Posted on Feb 20, 2016
My local VFW has turned into more of a bar for non-veterans than a fraternal organization. Anyone else experience this?
35.9K
212
140
18
18
0
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 71
After reading the comments below, I will say this. The CANTEEN (bar) is exactly that... a bar, no different than any other bar except the drinks are cheaper. If you want to be involved in helping veterans you are not going to do it from a barstool... go to the meetings, post, district and state level. That is where the good is done, the bar just creates revenue so we can do all the good things we are supposed to do
(22)
(0)
SPC Andy Rowe
SPC Andy Rowe - I should also reiterate that this is a very small post maybe 10 -15 tops at meetings
(2)
(0)
SGM Maurice Risley
I think what is being missed is the Canteen is one of the many ways that posts struggle to raise funds. These are the funds that are used for community contributions. Just yesterday between the Auxiliary and Post we distributed close to 2K to fund a JROTC unit to participate in a National compaction and another 1K for Post maintenance. To answer the Soldiers question, it has become very difficult to get Veterans to support the Canteen so creative means are made to keep the Canteen running. Hence keeping the Post alive. While attending post meetings pay close attention to the Quartermasters financial report and you will understand where these funds are coming from. As a Challenge, get involved and provide creative ideas to help your Post thrive. The Canteen is not just a Bar, it’s the life blood of almost every VFW Post
(1)
(0)
PO2 Michael Galey
SPC Andy Rowe - As it has be said the Canteen isn't a part of the VFW save for fund raising. Also there are many Veterans that haven't served in combat but are now designated as veterans eg. Cold War Veteran, Global War on Terrorism etc. Any time some one has served is now considered a veteran which causes real heartburn with the combat vets as for your post try to recruit the newest veterans.
(2)
(0)
For all of you that don't like your VFW club and for all of you that deride the VFW, I have one thing to say to you...FIX IT...as a member or potential member, you have it in your power to make the VFW better. Sitting on your butt and complaining is not going to change anything. YOU, each individual, are the one that can change things. Whining and running down the VFW and the clubs is defeatist, something I would never acknowledge, accept or suspect from those in the Military...I am a proud member of the VFW and our local club was closed by the state Commander for some of the reasons mentioned...WE, the Members took BACK our club and I brought ACTIVE members becoming involved have turned the corner and are bringing our club back to something to be proud of!
(14)
(0)
PV2 Kenneth Booth
With all due respect MSgt, on the 4 to 5 times I have visited the local VFW (2 were Hollidays) I have met 3 Vietnam era Vets. The roster says there are over 100 members. After speaking to these guys at length the sitrep was no one ever shows up. Even for special occasions, so the place has turned into just another local bar with a fancy sign. I'd be happy to make an attempt at taking the place back and even recruitment of new members, but no one seems to be that interested. I will take your advice and run with it. Wish me luck.
(6)
(0)
MSgt Raymond Hickey
PV2 Booth, adopt the Marine attitude...adapt and overcome...You are the instrument of change, remember and live that, if you give it your all, luck will not be a factor, when an obstacle rises up, overcome it. Remember, one small step at a time, change will not be instantaneous, it may take time, but you have been trained to overcome and to never give up the fight.
(5)
(0)
SGM Maurice Risley
Very sound words MSgt Hickey. It's up to be the local Veterans to take ownership and improve their surroundings. There are outreach programs you may have many members that can't drive. Attend recruiting drives and talk with other Veterans that will be willing to participate.
(2)
(0)
SSG Raymond A.
I'm not whining. I simply don't care to join up with an organization that sucks up to the VA rather than fights to fix it. I traveled to go to the VFW sponsored meetings in Kansas City when all hell was breaking over the many VA issues and the VFW brass was more about playing politicians than getting anything positive done to change decades of bureaucratic crap that has harmed all too many vets. I don't want or need another vets organization that really has no passion about real veteran issues. If you like the VFW then have fun. Just don't label me because I'm not buying what they are selling.
(1)
(0)
I also thought the same about the American Legion I joined. So I decided to get involved. I became a board member and started to encourage other military friends to get involved. Within a few years we were able to start to make a difference. It's been over 10 years now. We have a more family oriented atmosphere but you will never be able to get rid of all the bar feel. Unfortunately that's the bill payer. But remember getting involved will help build a better experience for all. Start discussions with others about their experiences in the military and encourage change and with time hopefully it will. Good luck to you in keeping the old tradition going.
(10)
(0)
I am the Quartermaster at my VFW and also in my district. I took over the position about 3 years ago now at a time when my post was probably going to lose its charter. Since then I have started to turn things around trying to recruit younger more involved membership, getting involved in the community service programs that the VFW is about. Having events for Memorial Day Veterans Day, trying to get people out there to March, and I here this same argument from some of them and it pisses me off. Unfortunately the non-vets pay our bills. I can't get a member to help me shovel a walkway in the winter let alone sell poppies or review student essays. My last CO used to have a policy you could come to him with any complaint however you had to offer one possible solution otherwise he didn't want to hear it. It is also a mantra I've heard over and over in the civilian sector. If you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem. If young involved veterans do not get involved it will never change and it will cease to exist and when that happens who will be the watchdog lobbying congress when they are gutting your benefits? One or two motivated individuals can change a post. If you don't like the way its run get a copy of the By Laws Go to the Meetings, Post, District and State Level. If the by-laws are not being followed bring it up the chain and make it happen.
(8)
(0)
SFC Jim Ruether
Excellent response Corporal Freitas. The complainers need to take another look, get involved and makes some changes! Hoorah!
(2)
(0)
I have been a lifetime member of both the VFW and American Legion for About 25 years now. I don't attend their meetings. Last time I did was just shortly after joining. It seems to me that both organizations spend more time and resources trying to find ways to keep their bars afloat than they do with veterans issues. I'm still trying to get the smell of cigarette smoke of of my clothing. Sorry but I think both have lost thier identity. Perhaps the next generation of veterans can fix it. Don't get me wrong. This is not a total slam Could a new national level veterans organization be formed in these days without a bar? As a last note, our Legion post finally ended up selling the bar after loosing money. Now they have more time for veterans issues.
(7)
(0)
SGM Joel Cook
Hey Bruce, long time no see. My VFW is about the same. I remain a member for 10 years, to support the organization and Vets, but I seldom attend because it is just a big drinking party and that's not me. I tried to join the honors guard squad to do veterans funerals but it was full up so I only attend occasionally.
(0)
(0)
MSG Bruce Bjorklund
Hey Joel, I was just thinking about you recently. What timing. Where are you living? We're still up here in Minnesota. A flatlander as I recall you referred to me. I retired last April. send me your email address.
Bruce
Bruce
(1)
(0)
If you join a group organization and don't volunteer or get with an actual command staff person you will think this. Yes VFW Post have bars and they use them as well as parties to pay bills and up keep. Every post has a relief fund they use to help out local vets. They also have programs for vets in school and for family members such as the patriots pen and voice of democracy programs essay contest programs for grade schoolers and high school students as well as teacher of the year EMT Fire fighter and police officer. Volunteers run these programs and help run the post. If you want change get active or stop complaining. I have been a commander for two years as well as going through regular degree program and masters program. I hear these complaints all the time and they come from people who have great ideas but don't want to work or volunteer because I am retired or whatever. Excuses you get what you put in you want change make it.
(7)
(0)
CPO Bobby Welch
Cpl Mischa Brady - from one commander to another... outstanding job! However the firefighter, EMT, Etc. of the year is not in the bylaws, it is a seperate program. Your state may require it for all state, mine does not. SFC Taylor, this may be a way for you to go in and make some changes for the better. As Brady said get with the district or state officers and see what can be done.
(1)
(0)
(0)
(0)
SSG Ray Elliott
I'm a former past commander of my post, I was very active for a while but got tired of doing it all, and couldn't get others to volunteer. Out of frustration I stopped going, when I realized these members didn't want to do anything but have a quick meeting and hit the bar.
(0)
(0)
...and a very smoky one at that. I'd love to sign up, but my wife hates cigarette smoke and is allergic to it. I can tolerate it, but when given the choice between drinking at a smoking or non-smoking place, I'll pick non-smoking every time.
(6)
(0)
1SG (Join to see)
The one in our town is nonsmoking but there is a lot of the non veteran criminal element that hangs out there. I would love to be active but I refuse to be if the focus isn't the veterans and the fraternal organization it is supposed to be.
(0)
(0)
MSgt Rosemary Connolly
Illinois bars are all non-smoking. Although I know a fellow vet who avoids the place because his wife is a recovering alcoholic and the temptation too great. Other than that he supports the VFW.
(0)
(0)
That local VFW is there for veterans and to hear that some of you won't sign up and join because they are grimy or smoky and the floors are sticky is b%$#@t. These bars are clubs first, remember that friend and the buildings were paid for by veterans from several wars ahead of you who wanted their own exclusive place to have a drink, talk to others about their service to our country and go to their meetings so they could continue to give back to their communities.
Yes a few are grimy and smoky but the vets that built them and opened them were proud of them and they shined when they first opened. The membership numbers in these clubs were busting at the seams. Now with dropping membership they are now struggling just to survive so they have to open their clubs up to the general public and the vets are trying to get the locals to come in and spend some of their money so they can keep the doors open.
I saw this in my own local VFW and American Legion. I couldn't belong there because I had never served overseas in a combat theatre. I have my beers there and help any way I can because I am amongst heroes when I walk into those places.
That shriveled up old man or men at the bar could have probably given any of you a run for your money when they were in their prime. They sacrificed a portion of their lives to protect our country. Maybe some of you that bitch and whine about how dirty your local VFW or American Legion is should join, roll your damn sleeves up and clean the place so you can be proud of it like they were at one time.
If you don't want to do it by yourself then convince a few of your friends to join too. With a little team work you could make those clubs shine again. Oh and if you don't know it these clubs if open to the public are usually smoke free.
Yes a few are grimy and smoky but the vets that built them and opened them were proud of them and they shined when they first opened. The membership numbers in these clubs were busting at the seams. Now with dropping membership they are now struggling just to survive so they have to open their clubs up to the general public and the vets are trying to get the locals to come in and spend some of their money so they can keep the doors open.
I saw this in my own local VFW and American Legion. I couldn't belong there because I had never served overseas in a combat theatre. I have my beers there and help any way I can because I am amongst heroes when I walk into those places.
That shriveled up old man or men at the bar could have probably given any of you a run for your money when they were in their prime. They sacrificed a portion of their lives to protect our country. Maybe some of you that bitch and whine about how dirty your local VFW or American Legion is should join, roll your damn sleeves up and clean the place so you can be proud of it like they were at one time.
If you don't want to do it by yourself then convince a few of your friends to join too. With a little team work you could make those clubs shine again. Oh and if you don't know it these clubs if open to the public are usually smoke free.
(4)
(0)
SPC (Join to see)
SSG Mark Franzen - Under their Federal Charter they could not accept you as a regular member because you did not serve in a combat zone. It was nothing personal but you did not meet the requirements set forth in their government charter.
(1)
(0)
SSG Mark Franzen
I still think that is a Bunch of BS I could have gone to any one of the campaigns For the Years
I was in 1974- 1990
I Think I got screwed by the US ARMY did 16 Years plus and got nothing for it other then
PTSD and thanks for your Response
SSG MARK A FRANZEN
USA
I was in 1974- 1990
I Think I got screwed by the US ARMY did 16 Years plus and got nothing for it other then
PTSD and thanks for your Response
SSG MARK A FRANZEN
USA
(0)
(0)
(0)
(0)
SFC Jim Ruether
SGM Maurice Risley - The National By-Laws provides for one type of membership, i.e., active membership in good standing in the Veterans of Foreign Wars with membership being in accordance with the By-Laws of the Veterans of Foreign Wars. Social membership or any other type of membership other than active membership meeting the eligibility criteria set forth in the By-Laws is not authorized or condoned. Any Post admitting social members is in direct violation of the By-Laws and subject to disciplinary action to include the revocation of charter. "Social Members" in the Clubroom/Canteen: In addition to the By-Laws of the Veterans of Foreign Wars, VFW Posts maintaining canteen/club operations serving alcohol beverages are required to comply with all applicable local, county and state regulations pertaining to such operations. In some instances, these regulations do provide for guests, but it is at the discretion of the Post to allow guests entry to their canteen/club.
(1)
(0)
The VFW, American Legion, AMVETs all have this problem because there is not enough participation from members and not enough money coming in to pay the bills. It's the plaque of almost all fraternal organizations. Check out the Moose, Eagles Elks, Rotary etc. They all have the same problem. It's like churches that have bingo. Members can cut down on some of this by participating more and getting the organization more involved in the community and supporting vets away from the local meeting place. Another problem is that many people are recruited into the organizations and once they pay their dues and get their magazine subscription the personal contact ends. We need to recruit, maintain contact, and get people involved in the day to day operation of the place.
(4)
(0)
SGT Morgan J Cooley
thanks for posting this. in my community ive tried to promote and better the local vfw through various efforts but i get the impression that the local leadership enjoys the way things are. i think its unfair but what can you do when no one wants you to make waves.
(0)
(0)
SFC Ernest Thurston
Make waves! Get involved! Don't worry about it. You won't get Court Marshalled. Or as we used to say "They can't eat me, can they?"
(1)
(0)
I have been a VFW member for over 10 years, but have never been affiliated with any post. The one's I have visited are a smokers and alcoholics haven. I have been asked to join this post, that post, but always get the same talk about VFW, its purpose, etc. In my personal opinion, they are very much out of touch with the younger (sub-45 yr old) people. Most posts around me average age is 50-60+. While I would like to see changes, the attitude is its been this way for years, so why change.
Now I am a part of MAGC (military association of geocachers), since I like outdoors, its more social, its veterans, service members, and supporters, and its free. I formed our San Antonio chapter, and though small, we are about outdoors, fun, and stories.
Now I am a part of MAGC (military association of geocachers), since I like outdoors, its more social, its veterans, service members, and supporters, and its free. I formed our San Antonio chapter, and though small, we are about outdoors, fun, and stories.
(3)
(0)
MSgt Juan Hernandez
Where are you guys located, I’m part of VFW 76, but I stopped going. Attended a couple of meeting and events and every time the older members pretty much have there clicks and won’t even engage with the new members. It’s disappointing but I guess once the Vietnam generation is gone, I see them eventually shutting down.
(0)
(0)
SFC Jim Ruether
MSgt Juan Hernandez - Montevideo, MN VFW Post 380 and American Legion Post 59 Has a sons and daughters of the American Legion, American Legion Riders, American Legion Auxiliary and VFW Auxiliary that have all sprung up from the simple clubs that now house them. So if you want to do something with your club suggest it and it might just happen.
(0)
(0)
The American Legion Post here in Brevard, NC is trying to move itself to a more family friendly operation. Last year, over the outraged howls of those who deem it their constitutional right to smoke, the Post went non-smoking. Only the then Post Commander quit over the issue. The bar is, of course, the major source of income, but there are dances and other family events at least quarterly which are helping to generate some revenue. There is also an effort (coming at the next meeting) to see how much interest and response can be generated with members participating in the Senior Games - get away from the bar and out into the sunshine, and let the general public see the Legion as something worthwhile in !the larger community.
(3)
(0)
My VFW post 9851 in Hendersonville, TN does not have that problem. Our meetings are used to discuss ways to raise money to help Vetrans in need. We have a food pantry that we operate in conjunction with the local Vietnam Vetrans of America chapter and provide monetary support. We are also working on a plan to send a bus load of gulf war Vetrans to the Middle East Conflicts Wall Memorial in Marseilles, IL. We have a bar but, it is downstairs from our meeting room and alcohol is not permitted at meetings. It looks like your post needs a change in leadership.
(2)
(0)
1SG (Join to see)
Kind of sad, but at least the non-Veterans are helping pay the bills. Hopefully you can change it around a little and get more Veterans to join.
Kind of sad, but at least the non-Veterans are helping pay the bills. Hopefully you can change it around a little and get more Veterans to join.
(2)
(0)
Yes Sergeant! Keeping it real! I feel being a soldier our level of pride is so high that wartime veterans would rather self medicate with alcohol then to go get help from the VA! And the soldiers that are still on active duty of course we didn't want to go to the TMC to get the proper help for fear of being sidelined from deployments, so we drink and unfortunately some of us get in trouble! Would have been good leadership and a good change command we should police our troops and show them other alternatives to hold the same camaraderie without alcohol or moderate use of alcohol good question Sergeant!!
(2)
(0)
SFC Jim Ruether
Good ideas Sergeant. You need to join to set the example and turn these clubs around. I am sure that they can use the help and a few new members will energize any vets club.
(0)
(0)
I can see doing an occasional pancake feed or something like that to interface with the community in a positive way and make some money for the post, but it doesn't seem right to be cottoning to non-veterans on a regular basis.
(2)
(0)
SFC Jim Ruether
Those non vets support us in a number of ways. They pay taxes, they know veterans and maybe stop at your club because their dad or grand dad is a member. They elect officials in their community, state and nation that support the military. They support us outright too because when given the choice, they spend their money in our clubs. You can't make it with occasional pancake feeds in these clubs because the memberships are down, property taxes are up, and many clubs have maybe a handful of members who make it to the meetings and another handful that help out setting the club up for a dance or wedding. If these clubs are to survive then service members like yourself will have to join, encourage others to do the same and when you have a majority that feel the same way you do then make those changes so the club reflects what it's membership wants. I wish you the best of luck!
(1)
(0)
SGM Maurice Risley
LTC Metz, These non vets are what is called the Auxiliary. consists of spouses and eligible dependents. Any non member of the Post or Aux. has to be signed in by a member. Yes, there are functions that are open house but it's not the norm.
(1)
(0)
SFC Jim Ruether
Our VFW and American Legion have surf and turf night, Taco nights, Fish Fry's, Tom and Jerry Night during the Christmas Season. We have birthday celebrations for our vets. We have Pirate Parties that will shiver your timbers and other seasonal celebrations too!
(1)
(0)
Recruit your friends, pay dues not much it is worth the magazine. One member=one vote TACMO. Take Charge Move 'em Out. They can't be that back. Start an Video oral history Program. Get the oldest first. Not many WWII left. You can do good, bring a JROTC program into a local school. Host the local recruiters for a meeting. Show some love Bro.!
(2)
(0)
The bar is basically a fund raiser and an important one. Besides, the activities in our hall bring customers and members.
(2)
(0)
My post has done the same thing. In doing so a lot of members has gone elsewhere. Its sad, rather than change their altitudes and make an effort to get young vet to join, they are willing to serve non vets that is only there for the cheap drinks.
(2)
(0)
SPC (Join to see)
get involved, go to meetings, run for office, and you will improve your post and also find out that without the bar income most posts would go under. The bar income helps support the other Veteran activities that are sponsored by the Post
(0)
(0)
CPL Brian Clouser
SPC (Join to see) - I joined in 1996 and since that time I have held every office but two. I have work at the county fair to promote the club I also got some of people that I served with in Iraq to join. But in my post its the Good ole boys is that run it-rather they are in office or not. Example of this the the floor could vote on something that will bring vet in and the every next meeting there would be 30-40 members to reopen the issue and vote it down.
After 20 years of this type of crap I left, I resigned as Quartermaster and contact both the State and National to change my life membership to Member at large because they allow male strippers in there to raise money. That type of thing does not belong in a family place...ever
I walk in there about 2 months ago to see my niece and on the Officers board were the exactly the same people in the same office as they were 20 years ago. So if my town's post survive its will be because the good ole boys has die off and they got younger, more up to date people in office. When that happens I will start doing to meetings again until then I'll go to the Legion or stay at home
After 20 years of this type of crap I left, I resigned as Quartermaster and contact both the State and National to change my life membership to Member at large because they allow male strippers in there to raise money. That type of thing does not belong in a family place...ever
I walk in there about 2 months ago to see my niece and on the Officers board were the exactly the same people in the same office as they were 20 years ago. So if my town's post survive its will be because the good ole boys has die off and they got younger, more up to date people in office. When that happens I will start doing to meetings again until then I'll go to the Legion or stay at home
(1)
(0)
I don't even set foot into the local VFW. It's nothing but a bunch of non veteran older people and 60somthing bar flies. Nothing like it should be.
(2)
(0)
(1)
(0)
SFC Jim Ruether
Well there'd be one more vet in there if you joined. Convince your buddies to sign up too and if the club can go it on their own close the club to members only. Real simple but you need to get involved.
(2)
(0)
Read This Next