just saw it as normal...
Another time, as a TAC Officer, I had to explain to a Cadet (Plebe/Freshman) from Georgia, who had a full size confederate flag in his room, why he should not/could not have this displayed...
Now that I deal with HS students, this is actually part of the curriculum (Cultural Diversity, and being a Leader in a culturally diverse world). We actually discuss this and many other symbols. Still, since our student population is over 75% military family members, who move around a lot, the opinions are varied. This is actually one of my favorite classes.
I generally ask the Cadets how they would feel if their leader had this as a tattoo, or how would they feel if they reported to their leader and that leader had this flag hanging behind their desk (I have actually seen that).
In the end, they are all symbols, and as a leader you need to focus on what it means to everyone, not just the one displaying it.
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LCDR (Join to see)
Sir,
If we're going to focus on it as a symbol, then we have to fully regard it as such, including what it means when we denigrate or attempt to ban that symbol. As a southerner, if I'm told to take it off my truck, what I hear loud and clear is "we welcome everyone but you, Hillbilly."
If we're going to focus on it as a symbol, then we have to fully regard it as such, including what it means when we denigrate or attempt to ban that symbol. As a southerner, if I'm told to take it off my truck, what I hear loud and clear is "we welcome everyone but you, Hillbilly."
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