Posted on Feb 22, 2018
LCpl Timothy McCain
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After the shooting in Florida many people began to say arm the teachers. But they over look that a police officer was there. As a Marine I understand how difficult it is to close on and take an active shooter even with the best training and equipment. During the Dallas shooting 11 police officers was injured and another 6 was killed. Out of all the return fire none actually hit the suspect. Infact the suspect was killed by a remote control robot carrying an explosive. The reason why the suspect wasn't killed by a well aimed handgun shot is because of what we call the fog of war. When the shooting starts panic and confusion set in and the way we deal with it in the military is continually to train for those situations week in and week out. But without a third of the training people are expecting teachers to be able to identify the location of the shooter, know the movement of other armed teachers, know the movement of the innocent students and staff, close on the shooter and fire a well aimed shot without putting any students in further danger. Is that realistic?
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CW5 John M.
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Edited >1 y ago
More realistic than if none of the good guys had anything to defend themselves with - other than “whimpers”..... If anything, it gives the shooter “pause”, perhaps to duck for cover, or - since so many are cowards - perhaps give them pause to consider going to a known “gun-free zone. It can buy time until the real serious help arrives.....
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LTC Jeff Shearer
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Tim I could not agree more about the fact that a pistol v an assault rife is a bit of a bear. However, it is very doable. Dont get me wrong I had much rather have a team of door kicking SF ninjas with M4s etc... However, I am going to be honest, if all I had was my 5 shot 2" smith concealed carry revolver I would head toward the fight. Yes this could be my last fight but what the fuck that is what I was put on earth to do. That sorry sack a cat shit is killing our kids got to go.

Now to address the obvious; you are way out gunned but that is why you have got to be trained. I am not saying that will keep you from getting killed but it will distract jackass from killing kids. I don't want to die, and promise those terrified kids do not want to die, if all I had was a pistol you are damn right I would go.

To address putting steel on target when bullets are wizzing by, its training, training, training. I agree is a sad day when we eve discuss teachers with guns, they are educators not killers. However, a part of them is a sheepdog, they protect those in trusted in their care. I don't have all the answers but I have some. One of the first things is we need to know why but we never need to openly discuss the shooter is bad because of society or his crazy mom or whatever. At that point in time he is a threat, aka a wolf, the immediate answer is to locate and stop the threat. That is done simply by killing the jackass. Tim I would much prefer a shotgun or M4 if was in that situation however, if all I had was my 2" 5 shot smith I would run to the fire. Yes i would be terrified but those are out kids.
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SSG Senior Desk Sergeant / Operations Sergeant
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I don't think so. Not all though, there are plenty who would pick up that weapons and not be afraid to use it...I think that's my answer there, a lot of teachers may learn to shoot it but when it comes to actually pointing it a person, even in defense, they might be too afraid to pull that trigger when necessary.
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SSG Edward Tilton
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Get a Mini-gun
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SPC Training Room Nco
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Personally, I don't say "Arm The Teachers." Ya know all those able-bodied veterans that are having trouble finding jobs? Here's a thought; arm them and allocate a budget from the State to pay them to guard the schools. They have the training, they have the tactical understanding of such scenarios (a refresher course with law enforcement and/or SWAT teams would also help), and this provides more jobs and capable personnel to re-enter the workforce. And let's be honest here; 99% of them will never fire a shot in defense of a school. However, they will still act as roving guards to protect and safeguard the future of this nation (i.e., our children). I agree that the teachers may not be the best choice, but I absolutely believe that vets are a great one. Not to mention, I think it may also help to enforce a more positive outlook on the military (we aren't always seen in the best light lately, thanks to leftist media), by having capable veterans being responsible for the safety and welfare of our children. Because then, quite literally, our own veterans would be safeguarding the future of the United States, both home and abroad. I think a lot of people have lost sight of that concept.

*Admin note* yes, mental health screenings and background checks would need to be mandated prior to hiring ANYONE to become an armed guard for a school full of children.
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SSgt Christopher Brose
SSgt Christopher Brose
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I don't say "Arm the teachers" either. I am careful to say "Allow teachers to be armed" because saying it the other way implies giving guns to people who don't want to have them.
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SSgt GG-15 RET Jim Lint
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MSG Chuck Pewsey We talk about the over publication of these events...and guess what, you will see more copy cats will pick up the idea. SGT (Join to see) You are right about our evolution of the last 40 years, but also add that in minute everyone in USA knows about it. Tell me that does not give the broken family, low morality grown people into Copy Cats. Who wants to bet against me that their will be copy cats following this school shooting? (I live in Las Vegas, and only bet on positive wins, or I would be on welfare!)
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SSG Antoinette Azevedo Toscano
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LCpl Timothy McCain, great question. I agree, it will be nearly impossible for a teacher to stop an active shooter for all of the reasons that you mentioned and because we don't make decisions as quickly or as well as we think we do. Read Malcom Gladwell's book 'Blink' for more on how faulty we humans are at making good decisions quickly and under stressful circumstances.
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SSgt Christopher Brose
SSgt Christopher Brose
>1 y
That's why it's important to practice and train, and run through the decision-making process in your mind before you ever find yourself in that situation. But even without the training, I'm pretty sure that in an active shooter situation, a lot of teachers would rather have a gun than not.
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TSgt David L.
TSgt David L.
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SSgt Christopher Brose - SSG Antoinette Azevedo Toscano Not everyone is cut out to be a shooter. Clearly. Not everyone is cut out to be in the military, or be a teacher either. You never know until you try. My wife grew up with guns but outside of trap and skeet didn't actually shoot much. The best part is that she had no bad habits like shooters bring to the table. From a training standpoint it is easier to impart knowledge than reteach someone with bad habits. She is an excellent shot. Surprisingly good. She happens to have worked in the public school system for nearly 15 years. She would be happy to save a child's life.

No matter what, most folks don't know what they are or aren't capable of without being tested. Training is the only way to know until the real event goes down. Don't sell folks short until they have a chance. Without volunteering and training you never know what someone CAN do to save a human life.
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SSG Antoinette Azevedo Toscano
SSG Antoinette Azevedo Toscano
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Fair point.
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SSG Antoinette Azevedo Toscano
SSG Antoinette Azevedo Toscano
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I want to add that the question is not if teachers will or can protect the students, it’s is asking if it is realistic to think a teacher can protect a student using a handgun against an AR-15. Yes, some people can do heroic things in this circumstance and many will try because they want to protect the children. My concern is twofold. Will teachers accidentally shoot other teachers and students, unintentionally? And, why not work on solving the problem— stopping someone before becoming an active shooter.
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PFC Patrick States
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There is no correct answer to this. Yes they could, if the circumstances are right. Are they fairly close, do they have an unobstructed view and a clear shot? Is the shooter looking at them? If the situation is wrong, they could make matters worse. Personally, I would prefer that they have the opportunity to effectively fight back as opposed to hiding under a desk and hope that the shooter doesn't find them before the police arrive and actually engage the shooter.
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SSgt Christopher Brose
SSgt Christopher Brose
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If there's an active shooter on campus, the situation is already wrong.
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PO3 John Wagner
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LTJG Richard Bruce
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The type of weapon is irrelevant. The projectile is what hurts. Real life is not TV where a cowboy on a fast moving horse shoots an Indian at a good distance also moving on a fast horse. Besides range training, those who carry a sidearm must undergo judgement shooting exercises under stress. As others have said, it's the deterrence that will prevent most crime.
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1SG Dennis Hicks
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To answer your question YES, to defend no, to shoot the attacker in the head while he has tunnel vision yes.
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