Posted on Oct 16, 2016
LTJG Ansi Officer
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Here's the background. You're a senior E5. Your troops are in formation and you're handing out work for the day. You hand out an assignment to a fresh E2 with less than a year in and only a few months at your command. They blatantly complain and tell you to choose someone else. You calmly tell them they will do this task and they tell you to shove it and give it to someone else. How do you react?
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LCDR Michael Gordon
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Edited 4 y ago
I had something of a similar situation happen with an E5 in my first command. Uniform was unsat, personal appearance was unsat, and when I was back-talked, I referred the member to my senior NCO (E7). "You'll not be having such a conversation with me. You will talk to Chief A." I explained what happened, told him of the uniform issues and appearance, and the back-talk to the CO (me), and had him handle it. I have no idea what he did, but next I saw the member, the member was in the proper uniform and squared away.
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MAJ Engineer Officer
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Never having been E5, I can't speak for the junior-NCO side on it. But lawful orders are lawful orders, and my thought is to counsel him in writing and give him the choice of three options: a) the MOST unpleasant alternate task I can think of at the moment (scrubbing port-o-johns by hand comes to mind, or rearranging rocks in front of HQ, or straightening photos & plaques throughout the ground floor with a bubble level and carpenter's square) daily for a week, b) do the refused task **to inspected standard** every morning for two weeks, or c) an Article 15.
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1LT James Rosebrough
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Have his squad leader counsel him. I was a 1/LT INF Platoon Leader.
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SPC Ray Orvin
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Bring back 1967 standards and punch him in his smart mouth
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CPO Jeffrey Bohemier
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Fortunately, I wasn’t ever an E-2 in the military. I came in as a 6YO in order to get additional schooling, as I had decided to make the military as a career before I even entered. As a junior member of the Navy, I was scared shitless of those for whom I worked for. That’s because I had gone to a military school during my 4 years of high school, and now I was dealing with the real deal. So I gave both respect AND followed orders of those over me.

Obviously this E2 hasn’t figured that out. Nor has he or she realized that shit rolls down hill, and as an E2, he or she is standing at the bottom, looking up. As a leader, I would have that person remain in place after everyone else (except one other more senior person to act as a witness to your corrective actions). I would then explain to that person in a friendly tone that we’ve all been in their shoes when we first started out and if they expect to start climbing that hill, they need to do better. Then I would change my tone to a rather loud, authoritative tone and told them that under NO CIRCUMSTANCES will I EVER explain myself to them again. They’re now in the MILITARY, not at McDonalds flipping burgers. And if they EVER show disrespect to either myself or another supervisor working on my behalf, I’ll put them on report and take both half their pay and their liberty for a few months. Then I would have them sign both a counselling sheet AND assign them EMI (Extra Military Instruction) that’s directly related to their infraction.

My method proved to be beneficial to those who worked for me. As a supervisor, I only had to put ONE person on report (that worked directly for me) over my entire career. That doesn’t count the numerous really bad and troubled students that forgot to leave their civilian egos, misbehavior, and criminal activities behind). That individual thought he could outright lie to me and get way with it, but I already knew his REAL story. I was a Course Manager and he was one of my on-block instructors. He decided to join a fishing tournament in Mobile, Alabama on a Monday while his students sat in their classroom (at Electronic Warfare Training on Corry Station in Pensacola, Florida). His excuse…he had a cracked windshield on his truck and needed to go to Mobile to get it fixed. Only, there was a dealership directly outside the base that could’ve fixed it. And obviously there’s companies that’ll come to you to replace a windshield as well. Not only did he loose his job as an instructor (along with a bunch of Liberty and half his pay), he also lost his instructor job and found himself handing out toilet paper until a ship was found that he could be sent to.

Oh…AND HE LOST THE FISHING TOURNAMENT AS WELL.
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PFC Robert Brooks
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Well as I have experience here in two ways. As a fresh recruit in my time you and I would have went behind building, and after getting a can of Whoop Butt given to me, you would walk back around and I would follow after dragging my butt off the ground. Never happen again. Forward two years fail piss test, (hey it happen in late 80,s in Germany barely 20 ;) ) back to E2 AGAIN same situation with new squad leader who didn't know how much time and experience I had. Waited till dismissed and approached the individual and tactfully presented my case, and did what was told.
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SPC Eileen Keller
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Edited 4 y ago
The soldier would spend the day with me. I would tell him/her loud enough for the whole formation to hear, "No problem, you are with me today." Not only would he/she accomplish the task I originally assigned but by the end of the day - that wouldn't necessarily end - that soldier would understand following orders to his/her advantage. After that I would have the soldier study military courtesies and the reasons behind them, of course after his/her other duties were accomplished each day. I would handpick his/her assignments until the message was honed in. No one is going to die because this soldier thought he/she thought he/she could determine which orders to follow. If I do my job right, he/she will become one squared away soldier.
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Sgt William Margeson
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Charge with ddisobeying lawful order and Article 15
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LtCol Paul Bowen
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Article 15 Hearing for demonstrating disrespect to a superior officer, service discrediting conduct, and failure to adapt to a military lifestyle.

“Other Tan Honorable” (OTH) administrative separation so they can return to the McDonald’s workforce.
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PO1 Don Hand
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This is tricky, because they don't realize that you too were a smartass e nothing once. We all were.

Best way to fix this (in my experience) was to put the E2 in charge for a day. Make him make the decisions. Make him answer to the Chief, stay in his hip pocket all day long. Give him the information, but make him do your job. All. Day. Long...

I did this with a guy, rode him all day long. Wore him like a shoe. And at the end of the day, all we had left was to get the trash out. So I told him so. He said :no problem, I got it..."

I said no, thats not your job. It is your job to make sure it gets out. I am going to give you a direct order to tell me "get the trash out..." he couldn't do it. It was hard for him. He had 18 months in, I had 20 years in. And I told him we could stare at that can all damn night and NO ONE is going anywhere until you sack up and tell me directly "You, get the trash out..."

Kid got all shaky, thought he was going to break. He finally said quietly, while looking down. "Please get the trash out..."

I told him nope. Look me in the eyes, and tell using your big boy voice.

"OS1, take the trash out!"

"No problem..."

I did this every Friday for the rest of the month. Rotated guys in and out. And I never had any problems again.

My Senior Chief got it. And thought it was hilarious. He'd find last minute "oh bytheways" for the guys. Simple stuff really, but hard for new guys. And the important thing here is not to throw guys under the bus, be there right beside them and coach them.

Your E2 might just learn something.
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PO2 Brian Hoadley
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Ask him his height?
He will respond with why?
You reply: Because I want to know if we have the right size mattress for your cell in the brig shitbag. Now get your ass on the move and on task or you will wait out your enlistment in a cell, eventually. Show them to the nearest posted UCMJ, fold your arms and wait.
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Sgt Dennis Krizan
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In NCO school, had a guy refuse to march in step & kept saying sh*t while we were going somewhere. Wasn't sure if it was a disrespect or race thing. Stopped the platoon once & asked him to march properly & stop w/the comments. He complied for a minute or two then at it again. Stopped the platoon again, left faced everyone. This time I told him if he doesn't knock off the chatter & stay in step, I won't do a thing until we get back. I will then write him up requesting a bust in rank & fine. I think fines averaged around $135ish then. This will hit you in the wallet. He was already at the rear of the platoon so his being out of step wasn't that big of a deal to the other guys/Marines, just looked like sh*t. He stayed in step & no chatter the rest of the day. Much later I wondered if he was a plant by the instructors to test me.
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MSG Alfred Aguilar
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I hate the "back in my day" crap but here it goes. I don't recall NCO's directly confronting a disobedient soldier. What they did was make everyone else's life much harder. The problem was usually quickly resolved once the rest of the platoon had some "alone time" with the wayward soldier. If the soldier continued to be a problem, he was quickly separated from service. These individuals have a corrosive effect on unit integrity.
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1SG Craig Gardner
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Cut one testicle off and you'll never have a problem with him again, nobody wants to say he has no balls
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SGT Infantryman
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“What was that buddy? Oh I got something ELSE for your stupid ass to do then”
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LCpl Cody Collins
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When I listed in the Marine Corps back in October 79 those Drill instructors put the fear of God in us. As long as you were an NCOE4 and above you got the respect of everybody under you it never occurred to me that smart mouth a question order yeah we might’ve stood around as we carried out the order we might’ve sat around and talked about how we thought it was a bunch of BS sometimes but that was out of fact that we didn’t understand what was going on but never well we Tele staff and CEO or sergeant or corporal to his face. “ I ain’t doing it” that’s an instant beat down, There was no counseling to be had, no one feel pity for you fortunately during my time in the Marine Corps from 79 to 88 I seen very little of that kind of mentality. It wasn’t until the early 90s and beyond that I started hearing rumors E-3’s and E-2’s telling a sgt to go F%ck off.
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SGT Jim Giffin
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This would be a result of the "Everyone Gets A Trophy" Generation. Assure the young Private the only trophy he will get is a quick Article 15 and Chaptered out. Make sure the whole company is made aware of this example.
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PO3 David Weaver
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Only one person comes out of the Goat locker
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SSgt Russell Stevens
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First time is a private verbal counseling immediately following formation. Second time is written. Further incidents get elevated up the chain until the attitude improves or separation action is taken.
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SP5 Dennis Dorsey
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Edited 4 y ago
In 1965 I volunteered for Vietnam. Ended up in Germany and somehow gathered an attitude problem. Realizing that the attitude problem would get me kicked out of the Army, I again volunteered for VN. After getting there, my attitude problem disappeared as there was way more pressing problems to worry about.
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SSG Ramon Torres
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Squad Atention, half right face...Private Snuffy drop...I will not stand for insubordination period. You will execute my orders and never question my decisions period. Any questions??? Private Snuffy recover. Squad half left face. Fall out... Private Snuffy at ease, this kind of negative attitude will not be tolerated, further disrespect can and will be grounds for an Article-15. Now do as I say! Dismiss...
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SSG Ramon Torres
SSG Ramon Torres
4 y
Attention forgot the additional t...
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SSG Edward Tilton
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I was an E-6 in an Army where most Private’s were there because they were drafted, if you let them get under your skin they owned you. Remove him from your formation and have him stand at ease facing a wall in a corner where he has to turn around to see anything. Move your formation far enough away that he can’t hear wahat you are saying. Go about your duty, check on him occasionally. Rinse, repeat
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LCpl David Warren
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The corps is different from when I was in, now I would start the paperwork to modify their behavior. If that doesn't work soon, they will be a civilian flipping burgers wishing they would have made a different decision.
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TSgt David Olson
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I’m reading this question and I can’t think of any response. In my time in the military, beginning in 1963, the Army, that would have been unthinkable. I have a question, is this common behavior or uncommon? Quality of recruits, quality of NCOs or other superiors? I spent three years as an AF basic training instructor, the mid to late 80’s. From minute one the trainees understood this was the USAF and not a debating society.
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CSM James Barzee
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You don't want to know...
They would be in for "extra duty" until they couldn't walk & then some diagnostic PT.
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SGT Michael Frachiseur
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I can see every a volunteer for every crap detail coming down the pike. Possible restriction, and escalating punishment for repeat offences.
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PO1 Mike Meehan
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I tell them "SA/FA, etc. Smith, remain after the Division is dismissed and we will talk about this." I would then have a discussion with the wayward Seaman/Fireman about who assigns work and how it is not a choice. If the E-2 does not know HOW to accomplish the task assigned, that is one thing, we can assign a qualified person to train them and sign them off as appropriate (which will also go back to the assignment in the first place, ensure you assign qualified people to tasks). If they are trained and qualified to the task notify them that they have finite time to complete it and liberty call does not commence until task completion. I always stayed after liberty call with an individual that drug their feet if such happened. They usually got the hint that they WERE going to do the work assigned, and that I wasn't going to let them go on liberty until they did. I had this happen several times with an E-4 when I was an E-6.
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CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana
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I welcome great, well-thought-out questions and I welcome curiosity, but I will not tolerate smart mouths in the middle of my formations, as a leader.

Generally, smart mouths are those soldiers who want to establish their knowledge, abilities and ideas ahead of others. However, there is a proper time and place for everything; there is an established chain of communication to bring forward brilliance and well-constructed ideas and, this established line of communication doesn't begin by being a smart mouth in my formations. This must be expressed without delay to the Team/Section/Squad leaders and platoon sergeants in the presence of the 1SG. Set the rules right from the outset.
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SSG Bill Cooke
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I had a situation like this one. The E2 is smart mouthing for sure. First drop and give me 20 push ups. Then after all the others are dismissed I took that E2 to my office and asked them why they felt they had the right to refuse the assignment. The E2 said something like I can't do that work as i have not been trained. I said go with this other soldier and he will train you. After training and you refuse again you will be doing extra duty which you do now want to do. Now go and do the work.
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SGT Keith Smith
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First been there and handled it. Now how I handled it. As a senior SERGEANT this becomes a question of respect not just disobedience and MUST be corrected. My first words in front of my soldiers is “ what the f#?! Is your major malfunction private?” This will demonstrate my authority in front of the soldiers and give him a chance to correct himself in front of everyone. Now some people do not get the hint. That’s when I send everyone else to do the assigned jobs. Then I will lock him up at parade rest and I will explain what is about to happen. He can either give me a reasonable explanation, receive corrective training, or we can write it down and begin the process to be out of the army. Now I have gotten responses where I was in the wrong and he did have a legitimate reason then it is your best judgment. I normally did not pursue the matter and after explaining how we were both in the wrong and how to handle this situation in the future we moved on. That’s wait till everyone else leaves and catch me after and explain the issue. This earns respect from everyone because you look fair and impartial. If on the other hand the reason is BS well we will decide on which corrective training. Now I explain that if I smoke him this will not allow further punishment but it is going to get very uncomfortable or he can continue to be disrespectful and in that case the army doesn’t need him and I will start the process to get him involuntarily separated from the military. Explain the process. Most of them choose smoking. At a minimum this will take an hour. I carried a tank ball bearing for such times. After I was done most could not left their arms past shoulder height, their legs were like noodles, and there were sweat stains on the ground. It has to last and it has to be enough so when he talks about it others do not want to do the same. Remember to strive to be fair and impartial, do not allow it to get personal stay come and in control. Do not raise your voice. I hope this helps.
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PO3 J.W. Nelson
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That young man or woman would be doing push-ups till they puked !!!
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PO3 J.W. Nelson
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He'd be doing push-ups till he puked !!!
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SGT Wheeled Vehicle Mechanic
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Seems pretty simple. After everyone falls out put this E2 in the front leaning rest. While he/she is there explain that there is a time and place for discussion and this was not one of them.

As a GOOD leader, you will then take this E2 to a private area and figure out why they feel the way they do and see if the problem is deeper rooted to something ie marital issues, financial issues, depression. Maybe this E2 feels like they are being neglected by leadership. Explain to them that they CANNOT and WILL not disrespect you in front of your subordinates and if it happens again they will feel the weight of a chapter packet come down on them very quickly.

As a leader it is YOUR responsibility to ensure that your troops are being taken care of and it is YOUR responsibility to fix their issues. The second that you start toting your rank around like it’s a battle axe is the second that you lose the faith and respect of your troops. Be the leader you wanted to have when you were coming up.
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1px xxx
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E5, so this is a squad, teams A and B? OR are you acting PSG?
ATTENTION, HALF RIGHT, FACE, BENDS AND MOTHERFUCKERS BEGIN, I count the cadence, you count the reps, 1, 2, 3, 4 1 Sargeant!(continue as needed)

Now that the entire group understands PFC/PV2/Squid Rating 2 is a dickhead and caused the entire group to get bent, we start over. Private Shitbird, you will clean the heads/latrines, regular work is then handed out to the rest of the squad/platoon. If it is one peckerhead in a squad, the entire squad remains to be bent. There will be no weak links in any squad, period because weak links get people hurt or killed in theater. Pvt Shitbir either learns or receives multiple statements(army is 4856) on performance, even though the reward for successes is given, and positive or negative punishment for infractions is received, he/she is chaptered out for Pattern of Misconduct, or Failure to Adapt.

If you are a good NCO this little bit of BS will go away fast as both the team and you correct this shitbird to become a good GI and commit to stellar performance
CPL Laron Buggs
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I'm going to let him know his role! There is a chain of command and what is expected of him. While saying all that he is in the front lean and rest position. There is a reason you are a E-5 and he is an E-2!
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PO2 Joseph Donahue
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In the Navy? After Quarters, take the E-2 to the Department's CPO.
It's the CPO's Duty to decide upon displinary actions.
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CPL José A CastroPacheco
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I'd pull him out of formation and get him counseled. If that one fails, time for re-training. Military personnel are not to pick what or which tasks given they will do. Discipline must prevail in the ranks otherwise it would be a clusterf**k and others will follow. Unacceptable!!
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This is one issue I disliked in Army compared to my time in the Marine Corps article 15 his ass. This was an on going issue in the Army because most units wouldn’t put paper on Soldiers they felt entitled. If I disrespected my Gunny in the Corps it would be straight to office hours article 15. You have issues with these kids and you better hammer one or two with 30/30 and that crap will end butt cold in a unit. The Army has to start using a stronger hand with some of these troops.
PO2 Weaver Brian
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See me in my shack immediately after quarters. That lad was about to receive some special counseling..
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SGT Unit Supply Specialist
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Maybe he is just testing the water and tries to challenge your authority. Or he is just blunt and stupid. You need to understand his purpose behind his behavior. Is he trying to work his way out of the Army? Obeying lawful order is the basic Soldier skill. I have had several Soldiers like that in the past. To be honest it is no fun dealing with the disobedient Soldier. You need to counsel him and let him know what is right and wrong. My previous Soldier always talked back to me and challenged my authority as a team leader. He was a PVT at the time. I smoked him during PT session, followed by a few other smoking sessions and counseling. It worked pretty well.
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SSgt Ajhadriel Galbreath
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First, Seek To Understand what he's really saying, Then Be Understood"(Stephen R. Covey -7 Habits Of Highly Successful People). This enables you to really understand what's going on, was he bullied or raped, are you mismanaging resources. Be a Principle -Centered Leader (Another Outstanding Stephen R. Covey best practice). "It's not my way or your way...it's what is the best way". Remember, Respect is Earned!
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PO1 David Shepardson
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Write him up.
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SSG Tom Montgomery
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I would have him stand fast as the rest of the platoon is released to cover their duties.
When we were alone, I would give him the assignment again. If he accepts it or not, the next step is to the orderly room to discuss following orders, with the 1SG. Afterwards, discuss with the 1SG and CO about ART-15, extra duty etc. Make a believer out of him quick.
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SGT Donovan Leeds
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I have the FM for Wall-to-Wall counseling around here somewhere...
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SGT Jason Weisbrich
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Wall to wall counseling and some extra duty with the team leader supervising should clear that up. Document it all and save it for the next time if there is one. UCMJ should be justified and the reasoning provable. Be sure you have a sworn statement from the team leader and a few others for good measure.
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SGT Jason Yago
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Better yet put him in a comfy chair and keep the formation at attention. Let him know in no uncertain terms he is letting his brother and sisters in arms down. His family their families etc. Put him on that assignment that he "doesn't like" until further notice till he learns humility. If he doesn't get out of that chair rapidly and snap to and do the job something tells me his peers will deal with him accordingly.
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SGT Jason Yago
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Offer him the option to be chaptered or comply explain it will ruin his life because his pansy ass probably talked to his own parents that let it go. Let them know your not mommy and daddy and your not gonna take his punk ass defiance. Give him an offer he can't refuse flipping burgers or serving out what he said he would do when he signed. If this kid has no honor let him know in no uncertain terms he isn't wanted amongst real soldiers. Hand him a Mcdonalds, burger king and KFC application and tell him to choose.
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SSG George Duncan
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say nata until after formation then get them to the side and explain, that stuff will not be tolerated and please don't do that again if it happens again your looking at least at ar/t 15 at best, and then get after making the world a better place
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SFC Tom Crenshaw
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This one's on me. You get one chance, and you've used it. Everything from here on will be official and permanent. Wanna lose any chance of ever advancing? Do it again.
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SGT Gary Tob
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Drop and give me 50
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