Posted on Oct 16, 2016
How would you react to an E2 who "smart mouths" you in formation?
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Here's the background. You're a senior E5. Your troops are in formation and you're handing out work for the day. You hand out an assignment to a fresh E2 with less than a year in and only a few months at your command. They blatantly complain and tell you to choose someone else. You calmly tell them they will do this task and they tell you to shove it and give it to someone else. How do you react?
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 3697
The only reason a subordinate in today’s military would talk to a superior in that manner is because they realize that today’s military has become completely pansy ass. He knows there’s not much you can do about it. If you reprimand him he’ll pick up his cell phone and call his mommy. I’m sure it’s just in his back pocket. And God forbid the E2 is of color or is multi gendered. Because then you’ll be labeled a racist homophobe. That is after he calls his mother.
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I refuse to answer that because it isn't my Army anymore. I wouldn't know what I was dealing with in today's Army. I suspect that in the near future, it may be Unionized. In the old days, the Sgt would have the E-2 dig a deep grave for a cigarette butt or march to and from the ranges with a rock filled knapsack and full battle gear. You won't see that in today's Army. Damn, they miss out of all the fun we were exposed to in the real days. LOL!!!!
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Have him stand fast after plt is dismissed. Explain you are in the Army and will follow lawful orders. If he still mouth off, counseling or “special duties”.
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I would have Private Turd Bird and his Squad Leader remain in place while I dismissed the rest of the platoon. Then I would explain to the Squad Leader and Private Turd Bird that ALL LAWFUL ORDERS MUST BE OBEYED INSTANTLY WITHOUT HESITATION. I would reiterate that we are in the Army not the Boy Scouts and that ALL things we do are training for our one and only purpose and that is to fight a war. Then I would send the Squad Leader on his merry way to do Squad Leader things. Then I would explain to Private Turd Bird that in combat you don't have time to think you only have time to act on orders you are given. Hesitation or refusal means either you die or someone else dies.
Then I would ask Private Turd Bird if he has ever heard of the Grass Drill? It teaches instantaneous compliance with orders! Start by running in place. "Attention, in place forward march, hup, ho, your left, Right, At the double in place forward march, Hup, Ho, Left, Right" "Now while you are running listen carefully to me, when I say on your face, you hit the Front leaning rest position and start doing pushups, when I say on your back, you flip onto your back and start doing set ups, when I say on your feet you regain your feet and continue running in place" Do you understand? Good! Ready, on your face, hup, ho, hup, ho, hup, ho, hup, ho. On your back, hup, ho, hup, ho, hup, ho, hup, ho. On your Feet. Hup,ho, hup, ho, hup, ho ---------------------- ON your Face---------------------on your back --------------------- on your face-------------------------------- on your feet ------------------------------ on your face----------------------------------, on your back --------------------------- on you face, ------------------------ on your feet--------------------------------- Halt. At Ease, I am going to give you a two minute break don't waste it by trying to talk to me or anyone else. After two minutes back to running in place then on your face. and so on. After about 10 minutes of this I would ask him if he would rather do this all day or go get after the job I sent him on in the first place.
Then I would ask Private Turd Bird if he has ever heard of the Grass Drill? It teaches instantaneous compliance with orders! Start by running in place. "Attention, in place forward march, hup, ho, your left, Right, At the double in place forward march, Hup, Ho, Left, Right" "Now while you are running listen carefully to me, when I say on your face, you hit the Front leaning rest position and start doing pushups, when I say on your back, you flip onto your back and start doing set ups, when I say on your feet you regain your feet and continue running in place" Do you understand? Good! Ready, on your face, hup, ho, hup, ho, hup, ho, hup, ho. On your back, hup, ho, hup, ho, hup, ho, hup, ho. On your Feet. Hup,ho, hup, ho, hup, ho ---------------------- ON your Face---------------------on your back --------------------- on your face-------------------------------- on your feet ------------------------------ on your face----------------------------------, on your back --------------------------- on you face, ------------------------ on your feet--------------------------------- Halt. At Ease, I am going to give you a two minute break don't waste it by trying to talk to me or anyone else. After two minutes back to running in place then on your face. and so on. After about 10 minutes of this I would ask him if he would rather do this all day or go get after the job I sent him on in the first place.
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I am at a total loss of words here. Who was doing what to who's chickens? "Here's the background. You're a senior E5." Okay but what is your position in the chain of command?
"Your troops are in formation and you're handing out work for the day." ASSUMPTION at this point your working as a Platoon Sgt.? If this part is true, Why are you talking to a E-2 directly at all? You would pass the assignments out by Squad to the Squad leader the squad leader picks the Soldier for the task. Other wise you have a total loss of the COC.
So as a Squad Leader "You hand out an assignment to a fresh E2 with less than a year in and only a few months at your command." So it is you and the Squad and the rest of the Platoon has moved on. I don't care if the PVT. Has two years as an E-2 this is not important at this point. I tag said PVT. with the task any refusal at this point is refusal for following a lawful order.
They blatantly complain and tell you to choose someone else. My statement Assistant Squad leader meet me with said Pvt after work call and we can discuss this, At that meeting anything Said PVT says and anything i say is a matter of record, noted by the Assistant Squad leader.
"You calmly tell them they will do this task and they tell you to shove it and give it to someone else." Now at this Point the PVT will have some education coming at my expense and pleasure. Everything from on the spot correction up to NJP. JMT
"Your troops are in formation and you're handing out work for the day." ASSUMPTION at this point your working as a Platoon Sgt.? If this part is true, Why are you talking to a E-2 directly at all? You would pass the assignments out by Squad to the Squad leader the squad leader picks the Soldier for the task. Other wise you have a total loss of the COC.
So as a Squad Leader "You hand out an assignment to a fresh E2 with less than a year in and only a few months at your command." So it is you and the Squad and the rest of the Platoon has moved on. I don't care if the PVT. Has two years as an E-2 this is not important at this point. I tag said PVT. with the task any refusal at this point is refusal for following a lawful order.
They blatantly complain and tell you to choose someone else. My statement Assistant Squad leader meet me with said Pvt after work call and we can discuss this, At that meeting anything Said PVT says and anything i say is a matter of record, noted by the Assistant Squad leader.
"You calmly tell them they will do this task and they tell you to shove it and give it to someone else." Now at this Point the PVT will have some education coming at my expense and pleasure. Everything from on the spot correction up to NJP. JMT
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If ur handing out assignments for the day then to me that is like giving them a Direct Order. I would ask them what rank they are and what rank I am. And Who out ranks who and who is in charge of doing this. If they come up with the right answer then I would tell them u were given a Direct order to do a job and u Will Do it and do it properly and in a timely manner or u will be having several LONG days and have class time as a refresher on Rank, What Orders Are and when given an order how u will react, period. And then given a test on it all that they better pass at 100%. The extra duty would be 2 wks long 1st time.
If it continues then I would give them an ART-15 if poss. and be restricted to barracks and extra details out the wahzoo and if they are married I would still want them in the Barracks. And then its time to get the whole team in some drill that they have to work together and work hard to complete and have a different one each day so the people he works with get tired of it and they put pressure on the kid messing up cause they know he is the reason for it. This would be a month long this time and after this I would be looking to put them down to a slick sleeve and they would be getting the dirtiest jobs every day for as long as in allowed and they would be given the min. time allowed to get cleaned up enough to eat and have a bag meals.
Hopefully this person or persons will fall in line and u do not have to do more.
If it continues then I would give them an ART-15 if poss. and be restricted to barracks and extra details out the wahzoo and if they are married I would still want them in the Barracks. And then its time to get the whole team in some drill that they have to work together and work hard to complete and have a different one each day so the people he works with get tired of it and they put pressure on the kid messing up cause they know he is the reason for it. This would be a month long this time and after this I would be looking to put them down to a slick sleeve and they would be getting the dirtiest jobs every day for as long as in allowed and they would be given the min. time allowed to get cleaned up enough to eat and have a bag meals.
Hopefully this person or persons will fall in line and u do not have to do more.
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E5 should take a course in "How to win friends and influence people" BULL SHI7 put E2 aSSS in front of the First Sarg and his squad. Lets see what happens E2's assss would not see any day light above the 6 x 5 x 8 grave that he'd be digging till next Sunday. Also, loss of a weekend pass and or PX privileges. MAKE an example of him for any future insubordinate issues with the E2 and the rest of troops. Dale Carnegie book was not for GI's East Texas old goat.
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Take up 3/4 of their Saturday police call the entire motor pool. Saturday Morning PT and Afternoon PT... Then PFC dirtbag does it again repeat until The Squad gets pissed and handles dirtbag
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First I was the senior E-5 petty officer in my command with 4 junior E-5 it was not easy . But with every person under my authority I found it beneficial to know their back story ,they were all good Men but each had a different driving force pushing them to do their job an duty . Understand the person an you will not have major problems.
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Look at all you so-called leaders acting like your word is god, sorry to tell you your word means jack sht and jack just left the building. All you wanna be hardasses talking about laying the smackdown via paperwork. So glad I don't have to work with egocentric pos. Quick to throw out paperwork or "if it was me" bullshit. Take that soldier to the side and smoke the living piss out of him and if he refuses then why bother start chapter paperwork.
look at all you S on your chest zeros acting all hard on the internet. some of yall sound like your spouse wears the pants in the family and since you can't chew her out you go to work and chew out someone thinking is your dependa. get rid of him plain and simple, now try to figure out what is wrong with the troop first see wtf is going on. don't give me this we have too many soldiers bs. It's garbage leadership toxic like you that ruin the military. "look at me" I'm sarnt so and so and I beat Chuck Norris so listen to me bs.
hem up the smart mouth pos troop simple, but if you think your cool chewing him out in front of your fellow NCOs to get cool points then you are a real pos blue falcon cheese dck. just send the troop packing drive him to the main gate and head back to you troops.
look at all you S on your chest zeros acting all hard on the internet. some of yall sound like your spouse wears the pants in the family and since you can't chew her out you go to work and chew out someone thinking is your dependa. get rid of him plain and simple, now try to figure out what is wrong with the troop first see wtf is going on. don't give me this we have too many soldiers bs. It's garbage leadership toxic like you that ruin the military. "look at me" I'm sarnt so and so and I beat Chuck Norris so listen to me bs.
hem up the smart mouth pos troop simple, but if you think your cool chewing him out in front of your fellow NCOs to get cool points then you are a real pos blue falcon cheese dck. just send the troop packing drive him to the main gate and head back to you troops.
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PV2 Paul Petty
What if E2 pulls this same S in the heat of conflict .. You stop it now and not on the ground of battle. Follow orders. As Col Jessups said or people die.
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Unfortunately, some people have to learn things the hard way. That was me at 19 years old, an E2 in the Army. I learned. Things might have gone easier for me if I had learned a little bit faster. There are ways to get one's attention that don't require putting him in front of the commander for an Article 15. When I was on active duty, there were a couple of terms like "motivational counseling" and "corrective training."
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Finish up the briefing, dismiss everyone else to their tasks and then correct the E2. After the correction, send them to complete the assignment
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Shitbird would be on every nasty cleaning detail in my command, plus his original Lawful order assignment. If he mouths further or slacks off he'd get additional lawful assignments that would etract from as much sleep time as allowed. After that the Brigg followed with circular file of his career.
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Give work assignment to the most influential squad member that didn't have an assignment. He will take care of his peer. Make a note of the situation. When PVT SB's
up for promotion kick him out under AR 635-200, General But Honorable Discharge.
Did this 100 times in my career.
up for promotion kick him out under AR 635-200, General But Honorable Discharge.
Did this 100 times in my career.
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Re-assign the duty to another squad member.
Make note of the situation.
When PVT SB's up for promotion to E3 give copies of your notes to Platoon SGT.
Make note of the situation.
When PVT SB's up for promotion to E3 give copies of your notes to Platoon SGT.
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Lol....There are several ways to handle this situation, I'm going to assume this the new generation of Soldiers. Once I release everyone that Soldier will standfast, it's obvious this Soldier is going through something and it's my job as a leader to find out. Once the issue is identified and some type of resolution is given. Then I would have a conversation with the Soldier anotating everything on a DA Form 4856 explaining where he/she went wrong and the consequences of his wrong doing. Once the dust clear he/she would no longer be a fresh E2 with less than a year in, he/she would be a newly demoted E1 with less than a year in.
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In the old days he would be picking himself up off the deck but this is the kindler, gentler military.
Before you beat me up for that view Google Chinese/Russian military training
Before you beat me up for that view Google Chinese/Russian military training
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There was a time when there was no question as to what to do.
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