Posted on Jun 12, 2019
SPC(P) Medical Laboratory Specialist
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We have a new 1SG and new commander. The 1SG noticed one day that only 5 people in the whole company showed up to PT. Now he put out to all the platoon Sergeants that everyone must show up to PT at either the 0530 formation or the 1600 formation.

However, my section is the only one in the hospital that has a 1600-0000 shift. I am being told by my first line that the 1SG says that I have to be at the morning formation, no exceptions.

I don’t want to sound like I’m whining but at the same time it’s unfortunate that I have to explain to myself as to why this isn’t right.

As a junior enlisted I do feel stuck.

How do I bring this issue up and solve this effectively and professionally?
Also: Do you know of any Army Regulations that can support anything?
Edited 6 y ago
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SGT Craig Johnston
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The last I heard the Army was not a democracy. I’ve been out for some time now, 23 years to be exact. I hope it hasn’t changed. When I was in, it was a must that every soldier remained fit and disciplined. Is this not expected of each soldier today?
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CPO Manny Perez
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You are whining. Suck it up do your best. Someone will notice your effort!
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LCDR Aerospace Engineering Duty, Maintenance (AMDO and AMO)
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5 y
Chief, that's right up there with "this will look good on your eval." Those are words I learned not to believe as an MM2.
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PO2 Joseph Soto
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Sorry but you need to suck it up. Yes you are whining. 5 hours is a good day for me. Getting exercise is great for you while you are junior enlisted. Get in the exercise while you can still do it pain free.
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PO3 Douglas George
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It is a lawful order. Suck it up buttercup. Obey it.
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MSgt Lawrence Guidry
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You damn whoose, you stayed out late and now you pay the piper. No where does it say you can stay out late and be given the right to get your beauty rest.
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SFC Collection Manager
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You are working a swing shit, that mean you need to adjust your sleep patterns. After PT, shower and go to bed. It’s so easy a cave man can do it. Millions of people work swing shifts, welcome to the workforce
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SGM Gerald Fife
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Edited 5 y ago
I concur with the time management. Who knows, maybe that PT in the morning will let you sleep better. How about the rest of the 1600-2400 personnel. What do they do? Do they whine about the PT also? And this is about the PT and not the time frame.
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SFC Victor Serrano
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WTF!....
I remember going to the club on Wednesdays and getting back to the barracks at 0100 hrs. and be at PT formation at 0600 hrs. without a problem...LoL
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SFC Dr. Jesus Garcia-Arce, Psy.D
SFC Dr. Jesus Garcia-Arce, Psy.D
2 y
Yeap, if you 're younger and single
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CPT Special Forces Officer
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Do you really believe that war is on a schedule? The enemy will not allow you 8 hours of uninterrupted sleep. The initial 2003 push into Iraq was essentially 3 to 5 days of uninterrupted engagement with the enemy for conventional forces. I am still up at 0520 every day to voluntarily do what your 1SGT makes you do. Stop whining and get with the program.
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LCDR Aerospace Engineering Duty, Maintenance (AMDO and AMO)
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CPT (Join to see) - Considering I've made it farther in the armed forces that you have, I'm going to guess that I'm probably a better judge of that than you are. But thank you for your opinion. I'm sure you think it's worth something.
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CPT Special Forces Officer
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5 y
LCDR (Join to see) - Sir, You certainly have reached a higher rank than I have. Then again you probably weren't wounded as I was.
The Navy and the Army are very different organizations and attract different types of individuals. The Navy like the Air Force (not an insult) attract very intelligent and technical types (except for NSW ;). While the Army has its share of intelligent individuals we are the ones that need to march 20 miles plus in the rain or over the mountains conduct an ambush and then figure a way to get back out. We always have plans for the latter but more often than not the friction of war seems to catch up once you have made contact with the enemy.
I hope that you will forgive me for the snarky remark, you deserved better (I am not being insincere).
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LCDR Aerospace Engineering Duty, Maintenance (AMDO and AMO)
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CPT (Join to see) - No worries. We've all been there.

While I haven't been wounded in combat, do come at the situation with a mustang's perspective. I hit boot camp in July of 1994 and made it to E-6 before I sold my soul and went to the dark side. During that time, I've worked in steam plants and fought fires. I respect the need for "just do what I told you" as much as any other military leader (except for the Space Force).

That said, though, there's also a time and place for a Soldier to speak up for herself. The circumstance she was given were absurd. Doesn't mean she can't do them. But I question a leader who would tolerate that condition for a long period of time. As I said elsewhere, if I made a habit of bringing my guys in five hours after shift, every workday.. the CO would have me thrown out of his squadron without hesitation. That's what's happening with her - she's being told to do something that it would never occur to a leader to tell the bulk of the troops to do - again, not on occasion, but as her normal work schedule for months or years.

The correct answer, of course, is for her to do what she's told... but also speak to her chain of command. If her chain of command doesn't want the inconvenience of PTing her (and others like her) an hour before her shift, then they're making her shoulder the burden of their own laziness.

I also understand that when you're operational, you don't always get the sleep you want. I had the privilege of being the Detachment Maintenance Office (DETMO) for the helo squadron embarked aboard the USNS Comfort during hurricane Maria recovery in Puerto Rico. Neither my maintainers nor I got much sleep (and what sleep I did get, I cut into to hit the gym), but we knew that was part of the game. That said, though, it would have been absurd to ask them to hit 16-hour days back at homeguard without good reason (such as getting a detachment out the door).

That's the point I'm getting to. As leaders, we need to take care of our troops. Beat them when you need to - we're in the military after all. But when you can, you need to give them a break. Or as a chief once told me, there are enough bad deals in the Navy to go around - we don't need to go making our own.
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CPT Special Forces Officer
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SGT Jim Giffin
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So you get up at 0445 head to PT grab some chow afterwards and take a nap. Welcome to the Military Buttercup.
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SSG Pete Berkman
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Stop being a whiny little girl and do the PT without bitching. It’s good for you to learn to “Embrace the Suck”!!!
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SrA Tracy Douberley
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Edited 5 y ago
Seriously!? A soldier is a soldier 24/7. Suck it up or get out. Then you can sleep all day long w/o worrying about a thing.

You are a hot mess, my friend. Good luck with your endeavor.
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MSgt Brian Kaufman
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If you can't PT after 4-5 hours of sleep, the military is definitely not for you!
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1SG Brett Austin
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Having been in the medical side (91B, 91C, 91A, 91W) forever, the only groups excluded from morning PT were those that worked the actual night shift...getting off after 0700 hrs. Unfortunately, it's part of life (less sleep than we want)...whether military or civilian. I know most everyone have said it, but suck it up and push forward. I did catch that you are a E4(P)...you need to set the example. When/if you get to combat...you will NOT be sleeping as much as you do now. BUT, maybe make a suggestion for alternate PT times and even offer to lead it.
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1SG Marcus Whitfield
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You suck it up and drive on, you signed up for the U.S. Army not the Salvation Army. If you have work schedule conflicts, then you might have to do PT on your own, just make sure you can pass the PT when it comes due.
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LTC Brian Croteau
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If you don't get off work until midnight, a 0530 formation seems unreasonable, and a 1600 formation will likely make you late for shift. Talk to your hospital supervisor. Your first NCO in your chain of equal or higher rank than your 1SG, or an officer (nurse, Dr, administrator) equal or higher than your unit commander. Ask for a "report to the 1SG time" somewhere between 0900 and 1500. Earlier would be better because you could "sweeten the pot" with an offer to assist with
those ash-and-trash details that didn't get done early in the day.
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MSG Norman Carter
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First, follow orders.

Second, make a suggestion that your section do PT at a reasonable time (perhaps 1400 hrs, since you have to do at least 1 hour of PT and then shower and get to work by 1600). Your section SGT should be leading this. And be sure that the 1SG will be checking in on the section from time to time. It could help if the section SGT submitted a monthly PT plan/schedule that showed he/she knew what to do to keep the section physically fit.

Third, offer to lead section PT once a week- that will grow your leadership skills and get you out front doing something good. There are a ton of activities and exercises you can do to make this challenging, interesting, and productive. While Friday is usually a 5 mile run, Monday or Wednesday could be 30 mins of yoga and 30 mins of calisthenics (with music!).

Fourth, score 300 on the APFT. Do this while your young (it's easier). But this will also make your section look good at the company training meetings, and your company look good at battalion training meetings.

Fifth, initiative is always part of the solution.

Hope this helps.

MSG Carter
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SPC Brad M.
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I’ve never heard of anybody not showing up to PT formation because they were “tired” without getting severe corporal punishment, and maybe even a company grade Article 15. Especially as junior enlisted. But, I was 11B back in the early 90s, and that was how it went in pretty much every infantry unit in those days, I would guess.
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SCPO William Langston
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First of all, shut up! When you finish whining, shut up again! If you can accomplish that without whining about union rules or some other bullshit. Get up off your lazy and do exactly as your superiors have instructed you to do.

It ain’t Burger King and you don’t get it your way.

I sure hope this helps!!

You’re welcome!

Cheers,
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MAJ John Douglas
MAJ John Douglas
5 y
And this answer is why we have NCOs!
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LCDR Aerospace Engineering Duty, Maintenance (AMDO and AMO)
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5 y
Not a big fan of taking care of your Sailors, eh Senior?
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LTC George Morgan
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Resolve it by completing the order and then work toward being a 1st Sgt.
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LTC George Morgan
LTC George Morgan
5 y
You're a soldier now, so Man-up. Don't tell me I don't understand the Medical Life, I was an Operating Room Supervisor for 42 years out of a 48 year career and never missed a PT requirement!
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