Posted on Oct 16, 2016
How would you react to an E2 who "smart mouths" you in formation?
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Here's the background. You're a senior E5. Your troops are in formation and you're handing out work for the day. You hand out an assignment to a fresh E2 with less than a year in and only a few months at your command. They blatantly complain and tell you to choose someone else. You calmly tell them they will do this task and they tell you to shove it and give it to someone else. How do you react?
Military bearing
Discipline
Supervisor
Leadership
What Would You Do
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 3697
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Ummmmm....... There was no such answer as no! Are you kidding me? The military has become a joke if an E2 even thinks about saying no! I don't care what the crap happened at home or anywhere else! You do as told! If the E2 is having problems they should talk to someone. But to openly deny to do the job is insubordination! Smoke them. And if that doesn't work they don't need to be in the military. Somebody's life could be dependent on this E2 and they just can't be counted on!
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I’m a bit stunned by the comments made by some. Such blatant insubordination is beyond tolerable. If allowed it will render the unit incapable of fulfilling a mission where life and death are on the line. The private involved should be told he is under arrest and others ordered to keep him were directed until military police are present to jail him. The appropriate discipline would be a Special Courts Martial.
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SSG Bill McCoy
Respectfully, he cannot be "arrested;" not by an enlisted soldier/NCO. He can only be "apprehended," which, I know is almost pure semantics, but declaring him, "under arrest," can thwart a case. Besides, the Military Police would be very UNLIKELY to get involved based on the E-5's desires, and would consider it a UNIT problem. They certainly would not, "jail him."
All that aside, it's a PV2 and NOT what's termed a "seasoned soldier." Almost by their nature, young soldiers are ... what? Stupid? Naïve? Well, let's just say they're inexperienced and gullible to what barracks lawyers have told them. Finally, it's not a combat situation from what the narrative says, so it's really not that critical in a garrison situation. Verbal, and/or written counselling is the appropriate response and some extra duty.
All that aside, it's a PV2 and NOT what's termed a "seasoned soldier." Almost by their nature, young soldiers are ... what? Stupid? Naïve? Well, let's just say they're inexperienced and gullible to what barracks lawyers have told them. Finally, it's not a combat situation from what the narrative says, so it's really not that critical in a garrison situation. Verbal, and/or written counselling is the appropriate response and some extra duty.
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Lt Col Timothy Cassidy-Curtis
David, your comments are well taken. Your intent is valid and the actions you recommended are not unwarranted.
With all that said, I prefer to see if anything more could do to resolve the matter in favor of unit effectiveness. I recommend my comments, above.
With all that said, I prefer to see if anything more could do to resolve the matter in favor of unit effectiveness. I recommend my comments, above.
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I Know What I'd Do, But Here's MY Question;
What Was YOUR Response & What Did YOU Do.?
NO E-3 Should Be ALLOWED To Talk Like That To An E-5
And Even THINK "He Might Get Away With It"...
REGARDLESS Of ANY Excuse, What-So-Ever!!
What Was YOUR Response & What Did YOU Do.?
NO E-3 Should Be ALLOWED To Talk Like That To An E-5
And Even THINK "He Might Get Away With It"...
REGARDLESS Of ANY Excuse, What-So-Ever!!
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As a TSGT, I would immediately address the E2s shortcomings. As a naval officer, I would have my CPO address the problem.
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Some of these questions/situations posted here just make me scratch my head and say, you have got to be shitting me.
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Blanket party at 2am after having everyone else but said idiot soldier do one hundred pushups each while he doesn't and make it clear to them why they are being punished instead of him...today that's probably not an option...but in my day it was...
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I'd drop them in front leaning rest for the duration of the formation and then we would have a talk about what their problem is.
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All NCOs that are worth anything know that you have them stand fast after formation with a team leader or battle buddy. Then you use your comand voice and attempt to explain, without profanity, what there duty is. If it is a first offense, give them extra duty following the task originally chosen. After that, if it continues, you inform team leader that they need to get the soilder in line - if you are the team leader, after every one is away you calmly give them a chance to correct their attitude or smoke them. Ar 15, comes next and after that it is a crazy system that follows...
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He must have liked being an E-1. Presto. He’s an E-1 again. Perhaps he will acquire some self discipline. There’s always a 5 mile run just for fun before anyone else is out of their rack. There are lots of ways to make him see the error of his ways.
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By turning them into either a silent E-1 in formation or a loudmouth E-1 in their way to a discharge. Maybe come straight out with those options to them during a counseling seesion. Let them know next time those two options will become their reality.
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If that E2 doesn’t respect you as his Squad Leader, Section Leader, or Plt Sgt then there’s definitely something wrong, might he thinks he or she doesn’t need guidance or refuses to follow orders or directions, then write him up for insubordination and if that still doesn’t work, take him somewhere, where there’s no one around and have at it, then see if his attitude changes, that should be the last option, extra duty works also, a months worth’s, 7 days a week after work till 2300 hrs
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As an E-5, I've actually run into this. I pulled the PV2 aside, brought him to my first line so I'd have a witness, and smoked him (It was the first time the PV2 tried something like this). After, the PV2 then did the job and I followed up with an after action review. They didn't mouth off again after that.
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I would have the remaining troops in formation "standfast" and pull the insubordinate warrior offline. I would then ask the insubordinate warrior does he/she believe his/her fellow warriors have his/her back? I would then ask the insubordinate warrior does he/she think I have their back? No matter what his/her answer would be, I would put that insubordinate warrior in charge of that day's details and have him/her report to me once all tasks are complete. This junior warrior needs to learn loyalty and respect. If his fellow warriors are true to Army values, they will give him/her that.
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A lot of these comments make me happy I seperated in 2010.
That PVT would be in the front leaning rest position until the end of formation. Afterwards he/she would be doing front-back-go, picking cherries and putting them in the basket until I got tired.
That's how I learned as a Private.
One comment, Praise in Public and Punish in Private.... Our military is not what it was.
That PVT would be in the front leaning rest position until the end of formation. Afterwards he/she would be doing front-back-go, picking cherries and putting them in the basket until I got tired.
That's how I learned as a Private.
One comment, Praise in Public and Punish in Private.... Our military is not what it was.
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Nobody today is a draftee. They're all just volunteers who joined "for a job" and a sign up bribe. Maybe they've got a better job offer outside and want to terminate their contract?
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Half an hour of the dying cockroach and the section will STRONGLY encourage the young E2 in the error of his ways.
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That sounds like a sailor volunteering for every lousy detail/assignment that can be found for him/her.
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Hahahaha! You really don't want to know!!! It would offend your modern sensibilities. Keep telling yourselves the enemies are human...dumbasses.
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I'd Let Him Smart Off ONCE.....
He Can't Smart Off Twice
With A Broken Jaw While Getting
A Good Ass Kicking.
I'd Let Him Smart Off ONCE.....
He Can't Smart Off Twice
With A Broken Jaw While Getting
A Good Ass Kicking.
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After the appropriate ass chewing and dispatch to work comes phase II. Generally on my duty day when I'm not leaving the ship anyway, I catch the young lad at the brow just at liberty call. Thats when I discover a special task that requires only his special abilities and talents which will of course be completed BEFORE liberty commences. Generally such tasks take till about 0300. I note that on the few occasions in my career when such "training" has been required I've never had to repeat it, moreover I note that the rest of the division is enlightened as well...
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I would take them aside and remind them that this is not a democracy. You signed your name on the dotted line. You will do as you’re told or it can be handled through the UCMJ. There is a reason for discipline. I always had a reason for choosing who I gave a job to. Nobody can do the mission alone. It’s teamwork that makes it work
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I WOULD TELL THEM THANK-YOU, NOW I KNOW HOW YOU FELL ABOUT IT.
THEN I WOULD WRITE DOWN WHAT I TOLD THEM TO DO, PUT IT IN A SEALED PACK AND TELL THEM PLEASE TAKE THIS TO MY HIGH UP. O BY THE WAY, I WOULD STATE IN IT I WAS TOLD TO DO SOMETHING I DO NOT FELL I SHOULD NEED TO DO, I THINK YOU SHOULD DO THIS FOR ME.
THEN SET BACK AND LET THE FIRE FLY.
THEN I WOULD WRITE DOWN WHAT I TOLD THEM TO DO, PUT IT IN A SEALED PACK AND TELL THEM PLEASE TAKE THIS TO MY HIGH UP. O BY THE WAY, I WOULD STATE IN IT I WAS TOLD TO DO SOMETHING I DO NOT FELL I SHOULD NEED TO DO, I THINK YOU SHOULD DO THIS FOR ME.
THEN SET BACK AND LET THE FIRE FLY.
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Back in the day he'd be on shit barrel detail. If that didn't work he'd be walking point!
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His disrespect was public so his reprimand should be in public. Not only does it correct bad conduct, it serves as a warning to all others that you won't stand for any disrespect.
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