Posted on Jun 12, 2019
SPC(P) Medical Laboratory Specialist
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We have a new 1SG and new commander. The 1SG noticed one day that only 5 people in the whole company showed up to PT. Now he put out to all the platoon Sergeants that everyone must show up to PT at either the 0530 formation or the 1600 formation.

However, my section is the only one in the hospital that has a 1600-0000 shift. I am being told by my first line that the 1SG says that I have to be at the morning formation, no exceptions.

I don’t want to sound like I’m whining but at the same time it’s unfortunate that I have to explain to myself as to why this isn’t right.

As a junior enlisted I do feel stuck.

How do I bring this issue up and solve this effectively and professionally?
Also: Do you know of any Army Regulations that can support anything?
Edited 6 y ago
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SPC William Wilson
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Gotta man up, your not in the girls scouts.
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PO1 John Johnson
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Welcome to the Military, where Men and Women who came before you in hostile situations or not, endeavored to persevere and succeeded. I suggest you do the same and drop the 'woe is me" line of BS. Either that or find a new line of work.
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SFC William Linnell
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How to address this? There is the old starter line of back in my dad but the Army seems to be more soft in the past 10 years. Soldiers have been accomplishing the task of doing shift work with less slept. Sure they bitch at times. You find ways that work for you. You mentioned new 1SG and CO. They are assessing the company Soldiers and how they perform. Don't worry about what reg covers what to make whatever appeal makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside. You work in a Hospital. Your not in the elements sucking it up so be grateful. You could still be working after PT up till your shift to work in the hospital. Which you left out of your explanation. After PT is over are you able to go back to your room and sleep or do you have to go to work say..in the motorpool?? If not the motorpool and you can go back to your room...why are you bitching?? Ideally its a preferred option that a Soldier works an 8 hr shift with 16 hrs off. But that isn't always achieved. Plus taking naps when you can it very helpful. Physical fitness is mostly your responsibility to stay in shape. 1SG is just making sure it's accomplished and things should even out once they get adjusted. Your PSG's, SFC's, should be briefing the 1SG about this and not be YES men. Good luck. I came off CQ and 1SG had me listed for Guard Duty that day. He wouldn't change it even though my PSG made him aware of it. So I went to Guard mount, took Demand and had that day off and they next. So win win. :) You'll be ok SPC. Nothing but a thing that you can't handle.
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Cpl Gregory Gordon
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Coming from a former Marine grunt who now works as a nurse, it's the military, you do what the command says. Do your job, go to pt, catch some close eye when you can, and remember, chow is continuous. Meaning, mission orders come first. Second, when you have downtime, it is your responsibility to catch adequate rest - it may not be your ideal or preferred time but thats life in the service. Lastly, the ideal that chow is continuous meaning you wont always have time for a sit down meal and may need to eat duting small breaks during the day.

As a nurse currently, if youre arguing that you cant set up an iv pump minimal sleep, thats one of the simplest tasks. If youre fatigued or tired, double and triple check your work, dont rush it. Triple check med orders before administering- should be common practice anyways.

Lastly, feel free to grumble and complain with your fellow junior enlisted, seeks a right of passage so to speak. Us grunts were almost always disgruntled about something or another. It builds bonds and camaraderie. Best of luck to you.
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SSgt James Mathews
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I can not believe this. This person should have taken basic at Ft Knox in the winter of 59, I did. I wonder if he had to crawl through the tank tracks in the mud. I could write a book a foot thick on what is now called abuse. I have nothing to say but good about my experience in the Army and later four years in the Air Force
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PO2 Joseph Fast
PO2 Joseph Fast
5 y
She*. Also, she has a job as a nurse, she isn't in boot.
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CMSgt John Owens
CMSgt John Owens
>1 y
PO2 Joseph Fast - I don't think the army has Nurses in the Jr enlisted positions. I know the AF does not.. No one's life depends on an enlisted in a hospital in the AF, now we did have paramedics, that were enlisted. But they transported to the Hospital. After the person was in the ER, then the Officers (Nurse and Docs) too over.
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SPC(P) Retired Police Captain/Division Commander
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You just need to suck it up Soldier and go to PT at 0530 as ordered to do. If nobody else is willing to be blunt and honest with you, I will. You are in the United States Army Soldier, you are no longer a civilian! Yes, you are whining Specialist! When I was stationed in Germany at Robinson Barracks I worked 12 hour shifts as a Military Policeman from 1800 hrs to 0600 hrs, showed up for PT formation at 0600 hrs as ordered and then turned around at 0800 hrs and took college classes on my days off that were 8 hours a day for 2 days a week at the Education Center from 0800 to 1700 hours, with 1 hour off for lunch break from class. I ate lunch and then laid down for a nap to get me through it. I did that for a full year until I was promoted and went into an Admin job working 8 hours a day with weekends off at the Provost Marshal Office Operations. Embrace The Suck! It can be done. It is only temporary. If it is too much for you, then maybe you should consider getting out of the US Army. Otherwise, suck it up and go to PT as scheduled.
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PO2 Joseph Fast
PO2 Joseph Fast
5 y
Now imagine if your PT had been scheduled at 1100. You're welcome. It was obvious you didn't understand the problem by what you typed up. For her schedule, her PT would have been in the middle of your class time, thus ensuring she couldn't do it.
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CMSgt John Owens
CMSgt John Owens
>1 y
PO2 Joseph Fast - I don't agree with your statements.. She has a choice, get 4.5 or 5 hrs of sleep in between getting off work, then go to PT. Then come back and sleep till she has to get up for work.. She has alot more than 8 hrs to sleep, it is just not a t one time.. I guarantee lots of Medical Civilian personnel get a lot less opportunity to sleep,. My wife is a Paramedic, she works 48 hrs on the 72 hrs off, during the 48 she may get an hr or so here then go 12 to 20 more and get a couple hrs again.. They are short manned and she gets extra hrs every week.. If she things she is bad in the Army in Medical and chooses this as a career, then she will get alot less time for sleep as a civilian.
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PO2 Joseph Fast
PO2 Joseph Fast
>1 y
CMSgt John Owens - All you still miss the most important part of this whole thing. As military, we don't spend our entire lives deployed. I've spent 2 years straight deployed with no break, but eventually we get a break. Also, when we go to work, we expect to drive into work once a day. Not twice a day. If a civilian big whig ever told me I have to drive into work twice a day, once just to do something at "some exact time" that I could EASILY accomplish at another time while saving myself fuel so that I don't have to drive in twice a day. I would attempt to talk to the person into reason. If they didn't listen, I would tell them to kiss my rear. The military didn't retain me because I dealt with too many people who just don't realize you can't abuse people with night shift their entire career while expecting them to keep up with daily day shift non-sense that other departments didn't stick on their night shift. Why? Because morale is important and other departments knew that. We shouldn't hurt each other simply because the majority of us have only a double digit IQ and we run around saying "zug zug" non stop. A true leader knows how to fix a problem that works for everyone. A mindless brute knows how to say "suck it up buttercup" without even looking into the issue or how the person has been dealing with the issue.
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CMSgt John Owens
CMSgt John Owens
>1 y
No, we understand the point... Let me save you alot of problems in and out of the Military. Your supervisors are Not your friend, you are a number to your Employer.. You might have a good supervisor that goes to bat for you, but very unlikely.. Remember most people in the military will not or can not make it in civilian life.. The best get out after 1st term and get high paying jobs and only have to worry about 8 or 10 hrs a day at work.. At the end of the Day, You Volunteered, if you dont like it, get out..
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SGT Daniel Durkovich
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Don't know how it is now but the regs used to say 4 hours was the minimum. So check the regs
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LTC G 3
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>1 y
New regs have been published this year and acknowledge we have been doing it wrong. There has been and extensive and ongoing human performance study to determine actual sleep needs. The findings clearly pointed to lack of sleep as the leading cause of Class A accidents, Errors during medical procedures and failure to perform. This is not about being soft. It is about learning how to plan work rest cycles to get more performance out of the machine.
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TSgt John Brody
TSgt John Brody
>1 y
...and that task falls on leadership, which has clearly FAILED in this case. I wish more service members understood what you just wrote LTC Jody. Too many hard cases sounding off in here and not understanding the advances that have been regarding HUMAN performance.
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LCDR Aerospace Engineering Duty, Maintenance (AMDO and AMO)
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>1 y
LTC (Join to see) - LTC, we can also point to the surface fleet's problems, for which sleep deprivation has been cited as a major contributing factor.

We have lessons from the past, but we often refuse to learn them when they conflict with "it's always been this way." It seems a lot of the "suck it up" crowd, here, seems more interested in inflating their own egos and reliving their glory days than mentoring and helping to improve things.
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SGT Jody Beach
SGT Jody Beach
>1 y
LTC (Join to see) - Did that study include bullets flying at you or was it just done back on the home base?
Another study was done that showed that politicians and commanders get us into conflicts we have no business being in. This type of behavior has lead to the deaths of countless amounts of soldiers.
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SMSgt Bob W.
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Can you change your hours to 1700 to 0100? It appears that upper management [ie, the CO] needs to change the time people report to work based on the PT schedule. This isn't rocket science; however, it sounds like ego and I'm in-charge attitude.
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1SG(P) Dean Mcbride (MPER) (SPHR)
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How do you bring this issue up and solve this effectively and professionally? You make the PT formation at 0530 - do your PT and go back to bed!
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I'd recommend working with/through your 1st line supervisor and seeking a compromise. Above all do the work to maximize your personal PT test score. A solid record gives you more leverage.

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