Posted on Jul 12, 2015
Recent study finds that more guns does not lead to less crime. What are your thoughts on the issue?
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A high-profile shooting, like the June 17 crime that left dead nine members of a historically black church in Charleston, South Carolina, is typically followed by calls for greater gun control, along with counter arguments that the best way to stop gun crimes is with more guns.
"The one thing that would have at least ameliorated the horrible situation in Charleston would have been that if somebody in that prayer meeting had a conceal carry or there had been either an off-duty policeman or an on-duty policeman, somebody with the legal authority to carry a firearm and could have stopped the shooter," presidential candidate Mike Huckabee said in a Fox News interview on June 19.
A new study, however, throws cold water on the idea that a well-armed populace deters criminals or prevents murders. Instead, higher ownership of guns in a state is linked to more firearm robberies, more firearm assaults and more homicide in general.
"We found no support for the hypothesis that owning more guns leads to a drop or a reduction in violent crime," said study researcher Michael Monuteaux, an epidemiologist and professor of pediatrics at Harvard Medical School. "Instead, we found the opposite."
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/guns-dont-deter-crime-study-finds/ar-AAcDdis
"The one thing that would have at least ameliorated the horrible situation in Charleston would have been that if somebody in that prayer meeting had a conceal carry or there had been either an off-duty policeman or an on-duty policeman, somebody with the legal authority to carry a firearm and could have stopped the shooter," presidential candidate Mike Huckabee said in a Fox News interview on June 19.
A new study, however, throws cold water on the idea that a well-armed populace deters criminals or prevents murders. Instead, higher ownership of guns in a state is linked to more firearm robberies, more firearm assaults and more homicide in general.
"We found no support for the hypothesis that owning more guns leads to a drop or a reduction in violent crime," said study researcher Michael Monuteaux, an epidemiologist and professor of pediatrics at Harvard Medical School. "Instead, we found the opposite."
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/guns-dont-deter-crime-study-finds/ar-AAcDdis
Crime
Violence
Gun Control
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Responses: 140
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GySgt Wayne A. Ekblad Let the balance of the studies begin! Can we focus on the criminal use of weapons and remove the stats that occur when lawful use by police and home owners for defense?
I am confident the left will roll out 'objective' study after study. Very soon they will vilify anyone who supports the 2nd Amendment rights as a gun violence 'denier' and tell you the science is settled. All the while pushing bias study after study into the MSM and media matters.
Why not put emphasis on development of non-lethals that can be used by citizens and police to protect themselves. Why not focus on criminal use of weapons?
I am confident the left will roll out 'objective' study after study. Very soon they will vilify anyone who supports the 2nd Amendment rights as a gun violence 'denier' and tell you the science is settled. All the while pushing bias study after study into the MSM and media matters.
Why not put emphasis on development of non-lethals that can be used by citizens and police to protect themselves. Why not focus on criminal use of weapons?
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SFC Robert Falco
PO1 David Kingsley - Beto O'Rourke: 'Hell yes, we are going to take your AR-15'
YouTube
https://www.youtube.com › watch
1:54
Presidential hopeful Beto O'Rourke gives his vision for gun control at the Democratic debate. In passionate answer on gun violence,
YouTube
https://www.youtube.com › watch
1:54
Presidential hopeful Beto O'Rourke gives his vision for gun control at the Democratic debate. In passionate answer on gun violence,
Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.
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PO1 David Kingsley
your link didn't carry through
Google is your friend
I found a clip where Beto O'Rourke was talking about taking guns from people. It appears that he had recently been as a government representative to a Mass Shooting incident. It seems that his biggest concern was that a standard size and form of ammunition for the AR-15 and the AK-47 is such that they are designed to produce incredible amounts of damage. it may have just the design of the ammunition, but that Combat Ammunition, shouldn't be available to Civilians in any form
Google is your friend
I found a clip where Beto O'Rourke was talking about taking guns from people. It appears that he had recently been as a government representative to a Mass Shooting incident. It seems that his biggest concern was that a standard size and form of ammunition for the AR-15 and the AK-47 is such that they are designed to produce incredible amounts of damage. it may have just the design of the ammunition, but that Combat Ammunition, shouldn't be available to Civilians in any form
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SGT Scott Moreland
PO1 (Join to see) - The past 8 years have proven the LTC correct on every point. To correct your last statement - I know that I'll be safe: shopping, worshiping, clubbing, relaxing in a park, minding my own business, knocking on the wrong door, or just going to school BECAUSE of the right to carry everywhere to defend myself and others at any time.
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PO1 Don Uhrig
https://www.ted.com/talks/stephen_coleman_non_lethal_weapons_a_moral_hazard?utm_source=rn-app-share&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=tedspread
Non-lethal has its own downside. Take a few minutes to watch this TED Talk.
Non-lethal has its own downside. Take a few minutes to watch this TED Talk.
Non-lethal weapons, a moral hazard?
Pepper spray, Tasers, tear gas, rubber bullets -- these "non-lethal" weapons are being used by more and more local police forces, as well as military forces brought in to control civilian crowds and other situations. Despite their name, non-lethal weapons have been known to cause deaths ... and as Stephen Coleman suggests, there are other, more insidious hazards as well. He explores the complex ethics -- and the unexpected consequences -- of...
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I buy (on average) about two guns a year....I've had zero problems with crime or criminals approaching me or my family....I have no problem with more guns.
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CPT (Join to see)
SGM (Join to see) - Spray and pray has never been a particularly effective method of targeting the enemy. If that soldier you refer to existed, it is an indictment both of infantry training and the mental health services.
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SGT Scott Moreland
PV2 Larry Sellnow - Took 5 months digging up a near 30 year old article in the local library? Let's get back to the original post about more guns not adding up to less crime against your article. Arm everyone working in those banks and have them trained and ready. You walk into just about any bank, you're strolling into a kill pocket, surrounded on 3 sides. I don't care how good you've trained, there's going to be fatalities. You won't make it past the 2nd bank alive, guaranteed. If criminals have ill intent, trained or untrained, they're going to think twice because even the innocent looking church lady could turn out to be pure hell in a gunfight. Times that by being surrounded by at least 15 people or more in any given place and time of day, who are armed and trained well, I'd bet my lifetime earnings that crime goes down.
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SGT John Schmelzkopf
I had 3 Combat Tours, 1st 1/503 went with Line Co's, 65-66, 2nd 135 AHC volunteered as Door Gunner, 70-71, then 3rd MACV, JMC, 72-73. With exception of 135th, the only times I went full Auto was test firing my Weapon before going to load out for Op's.
I'm 76 and can present from concealed under 3-4 seconds, have done AirSoft and Simunition under Gun with 75% or better survival and downed BG consistent.
Practice, Mindset, "Get off the X", Situation Awareness and practice hitting on the move.
Also my motto "Show me a Man that changes EDC or Holster like he changes his underwear and I'll show you a Man who'll be changing his underwear if he survives his first Gunfight"
Always subconscious, what if, avoid, move away and if possible when getting off X, try to move to have clear shot and try to not have innocents in return fire area. Remember you can't take a bullet that's left the barrel back, you also might be drawing fire. It's better to see Predators and avoid if possible and even if 100% justified it could cost you $20K or more
I'm 76 and can present from concealed under 3-4 seconds, have done AirSoft and Simunition under Gun with 75% or better survival and downed BG consistent.
Practice, Mindset, "Get off the X", Situation Awareness and practice hitting on the move.
Also my motto "Show me a Man that changes EDC or Holster like he changes his underwear and I'll show you a Man who'll be changing his underwear if he survives his first Gunfight"
Always subconscious, what if, avoid, move away and if possible when getting off X, try to move to have clear shot and try to not have innocents in return fire area. Remember you can't take a bullet that's left the barrel back, you also might be drawing fire. It's better to see Predators and avoid if possible and even if 100% justified it could cost you $20K or more
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A1C Jj Birchard
But is your family safe from you, or you from them? There are sound reasons why cops always look at the family and friends first when someone is murdered.
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i believe there is still some data in this link that is a little miss leading. I pulled this from the article.
this study method proves that more guns are linked to more gun crime and overall homicide, but not that access to guns directly causes this criminal uptick, said study researcher David Hemenway, the director of the Harvard Injury Control Research Center.
now I give the example if a robber comes into my house armed with a knife or a weapon other then a firearm and I shoot and kill him in self defense then that would count as a gun homicide would it not? so that fact that I used my weapon in self defense would then be added to the statistic saying that owning a gun leads to more gun crime and gun homicide.
this study method proves that more guns are linked to more gun crime and overall homicide, but not that access to guns directly causes this criminal uptick, said study researcher David Hemenway, the director of the Harvard Injury Control Research Center.
now I give the example if a robber comes into my house armed with a knife or a weapon other then a firearm and I shoot and kill him in self defense then that would count as a gun homicide would it not? so that fact that I used my weapon in self defense would then be added to the statistic saying that owning a gun leads to more gun crime and gun homicide.
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SPC Paul Eiden
It seems that every mass shooting provides a political out cry for the removal of guns. Backed by the political media hype of the shooting as a call for more gun control rather than what was the cause or reason. In most cases it was mental illness that never was addressed. Killings are going to happen whether it is a gun, knife, hammer or a rock as proved with history going back to Cain and Able. Gun control does nothing to prevent or stop criminals but puts extra burden on legal gun owners. PERIOD!!!
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CAPT Kevin M. Mc Guinness
SSgt Paul Esquibel Maybe we’ll try Prohibition again since that was so successful last time.
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CSM Thomas Ray
Not only that but suicide is considered a homicide as well and counts in the total of gun deaths
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We have a segment of society glorifying gang activity and the culture of violence and death. We have a segment of society seeing serving time in prison as a rite of passage. We have a segment of society seeing narcotics trafficking as a valid way of making money. Yet we concentrate on the number of guns bought legally, instead of those sold on the black market.
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CPT (Join to see)
MSgt Steve Sweeney - The insider is far FAR left leaning periodical. They are more leftist than AOC. Now that's really saying something!
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SSgt James Kirkpatrick
MSgt Steve Sweeney - Amazing... ONE citation of a location, and no facts to back it up? No reportage, no video? Nothing?
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SGT Scott Moreland
MSgt Steve Sweeney - are you taking things so personally because you are a gang member, or is it that roughly 30% of gang members are black/african american? BTW - the race card was dropped by verbiage as soon as "dog whistle" came into play. The bottom line is although the LTC presented a lopsided view of violent crime stats, most violent crimes committed by gangs happens in metro areas with the strictest gun control. The laws are a complete failure because it doesn't address the root of the issue. Turn on the TV and what's being promoted in culture? Glamorization of criminal lifestyles, rhetoric that dehumanizes people and life, and morally bankrupt "role models". Why is anyone surprised at all when people turn to things that continue that trend?
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Unfortunately all firearms discussions tend to devolve into "guns, good or bad, hhhmmm?" and ignore everything that surrounds the issue, such as why are people turning to crime, how are the treated after they are caught, what restrictions are on them after jail time; also legal gun ownership rights, responsibilities, and obligations, such as training, secure storage, and so on.
Gun violence doesn't happen in a vacuum, there are all sorts of things going on around it in society that leads to the moment of violence, or deals with the impact afterwards, and conditions that set the stage (or not) for the next round of violence. Anything that focuses solely on the guns and nothing else is going to be just another pointless go-round.
Gun violence doesn't happen in a vacuum, there are all sorts of things going on around it in society that leads to the moment of violence, or deals with the impact afterwards, and conditions that set the stage (or not) for the next round of violence. Anything that focuses solely on the guns and nothing else is going to be just another pointless go-round.
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SMSgt Lawrence McCarter
Good point, and it's not so much guns but when they are used in crimes the criminals aren't getting the penalty that even the laws calls for very often. The courts themselves have failed to enforce the very laws they are obligated to themselves follow through on and removed these individual Criminals from society. Over and over again in 40 years of Law Enforcement I've seen this failure on the part of the courts who are supposed to be looking out for the victims, NOT the criminals.
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CAPT Kevin M. Mc Guinness
Violence in America is a matter of public health and education. Gun violence is a multidetermined problem that is all too easily swept up in media and political sensationalism.
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SGM Mikel Dawson
Precise. Unless you go to the source of the problem, then you'll never get s solution.
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I just wish they wouldn't lump all firearm related deaths in the "gun violence" category. Suicide (in general terms) and self-defense shootings (by default) are not crimes. Why list them as such? As far as I know, the FBI and the CDC still list police related shootings (justified homicides) as gun violence crimes. To me, that skews any data points IMO.
And the adage about statistics still rings true. "There are lies, damn lies, and then there are statistics."
And the adage about statistics still rings true. "There are lies, damn lies, and then there are statistics."
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GySgt Wayne A. Ekblad
I'm with you MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P --- I suspect that the researchers had a certain bias (and desired outcome).
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MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P
Exaclty so GySgt Wayne A. Ekblad. You've hit the very reason I am skeptical of any "research" from either side of the issue. Facts and data have a way of being twisted to say exactly the point the author is trying to prove.
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Suspended Profile
Gun control is similar to Birth Control.....everyone has thier own idea of whats right and wrong and they all think only their posision is correct. Like so make things in our country this will not be solved until people come to the table with an open minds willing to listen to what each other has to say and willing to listen and make concession on all sides when/if needed. But this will never happen in our country because for being an democracy we are a country full of "closed minded" people"
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Denmark's got some of the toughest gun laws there are - guess what, there is still crime. Their knife laws you wouldn't believe - I've got a Gerber folding pocket knife with an two inch locking blade - illegal. If I get caught with it, automatic 7 days in jail, don't pass go. Yet, there is still a nice crime rate.
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CW3 Harvey K.
PV2 Larry Sellnow - Your "reply" was an attempt at deflection. It is certainly irrelevant to the ignorance you displayed regarding the usage of "well regulated" in the 2nd Amendment.
It appears you are one of the demented who think they can drop the 1789 usage, and apply the modern connotations of "well regulated" by having that adjectival phrase time-travel over two centuries into the future.
It appears you are one of the demented who think they can drop the 1789 usage, and apply the modern connotations of "well regulated" by having that adjectival phrase time-travel over two centuries into the future.
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CPT (Join to see)
PV2 Larry Sellnow: For some reason you always resort to ad homonym attacks whenever you cannot triumph by crafting a well considered thought.
So, what's with that?
So, what's with that?
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SFC Jim Freshour
Lawrence throws around the term 4th point of contact like he knows what it is. He was probably chaptered in week 2 of basic for bed wetting.
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There's a whole lot of problems with this study. For one it's comparing firearms homicide to justifiable homicide. It is not comparing homicide to defensive gun uses. If we look at some studies regarding defensive firearms uses we can see why. The old stand by is 2,500,000 DGUs per annum (Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology, Kleck and Gertz, Fall 1995) and a more recent number is 235,700 DGUs per annum (Firearm Violence, 1993-2011, Bureau of Justice Statistics, May 2013). Or we can go to some of the most recent research, Obama's so called gun study by the CDC "Priorities for Research to Reduce the Threat of Firearm-Related Violence ( 2013 )". Now I could summarize a couple of key points, especially including their defensive firearms use estimates, but Guns and Ammo did that for me three years ago, so I'm just going to link. Read the report, it's quite interesting.
http://www.gunsandammo.com/politics/cdc-gun-research-backfires-on-obama/
http://www.gunsandammo.com/politics/cdc-gun-research-backfires-on-obama/
CDC Gun Research Backfires on Obama - Guns & Ammo
CDC gun research is a blow to Obama’s unconstitutional agenda. It largely supports the Second Amendment, and contradicts common anti-gun arguments.
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SP6 Peter Kreutzfeldt
you could leave a firearm at a bank and it is unlikely that the firearm will rob the bank
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