Posted on Feb 2, 2017
SGT PATRIOT Fire Control Enhanced Operator/Maintainer
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I have heard stories of people bringing personal ar15 uppers for use in Iraq and Afghanistan, but have seen no proof that this is allowed. Where could I find the answer or does anyone have an answer for this, its not technically a "modification" to the weapon itself.
Edited 9 y ago
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SGM Erik Marquez
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Edited 9 y ago
No,. not even a little bit allowed.
Done, sure Im sure it has been.

I know of a SGT that took a side arm to a little conflict in Panama once...but authorized it was not...and having to ask your Regimental commander to hand carry it back as he was the only one that was not searched by customs was not a fun request to be made....it was later taken in stride and understood why, with no lasting negative ramifications,,,but that was luck of circumstances...said SGT very well could have been Court Marshaled, demoted and received a BCD instead of having a long and fulfilling service .
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MSgt George Cater
MSgt George Cater
9 y
Peacetime in the 70's at Camp Lejuene, but it reminds me of another factual situation. I knew a 03 Captain on the Pistol Team who when he had a rifle company in 2nd MarDiv, always carried 1 or more mags of live ammo for his pistol when his company went to the field for tac ops. His logic was that since anyone can drive into many of Lejuene's training areas right from the off base roads, he was not going to have a couple of armed good ole boys in a pickup drive up and make off with 100+ M-16s, 27 M-249s, 6 M-60s, 19 M-9s, plus 203s, SMAWs & 60mm mortars, radios, NVGs, etc. He said he'd much rather be court martialed for defending his Marines and the government property than for losing their weapons. (I agreed. It always amazed me how vulnerable things were in non-live fire areas at CLNC.)

SGM Erik Marquez - CWO3 (Join to see)
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GySgt Melissa Gravila SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL
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CPT Jack Durish
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SGM Erik Marquez
SGM Erik Marquez
9 y
LTC (Join to see) - "I know exactly what you mean...I made many a decision as a young NCO that when I look back on them now I am either like, "Damn, what was I thinking?" or "Damn, I was lucky!" In all reality is usually a combo of both, but in the end it all worked out all right, and if nothing else those decisions served as great learning experiences!"

Sir I mostly credit my Senior NCOs and the officers in my chain of command who were wise enough to see the "good" in what I had done in those serious situations, and help me understand why it was not the better choice..vice just punishing because they could.
What they created, was someone that grew up to be able to do the same...

Yes I "Verbally assaulted" more then a few when they were caught doing something stupid...... But that and why it was dumb, and what would have been a better choice were always included, and then it was over.
a GO once told me, "Get mad, let them know why and what right looks like then get over it. Son, what they do Next time is what matters"
I spent a lot of years truing to emulate that.. I wont say I got it right each and every time... There was the SM that hit his son and broke his arm... I only got the "Get Mad" part on that one.... There was the SM that falsely accused her spouse of child molestation in effort to draw attention away from his testimony she was a thief, adulterer and habitual lier .. I may have missed the "get over it part" on that one as well.
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GySgt Melissa Gravila
GySgt Melissa Gravila
9 y
SGM Erik Marquez - a lot of times its a ask for forgiveness instead of permission sort of thing. IMO it's the sign of a leader to know when to yank the chain and when to pull out the pen.js
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SGM Erik Marquez
SGM Erik Marquez
9 y
GySgt Melissa Gravila - Gunny, it is for sure, it is an unfortunate fact of life it takes lots experience to learn that, and that by definition means junior NCO's and Officers screw it up.. With luck there is a more experienced NCO or officer on hand to take the Junior one aside and explain why the sky is not really falling, no one died, let them learn from it. I got lucky and had that... ate crow, went back, worked though what "they" learned, and moved on.
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SGM Mikel Dawson
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What part of no isn't understood? You're issued a weapon, got a problem with it, you got an armor, you know that dud who knows the ins and outs of said weapon. Deal with it.
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MSG Mark Million
MSG Mark Million
9 y
Good Idea.
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MSG Mark Million
MSG Mark Million
9 y
SGM Erik Marquez - I will do that, Thank You SGM.
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MSG Mark Million
MSG Mark Million
9 y
SGT Tim Soyars - I will take yours and SGM's advice.
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SGM Mikel Dawson
SGM Mikel Dawson
9 y
And this is why we got Rally Point - to help each other out with the knowledge we got
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GySgt Bill Smith
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Edited 9 y ago
Is the upper a brand that the government contracts with already? Where are you going to secure your issued upper? Have you spoken to your PS or PL about it. Would it improve your mission capabilities? Or is this just an attempt to be an operator operating operationally?
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1px xxx
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9 y
Nice alliteration!
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Is an AR-15 upper receiver authorized while on deployment?
LTC Chemical, Biological, Radiological & Nuclear Officer
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I am not familiar with the exact regulation on this subject, however, I would not recommend bringing and using such items during a deployment.

But, as a gun-guy myself, I do completely understand the desire to do so. As a leader, my biggest concern would be that opening such a door would lead to every Joe Snuffy bringing in wild modifications that could possibly be unsafe or unreliable. I am sure that most everyone here knows enough about basic rifle functions where this wouldn't be a problem, but there is always that one guy who would ruin it for everyone.

I recall an issue in Iraq where one of our Soldiers tried to replace the pistol grip to his rifle, not realizing that the safety selector spring and detent were held in place by it. Luckily our armorer was able to fix his modification for him.
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GySgt Bill Smith
GySgt Bill Smith
9 y
Great example Sir.
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CPO Steelworker
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Edited 9 y ago
I don't know how the Army does it but I know Marines and Navy have what is called a weapons card that you turn in every time you check weapons out. The Card states you will not do any modifications too your weapons with out the Armors or weapons officers permission.

I will also say MISPEC is the big thing.
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CWO3 Retired
CWO3 (Join to see)
9 y
CPO Wheeler, that's how we do it in the Marine Corps and as for the use of an illegal weapon whether it be a rifle, pistol, knife, bayonet or whatever is not on the T/E for weapons is not authorized period. Good discussions though and personal opinions.
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SGT David T.
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It violates AR 750-10 "No modification is authorized for an application unless it has an approved MWO number. Commanders will not allow their equipment to be modified unless there is an official MWO.".

It does meet the definition under the regulation as a modification which is defined as "Modification is any alteration, conversion, or modernization of an end item or a component of end item (COEI), which in any way changes or improves the original purpose or operational capacity in relation to effectiveness, efficiency, reliability, or safety of that item. This includes, but is not limited to: conversions; field fixes; retrofits; rebuilds; redesigns; upgrades; extended service programs; engineering changes; software revisions; system enhancement programs; service life extension programs; system improvement programs; product improvement programs; preplanned product improvements; modifications developed and applied by contractors as part of prime vendor support
or contractor logistics support (CLS) agreements; horizontal technology integration; continuous technology refreshments (CTRs); technology insertions; and all other terms used to describe modifications as defined above."

At the ranges in which you are able to positively identify a legitimate target, the accuracy of the M16/M4 series is fine. So there isn't a need for greater accuracy for the average Soldier. A Designated Marksman is a different story, but they have different rifles for that role.
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1SG Al Brown
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Like everyone and the regs are saying, no is the answer. Soldiers who are not well supervised do it, and there is no upside when it goes wrong. I've seen 100 rd circular drum magazines in M4's that were full of dirt from a lack of cleaning. My head exploded so violently that there were chunks of Soldier ass parts strewn everywhere. The weapon(s) looked cool, but were going to fail miserably when they really, really needed it to work. We all know what happens next.
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CPO Steelworker
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9 y
Yep, Engineers will always find a way to do things the way they want.

"ESSAYONS" From Navy "Can Do" I loved working with you guy's
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1SG Al Brown
1SG Al Brown
9 y
My cousin was a Vietnam Vet Seabee and I am an old Sapper. Our wives won't even stay in the same room with us when we visit.
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MSG Intermediate Care Technician
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If there is ANY piece of the weapon that is personally owned and not government issued, that is not authorized. I had a briefing on this when I deployed, but I can't remember the regulation or ALARACT, so I would contact your OPS NCO at your unit or at your BN. They can certainly clear this up and provide the document
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SGT PATRIOT Fire Control Enhanced Operator/Maintainer
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As an additional question; if I have an ACOG (identical to the army issued one) but a unit only has the aimpoint cco available, am I able to use that instead? Seeing as all marksmanship principles lead to "shooter's preference"?
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SSG Tom Pike
SSG Tom Pike
9 y
See my post below about optics.
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LTC Stephen F.
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I thought that this discussion was about the AR-15 5.56mm rifle SGT (Join to see)
In times past certain units or individuals were given amphetamines for certain type of operations.
Of course individuals have illegally used amphetamines at times. This individual type of illegal use would never be "allowed."
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SGT PATRIOT Fire Control Enhanced Operator/Maintainer
SGT (Join to see)
9 y
yes, it is in reference to 5.56 ar15 uppers, I didn't even think of the other use for the term "upper" until this post.
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LTC Stephen F.
LTC Stephen F.
9 y
SGT (Join to see) - thanks for letting me know. I had never heard of 5.56 ar15 uppers before.
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