Posted on Oct 16, 2016
How would you react to an E2 who "smart mouths" you in formation?
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Here's the background. You're a senior E5. Your troops are in formation and you're handing out work for the day. You hand out an assignment to a fresh E2 with less than a year in and only a few months at your command. They blatantly complain and tell you to choose someone else. You calmly tell them they will do this task and they tell you to shove it and give it to someone else. How do you react?
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 3697
What is a senior e5? You're an e 5 or not. when you got it, how long you have held it, etc. doesnt matter. you're in front of that formation, you are in charge. There could be e-6's standing there.. you're in charge.
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SGT Robert Mcfadden
SGT Alan Dike - air assault school,cpl's in charge of majors and above. Lol, senior officers had to run just like the rest of us.
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SGT Alan Dike
SGT Robert Mcfadden - In the performance of their duties, there are many times when a lower ranking can outrank a more SR personnel. In the performance of their duties, MP's act with the authority of the CG of the post. Staff Duty NCO acts with the authority of the Brigade or BN CSM (which can actually have more SR personnel assigned to his detail while he maintains authority). Operations, while in performance of their duties, like handing out taskings, etc to PLT leaders act with the authority of the Commander of the unit, and in such case that NCOIC of operations can very well have authority over a LT... for that single event of assigning that tasking. As you said, in classes, the instructor is the one in charge, regardless of rank of the students in the room.
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One time I lost it and another time I said sure. Get back in line and we will see what we have for you. Either way it did not turn out well for the E-2.
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I would respond with "Looks like Private E-Nothing just volunteered for extra duties & details".
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First off I would have never beed that way in formation. I was enlisted for years before going Officer. So based on that information I once...ONCE jokingly smart mouthed my E6 when I was an E4. Something about who should take the trash when he was standing right next to it. I stupidly said "well jump your happy ass up and grab it". The ass chewing came from the other NCOs and Enlisted guys in the truck. I was publicly shamed by my peers. I honestly didn't mean disrespect to my E6. That worked for me for decades. I retired a Major and to this day I regret saying that.
In this case you cant just gut punch the punk. But you can PT his ass along with his E5, E7 and hech toss in his LT. A little group therapy works. Kinda sets him up for publicly shaming himself with their help.
In this case you cant just gut punch the punk. But you can PT his ass along with his E5, E7 and hech toss in his LT. A little group therapy works. Kinda sets him up for publicly shaming himself with their help.
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Give the Platoon Sergeant the look that says, you got this, and walk away.
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Back in my day, it would have involved a ass whooping or a blanket party. I'm guessing you can't do either with these snowflakes nowadays.
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SFC Lyle Green
In 67, drafted at 18, every DI we had wore a CIB and VN unit patch. Mostly Black, Big, Loud and mean as the likes I or we had never seen before. Back them most young men, what ever your race or background was, had the one key survival trait...Discipline. Respect for Authority Figures. Later I learned, the main purpose of the DI was to invoke a recruit to get out with a section 8, (mental discharge) or discharge due to unable to adapt to military service, don't remember the proper name. The DIs were brutal, as Gary said, back then the DI could harass even know your clock off, or get the blanket w/bar of soap treatment. But the most common discipline I can remember during basic was the unruly recruited would be sent to admin training which was for as many days as it took to get the person in line, if not he would be discharged. yet if my memory serves me, I can only recall the sever actions being done on two people only, and both were tremendously overweight.
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What we usually do in a case like that We take the E2 and have him, duck walk with his rifle around the parade ground..and the parade ground is all sand then we inspect the rifle after he comes aound the 1 time,Guess what not only does he have a dirty piece but he has to go around again.
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Calmly tell the shit-bird "very well" and give the assignment to the biggest, baddest guy in the unit adding that it will happen every time private shit-bird doesn't want to do his share of the work. Wait and see if he mouths off again.
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First off he would be pushing the ground down ,he would get every shit detail that came along and a article 15 for disrespect. Just like the old days but today the Drill is not allowed to do squat. No disrespect but the higher ups need to grow a set and let the drills be drills.
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First thing to do is get very quiet. This forces every one to listen closely, and more often gets better attention than shouting does. You ask the soldier if he remembers taking his oath, wherein he swore to follow the orders of the officers appointed over him? You remind him that he is an E-2 under your command a non-commissioned officer, and if he can't understand that or follow your lawful orders, you will be glad to march him down to the First Sergeant, where we can start proceedings for a General Courts Martial.
I did that exactly once with a troublesome troop. He called my bluff, then found out I wasn't bluffing. I marched the soldier down to the orderly room (after finishing the other assignments first) and told top to start paperwork for a an Article 15, that this barracks lawyer would then likely request and require a General court. Top gave out a low whistle and asked the Private if he understood his oath. The soldier said he did, but looked confused. The first shirt told his clerk to get the article ready, and then the soldier asked if there was a way out. I said at this point the only way of of the Article was requiring a General Court. He did, and found himself out of the army a few months later.
I never had another problem again, as word had gotten around.
I did that exactly once with a troublesome troop. He called my bluff, then found out I wasn't bluffing. I marched the soldier down to the orderly room (after finishing the other assignments first) and told top to start paperwork for a an Article 15, that this barracks lawyer would then likely request and require a General court. Top gave out a low whistle and asked the Private if he understood his oath. The soldier said he did, but looked confused. The first shirt told his clerk to get the article ready, and then the soldier asked if there was a way out. I said at this point the only way of of the Article was requiring a General Court. He did, and found himself out of the army a few months later.
I never had another problem again, as word had gotten around.
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CW3 (Join to see)
This is the closest thing to "What right looks like" I've read, so far. MUCH better than the power trips and temper tantrums I'm seeing from a lot of shockingly high ranking SMs on this thread. Kudos.
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An even better question yet. Your an E3, (yeah I wasn't always the best of soldiers) and your the range master, for a long range shooting class. But an officer (a major) don't like that thought, and asks, "Why do I have to listen to him, he's just a PFC?"
My company commander, (a captain) handled it wee in my opinion. He asked the major straight out, "Sir, can you hit a man size target, at 1,000 meters?" The major's reply, "No on can do that." The captain, "All do respect sir, he can and that is why HE is your range master today." There were no other questions.
As to the E2 not wanting to do his assignment, extra duty, CCF, and article 15, OR IN MY DAY OF BASIC TRAINING, the drill instructor and the E 2, step into the bathroom for a bit more serious discussion.
My company commander, (a captain) handled it wee in my opinion. He asked the major straight out, "Sir, can you hit a man size target, at 1,000 meters?" The major's reply, "No on can do that." The captain, "All do respect sir, he can and that is why HE is your range master today." There were no other questions.
As to the E2 not wanting to do his assignment, extra duty, CCF, and article 15, OR IN MY DAY OF BASIC TRAINING, the drill instructor and the E 2, step into the bathroom for a bit more serious discussion.
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"You will follow orders or you will be short of cash next payday. You choose."
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If I am not mistaken, an individual that shows themself to have a personality inconsistant with military service, may be summarily discharged without gaining any advantages for their service. If I were your company commander, they would have been on the "first thing smokin" out.
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Take the young Pfc aside and explain he does not have the right to refuse orders .. He will either comply or face Punishment under Article 15 UCMJ.. Conduct continues separate from Military.. Do not pass them along and make some one else put him out..My unit we had 2 types of Troops those that we were keeping in and those we were putting out!
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Up against me back in the day? Your my dog! We are going to play games my way! Full ruck at 50 pounds, lbe, helmet! You are two steps to the left, two steps back. If I stop you immediately go to parade rest, if I turn around you go to position of attention immediately and drop to the front leaning rest and commence 20 push-ups, you will do this for a solid week! At night you are restricted to barracks, this will continue into the weekend which is now mine. I will volunteer you for 1SG detail during the extent of the weekend. Failure to follow my orders will result in a summary article 15. Bet your last dollar I would pursue it! I will have discipline in my ranks and make an example of you to the others. I actually did this with the blessings of Top and the CSM. He made the mistake of complaining to them. After they found out about his insubordination they wanted a piece of him. I don't know how they do it now but back in the day we didn't play. Running your mouth had severe consequences.
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Disobeying an order, disrespect to a senior NCO Article 15. Tighten all the sphincters simultaneously.
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"Sometimes people are defiant because something happened and they feel out of control so they try to take it wherever they can no matter how inappropriate. Sometimes a wife cheated or a parent died. Sometimes the hospital calls and congratulates you on having cancer" Really??? How about they are defiant because someone is shooting at them in combat or their buddy was just blown to pieces? Don't you think the whole purpose of unquestionable compliance to any lawful order is to make the Marine follow that order in spite of the horrible circumstances he/she is confronted with? When the mission is to take the beach, no one cares if you've had a bad day, the only thing that matters is that you complete your mission.
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