Posted on Oct 16, 2016
How would you react to an E2 who "smart mouths" you in formation?
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Here's the background. You're a senior E5. Your troops are in formation and you're handing out work for the day. You hand out an assignment to a fresh E2 with less than a year in and only a few months at your command. They blatantly complain and tell you to choose someone else. You calmly tell them they will do this task and they tell you to shove it and give it to someone else. How do you react?
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 3697
In 1972 I was the E-5 night shift supervisor in my squadron's power plants shop. I supervised two other E-5s, but I was supervisor and inspector.
After the others had completed some work on the engines on an SH-3 helicopter, I inspected it and went into sign it off so it could be flight tested. I told one of the other two to install the firewall between the engines, and he told me to do it myself. I informed him that he had 3 choices, replace the firewall, get written up, or have me kick his ass. He chose to replace the firewall. I looked over at our E-9 Maintenance Chief, and he just smiled.
After the others had completed some work on the engines on an SH-3 helicopter, I inspected it and went into sign it off so it could be flight tested. I told one of the other two to install the firewall between the engines, and he told me to do it myself. I informed him that he had 3 choices, replace the firewall, get written up, or have me kick his ass. He chose to replace the firewall. I looked over at our E-9 Maintenance Chief, and he just smiled.
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"Front lean rest position ,,,,,,MOVE ,,,,,, " No time for the bullshit. If your in combat you do not have time for this shit. When everyone is doing the assigned jobs you come back to him and find out whats up. Then make the choice if this person needs to even be in the service anymore.
If one of my employees told me no I would send them home for good.
Eight years I served. I cleaned toilets, dishes, hallways. Worked hours on hours. Earned rank and became a leader. I knew what I signed up for and so does he.
Roll his ass out the door.........
If one of my employees told me no I would send them home for good.
Eight years I served. I cleaned toilets, dishes, hallways. Worked hours on hours. Earned rank and became a leader. I knew what I signed up for and so does he.
Roll his ass out the door.........
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Inform his team leader about the next step, that would be article 15th 45/45. N reduction in rank and grade. The most important thing for any military member is OUR PERSONAL TIME...
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To complain is normal, to tell a E5 to shove it is a bery big mistake. I would quickly call him to attention and help him extract his head out of his ass. them i would order him to the pushup position where i would make him recite the E2 warrent word for word all while in the pushup position. then i would give him a page 11 entry into his SRB for insubordination, then he would get barracks restriction for a couple of weeks, then i would pull him off to the side and ask him if he understands just how miserable i can make his life. if he responds properly i may consider removing him from my shit list
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An E Duce , as I remember is a Private, not Private Firse Class, as You Were, the Private would have Duty for about a month after an ass reaming He would never forget, if I got flack the Private would become a Private Fucking Civilian...
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I would pray that this incident would not come up in any of my people. They would all ready know that he just screwed the rest of the Plt. Only takes one and every one pays the price. Yes I would correct him and the rest of the people losing their liberty we would never have shitbird do it again.
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At the end of formation, I would pull the "smart mouth" E-2 and a senior solider and have a word with the E-2 that is not the way you conduct yourself as a military personnel. Than you have the senior soldier and the "smart mouth" E-2 donthe task that you assigned him to do together.
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We called wall to wall counselling and not only had to deal with power enlisted had to deal with a few fresh 2nd it
Ok the army changed not for the good this shit need to be stoped asap.
Ok the army changed not for the good this shit need to be stoped asap.
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March him out of voice reach and leave him there. Don't yell at him or berate him. Then find your superior and ask him where he would like you to put him
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NONE dared sass me,they knew I would hit them regardless of regs ,rules or opinions.You hired on to do a JOB and BY GOD that job WILL be done,as too insults, well, THAT is basic communication before one achieves the rank of an NCO.
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They'd find out in about 1 millisecond that I could chew ass and get their attention faster than any D.I./Company Commander ever could.
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The senior E5 schedules an extra training session at the end of the work day. The extra session consist of digging a 4 ft. hole. After the hole is dug, the E5 goes to inspect the hole but has a newspaper with him. The E5 throws the newspaper into the hole and tells the E2 to fill in the hole. After the hole is filled in the E5 asks the E2 what the headlines were on the newspaper. The E2's response is I do not know. The E5 then requires the E2 to dig the newspaper up and find out. The E5 then responds with a remark like "Outstanding". Now fill the hole back in, explaining to the E2 that orders are to be obeyed, to let this training session be a reminder to follow all orders that come from others that outrank him. Note: this is not extra duty or punishment, but merely extra training in discipline.
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In the '70s & '80s the commands of Half right, FACE; front leaning rest position; MOVE; then explain again to the entire Squad/section the assignments for the day and the reason for the front leaning rest position was because PVT XXX did not comprehend the assignments when you stated them the first time. Usually the issue was resolved by the junior enlisted behind your back. Today however...
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First dismiss all other team members. Then ask quietly what is this airmans problem with his/her assigned duty. If this airman proceeds to mouth off more, you proceed to write him up, Letter of Counselling (LOC). Take this problem child to your immediate section supervisor, explain this child's problem with authority and present his LOC. Watch problem child's reaction to his mouthing off. He'll mouth off again to the section supervisor, who will give this child another LOC which the supervisor will immediately kick this up to the squadron executive officer. Who will most likely recommend extra duty or Article 15 action. With the right to accept non judical punishment or court marshal, this airman might go for court marshal. But after spending a month in jail (with details), he/she might see the light. But it will be too late to find religion.
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First of all I would rather fight a grizzly bear covered in elk steaks than mouth off at the NCOs in my first duty station.
That being said on the spot corrected action should be taken along with every shit detail to be found.
That being said on the spot corrected action should be taken along with every shit detail to be found.
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How anyone reacts depends on if they are 'in the "clique" with the higher chain of command. For many years as a senior E-6 I had this very problem along with several other problems with the higher command. Eventually, it led to receiving a certified letter in the mail explaining that I was honorably discharged from the military and could not rejoin any military branch anywhere within my state of Tennessee. I was not allowed to appeal or know why I was being discharged. I am happy to say I served and stood my ground to being treated unfairly. Today's military is NOT for me !!!! I encourage anyone thinking of joining the military to continue their education and find a career outside the military.
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Have to agree with Gunny Pepper. The first step in the process of eliminating improper behavior is to start at the lowest level of authority and explain the issue to the miscreant first hand so he is fully aware of all of the ramifications of said behavior, then outline what the potential punishment might be from company punishment in an Article 15 all the way to an administrative discharge under AR 635-212 (or the respective service's equivalent) which is doubtful given the nature of his behavior but more likely under AR 635-206 (again or the respective service's equivalent) which could result in another than honorable discharge. A summary court martial is also a probable outcome for continued insubordination. Then at that point, since the offense has already been committed, give him the order one more time. If I got the same result. I would request that he be brought up on charges for insubordination.
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If it was the first time this has happened I would give out all the other tasks that need too be performed and have the Private stand fast and meet me in private too see exactly what the troops issue is. After I gave Him/Her the chance too explain as there might be something more serious going on here I would send the troop on there way. If they still refuse ART15 as I dont have time too waste on troops that don't want to comply. If this has happened before drop them too make an example of what not too do and issue a ART15 of course. If it continues past that well they will be on there their way out soon.
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