Posted on Sep 8, 2015
Retired Marine's uniform: Is this stolen valor or is there another reason?
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I came across this article and related picture and just about lost my mind. For the life of me I can't think why a retired Marine would go so far outside the box regarding uniform standards (e.g. blood stripe in white trousers, mini-medals in dress blues, etc.). What do you think?
ABILENE, Texas (May 24, 2015) - For Marine Gunnery Sgt. Richard Dobbins, Memorial Day has a great meaning. But it's not one that's unique to him.
The Vietnam War veteran said he lost friends on the battlefield. They were together through good times and bad times, he said.
But more good than bad, he quickly added.
"(Memorial Day) means missing my friends in the service," he said. "I lost a couple buddies in Vietnam. It makes me think of when I was stationed in Spain. We went to Japan, saw Hiroshima and Nagasaki. We were taken to Tokyo."
Dobbins spent Sunday morning dressed in his service uniform, surrounded by Boy Scouts, fellow veterans and interested onlookers at Elmdale Baptist Church. They, along with worshippers, paid tribute to fallen soldiers, former prisoners of war and other combat veterans.
http://www.reporternews.com/news/local-news/memorial-day-service-honors-those-who-served-and-those-who-still-serve_39209276
ABILENE, Texas (May 24, 2015) - For Marine Gunnery Sgt. Richard Dobbins, Memorial Day has a great meaning. But it's not one that's unique to him.
The Vietnam War veteran said he lost friends on the battlefield. They were together through good times and bad times, he said.
But more good than bad, he quickly added.
"(Memorial Day) means missing my friends in the service," he said. "I lost a couple buddies in Vietnam. It makes me think of when I was stationed in Spain. We went to Japan, saw Hiroshima and Nagasaki. We were taken to Tokyo."
Dobbins spent Sunday morning dressed in his service uniform, surrounded by Boy Scouts, fellow veterans and interested onlookers at Elmdale Baptist Church. They, along with worshippers, paid tribute to fallen soldiers, former prisoners of war and other combat veterans.
http://www.reporternews.com/news/local-news/memorial-day-service-honors-those-who-served-and-those-who-still-serve_39209276
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Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 80
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I don't know the age or history of this Marine, but I'd caution against calling him fake off of a uniform error(s). There was another article on Stolen Valor about a Marine Master Sergeant who was a Korean/Nam guy. He was spotted by fellow Marines while boarding a plane in his Dress Blues with white gloves. His uniform was 8up with ribbons in the wrong order and wearing medals. He was "outed" and made a complete fool of until the family of that Marine got involved. It turned out he IS a Marine, and a highly decorated one at that with the correct rank on his uniform although his medals and ribbons were in the wrong places. It was also shown this Marine has dementia and was boarding planes looking like this on other occasions. I hate to see Stolen Valor like the next person, but before we bring down Thor's hammer and get ready to unload a metric load of asspain, let's do our due diligence and investigate. There are more than enough NCO's on RP to bring down Thor's hammer twice if this guy is wrong; how many will there be if this is a simple mistake and there are other factors involved?
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SSG Nick Tramontano
Regarding ribbons, one has to consider the time the person was in the military. A good example is Clint Eastwood's charactor 'Gunnery Sergeant Tom Highway' in Heartbreak Ridge. His charactor was a Marine that has service going back to the Korean war. The time frame of the movie was 1983. Ribbons sometimes change order during later years.
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Capt Lance Gallardo
I brought a pair of captain's rank insignia to a former Marine Aviator (WWII Combat Vet) who I noticed kept showing up at our local Memorial day service year after year wearing two first Lt bars instead of the proper rank insignia for captain. Nobody seemed to care, but it kind of bothered me that this wonderful man did not have the proper rank insignia on his Green Alphas with those wonderful WWII medals and awards. He died the following year after I gave him those Captain's Bars and I hope his family buried him in the correct uniform with those Captain's bars on his Service Alphas. I don't know why this should matter to me a whit, but it does. WWII was like yesterday for my family since my mother's father was KIA in the Philippines fighting the Japs March 14th, 1945, so I guess I never look at a WWII Vet without some affection and great respect, partly for a grandfather I never got to know. https://www.abmc.gov/search-abmc-burials-and-memorializations/detail/WWII_108516#.Vgqc6nulv-E
John V. Gallardo | American Battle Monuments Commission
The Purple Heart is awarded to members of the Armed Forces of the United States who after 5 April 1917 have been wounded or killed in action against an enemy of the United States or an opposing armed force, while serving with friendly foreign forces engaged in an armed conflict, as the result of acts of enemy or hostile opposing forces, as a result of terrorist attacks or attacks on peacekeeping forces since 28 March 1973, or by friendly fire...
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SSG Warren Swan
Capt Lance Gallardo - Sir you gave that Marine more respect that those who sat there and saw the situation and didn't fix it. Semper Fi! I KNOW he'll have his uniform ready...St. Pete does uniform inspections before you get in the pearly gates.
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Capt Lance Gallardo
Thank you S/Sgt Swan- I sometimes wonder why we care about those kinds of little things. I was kind of embarrassed when I gave him the captain's bars because you never know how someone is going to take a gift. The last thing I wanted was someone like him to think is that he was out of uniform or somehow was not up to snuff. I spoke with his daughter and she gave me the green light, and I think he was happy to receive them. Unfortunately he did not make it to the next Memorial Day due to getting his final orders to report to the big CinC, but as you say, he reported to St. Peter in the correct uniform I am sure. God Bless you for your kind words of encouragement. Semper Fidelis to you as well.
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I'm late on this but the charge of "stolen valor" is misused constantly. It is not illegal to wear a military uniform or even claim to be a veteran, it's when you do it for personal gain that it becomes an issue. In 40 years I might be in the mood to wear a combo of my Marine Corps and Air Force uniforms. I've pulled my 50/50 for 20 and by that time, you can bite me because I'm 80 and could give a squirrel fart. I might even knife-hand you for good measure. Now if you catch me scamming to boost my retirement fund, by all means kick me in the chest, but if I'm reliving the best time in my life, leave me be.
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SSG Brian Lovins
Growing up in the 80's it was not uncommon for homeless Vets to wear their old field jackets with everything still on them, back then we didn't question legitimacy just gave them a quarter and moved on.
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SSG Steven McDanield
Just another observation here, But there is a mix of Army and Marine citations and a GWOT service ribbon. He may be hardcore, but earning that service ribbon would mean he was serving into his 60's or 70's. even 40 year veterans lying about thier age to enlist would be out by the time they are 54-56. Shame we have to go through this, and being respectful and careful with this is most certainly called for, but you shouldn't be out there influencing young minds if you never served. He's worth a cursory check of FOIA.
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In my VFW post in Northern Utah, the WW2, Korean, Vietnam veterans are usually a mess and completely Out of any regs and usually pretty ragged looking. They do Honor Guard for about 5-15 funerals a week, Eagle Scout functions and a metric ton of community services. All unpaid. We also have a lot of heroes in the post, including an Iwo Jima marine and A Doolittle Raider(Chase Neilson, deceased). So their fubar uniforms really shouldn't be a concern in my opinion. They earned my respect before most of us were born, and I give it unconditionally.
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CPT Brent Ferguson
SFC Matthew Parker - although I could purchase appropriate metals to be honest I just tend to want to display where I can find them in my drawer rather than spending money it would be more appropriately directed toward my children. Granted my drawers only contain medals that I actually earned but they're not all there. My uniform may not be quite right. I don't wear it very often, but if you should see me in it try to look at the big picture instead of the thread that may still need to be attended to.
In my day, we only wore dress uniforms in public, camo in public was an automatic article 15. Recently I have seen a lot of active service members wearing dirty camo, and looking far worse than the gentleman in this picture- who doubtless served his country with distinction.
In my day, we only wore dress uniforms in public, camo in public was an automatic article 15. Recently I have seen a lot of active service members wearing dirty camo, and looking far worse than the gentleman in this picture- who doubtless served his country with distinction.
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SGT Jamison Calloway
CPT Brent Ferguson - smarter soldiers don't mean better soldiers.Wash and wear army.
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GySgt Steven Hedges
Marines take more care and attention to the absolute correctness of their uniforms
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SGM Erik Marquez
GySgt Steven Hedges - Kind if.. Marines were Taught to take care in regards to their uniform appearance.. My personal observations over a lot of years is anecdotal proof those lesses were either not learned, or retained in many cases.....
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He would need to be questioned to know for sure one way or another. It could be that is all he had. He might have wanted to wear the uniform again, but did not have the correct pants or medals, so he went with the closest things he had. We are all on the Internet so it is easy for us to order stuff, but many older folks are not, so it is not easy for them to get replacement items.
Again someone would need to talk to him, but if he is a Marine, then it might just be as simple as someone buying him a pair of the correct pants.
Again someone would need to talk to him, but if he is a Marine, then it might just be as simple as someone buying him a pair of the correct pants.
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Capt Jeff S.
Veteran Marines should know how to get on the phone and call the Marine Corps Exchange, or The Marine Shop in Quantico, VA for uniforms and accessories.
http://mymcx.com/index.cfm/myproducts/uniforms/
https://www.marineshop.net/uniforms
http://mymcx.com/index.cfm/myproducts/uniforms/
https://www.marineshop.net/uniforms
The ONLY Store Specifically for Marines and their Families. Price Matching, Catalogs, and our 10+ Programs to Save you Money - Click to save NOW at your Marine Corps Exchange!
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CPT Brent Ferguson
The Vietnam ribbon is closest to his heart, THIS man knows where he was 40 years ago. Do you?
Our entire nation treated Vietnam Vets with disdain when they came home. Many were forever broken even if they made it safely back to our shores. Are we now going to vilify them for not wearing a uniform properly that we (not so long ago) treated with disregard as a nation? If this man earned JUST ONE of his ribbons, he deserves respect.
I understand the desire to present a bold, beautiful face to the public to place our military in a favorable perspective. This desire is laudable, and I commend you for it. Be careful not to work contrary to your desire by presenting an ugly face to the public, that of a hyper-vigilant micro-manager policing the behavior and dress of those who have already served their country with distinction.
Maybe the band uniform white pants were all he could afford?
As much as I value truth, I still can't blame any Vietnam vet for seeking attention for their service - they all caught so much flack when they got home. Imagine, if you served your country, your friends died, and you came home to be called a baby killing nazi? Then one day, FORTY YEARS LATER, people started treating you with respect for your service and you had to cobble together a uniform - would YOU remember what goes on it, in the proper order? Maybe you threw your medals away when you came home and found your heroism was hated by the people you served? Where would you get new ones if the military (as was often the case with this era of vets) no longer had records of your awards?
The Vietnam ribbon is closest to his heart, THIS man knows where he was 40 years ago. Do you?
Our entire nation treated Vietnam Vets with disdain when they came home. Many were forever broken even if they made it safely back to our shores. Are we now going to vilify them for not wearing a uniform properly that we (not so long ago) treated with disregard as a nation? If this man earned JUST ONE of his ribbons, he deserves respect.
I understand the desire to present a bold, beautiful face to the public to place our military in a favorable perspective. This desire is laudable, and I commend you for it. Be careful not to work contrary to your desire by presenting an ugly face to the public, that of a hyper-vigilant micro-manager policing the behavior and dress of those who have already served their country with distinction.
Maybe the band uniform white pants were all he could afford?
As much as I value truth, I still can't blame any Vietnam vet for seeking attention for their service - they all caught so much flack when they got home. Imagine, if you served your country, your friends died, and you came home to be called a baby killing nazi? Then one day, FORTY YEARS LATER, people started treating you with respect for your service and you had to cobble together a uniform - would YOU remember what goes on it, in the proper order? Maybe you threw your medals away when you came home and found your heroism was hated by the people you served? Where would you get new ones if the military (as was often the case with this era of vets) no longer had records of your awards?
The Vietnam ribbon is closest to his heart, THIS man knows where he was 40 years ago. Do you?
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LTC Paul Labrador
Also a matter of whether the uniform he is wearing was correct when he left service. As we all know, uniforms change over time. Sometimes even subtle changes can be obvious, but they are not necessarily "wrong".
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GySgt Steven Hedges
that is easily said from an Air Force Officer.. The Air Force's uniforms look like a bus driver's uniform.. Sorry if my opinion ruffles any feathers, but this is a forum for personal opinions.
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on one hand I can say I respect his service and almost say he has earned the right to do as he likes... then the Marine in me comes out and I say Unsat GySgt...
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Cpl (Join to see)
I prowl around in the dark recesses of RP in the middle of the night when you are all safely secure in your beds... waiting for the perfect moment to come out and comment.
Seriously, work load lightened up...
thanks for missing me PV2 (Join to see)
Seriously, work load lightened up...
thanks for missing me PV2 (Join to see)
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GySgt Steven Hedges
Right on, Hicks. After being inspected in many CG and IG inspections and then being on the staff of the same, and being the DetCmdr of 2 Embassy Detachments, it has just got to be right or not worn.. and don't you think that somebody told him that he was FUBAR and he still continued to wear it..
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I Completely Understand what you are talking about being a Marine myself. I do not believe it is Stolen Valor myself. I just think he's out of Regs. Would I call him on it? No, I think That's how he remembers the uniform being warn that way in his mind, And like Sgt Spencer Sikder said you run into a lot of old timer vets that are Confused when at the V.A., I don't see no intentional disrespect for the Uniform by him being out of Regs. I would either just let it go or wait till after the event or when he is leaving and strike up a conversation and say something like "I don't recall the White Trousers having a blood stripe ( Who knows maybe he feels that's part of a way to remember his fallen Brothers) and about the mini medals too, but in a non confrontational way. look at how many times shit like that have happen with active duty Marines. Hell even the Commandant Wore the Marine Raider Unit Patch on his Uniform to honor the O.G. Raiders he was talking with. Yes the did bring back the Marine Raider Title for the MARSOC units recently but he wore it a year or two before the change. (he did catch flack yes). I don't think making the GySgt stand tall and chewing him out would be the right call either.
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LCpl Steve Smith
Yeah you do have a point since that 1 old guy had everyone fooled for Years, saying that he was the 1st Seal. I just have a soft spot for old people.
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MAJ (Join to see)
GySgt John O'Donnell - I would tread carefully Gunny you're probably older than dirt so you soon will be like this guy. Save your comments on how you're a Marine and all that. I can't believe you're such and AHole this guy is old and probably seen more action than you. I bet you are a POG and as the POG that you are you will make up some story stating that you served as a 300 series Marine. whatever save it LOSER obviously you are a POG cause only POGs know about regulations real Grunts are too busy doing their job to memorize all the regulations.
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GySgt John O'Donnell
MAJ (Join to see) - I am professionally sadden with your lack of decorum in this situation. We are here to debate, not berate. Also, you can check my bio, that has been "verified" by RP, that speaks for its self.
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GySgt John O'Donnell
LCpl Steve Smith - I have a "soft spot" too, that why I initially posted this question. In this case things the "questions" just kept adding up (if you look at the pictures n the actual article you'll see he is wearing the Global War on Terrorism Service Ribbon, along with others that were not issued during his "described" era of service).
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If he is posing as a Marine and never served or did serve and is wearing decorations or insignia not earned then it is stolen valor. If he is retired or prior service and earned the decoration and insignia then it is not stolen valor, just "out of uniform." I do recall that the blood stripe is sold separately and has to be sewn onto the blue trousers after promotion to Corporal. Perhaps the gentleman has gotten confused and had them sewn on his white trousers. Uniform regulations are confusing. I personally kept my dress blues for a long time figuring that I would be buried in them only to learn that I cannot. My period of service was not during wartime. So glad I didn't kick the bucket before I learned my error, eternity is a long time to try to stay hidden.
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Maj William Raney II
Would love to have someone quote me the order that a Marine cannot be buried in uniform unless they served in a period of war.
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PO1 John Miller
Maj William Raney II, Sgt W Hibshman, LCpl (Join to see)
I love looking up these kinds of things and I think there may be a bit of confusion. According to http://www.marines.mil/Portals/59/Publications/MCO%20P1020.34G%20W%20CH%201-5.pdf (USMC Uniorm Regulations) Chapter 11, it states: "b. Former Members of the Armed Forces. Unless qualified under another
provision of this Order or under the provisions of 10 U.S.C. 772, former
members who served honorably during a declared or undeclared war and whose
most recent service was terminated under honorable conditions may wear the
uniform in the highest grade held during such war service only upon the
following occasions and in the course of travel incident thereto:
(1) Military funerals, memorial services, weddings, and inaugurals."
I take this to read that former members who served during a declared/undeclared war may wear their uniforms to a military funeral. I don't see anything that says honorably discharged members who did not serve during a declared/undeclared war cannot be buried in their uniform.
I love looking up these kinds of things and I think there may be a bit of confusion. According to http://www.marines.mil/Portals/59/Publications/MCO%20P1020.34G%20W%20CH%201-5.pdf (USMC Uniorm Regulations) Chapter 11, it states: "b. Former Members of the Armed Forces. Unless qualified under another
provision of this Order or under the provisions of 10 U.S.C. 772, former
members who served honorably during a declared or undeclared war and whose
most recent service was terminated under honorable conditions may wear the
uniform in the highest grade held during such war service only upon the
following occasions and in the course of travel incident thereto:
(1) Military funerals, memorial services, weddings, and inaugurals."
I take this to read that former members who served during a declared/undeclared war may wear their uniforms to a military funeral. I don't see anything that says honorably discharged members who did not serve during a declared/undeclared war cannot be buried in their uniform.
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Maj William Raney II
Good response John Miller. This post only regards burial. That is the current in order regarding to USMC Uniform Regs. Sometimes it gets confused, distorted, and/or leadership is not correcting bad "gouge" WRT proper wear of the uniform. I have unfortunately dealt with this on a few occasions, a Marine discharged under honorable conditions can elect to be buried in the service uniform. OTH, BCD, and others, not so. Sgt Hibshman, if you received an honorable discharge, you earned the RIGHT to be buried in that uniform according to the orders. If you have been told otherwise by Military or VA personnel, please research it--and contact your congressman to initiate a CONGRINT, or something, into why you were led to understand that.
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LCpl Steve Smith
Sgt W Hibshman Where did you hear that? That you could not be berried in your uniform? who told you that? Someone gave you bad dope and just likes spewing scuttlebutt.
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I spent two tours in Viet Nam, and a total of 30 years on active duty, and am now almost 74 years old. Most of us who served in Viet Nam, especially from the 03 community lost friends - so in my mind at least, losing his buddies is no excuse for the uniform infractions. All that being said I still know how to prepare and wear a uniform, especially Blue Dress A. Don't know who this GySgt is but the guy needs to get some help. Its almost like he is playing make believe dress up. And I don't really care about how noble the gesture is - if you are going to wear the uniform and represent the Marine Corps then wear it correctly, or don't wear it at all.
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CPT Brent Ferguson
Thank you for your service.
I think I'd say that to any Vietnam vet before attempting to correct them. I'd probably offer to buy you a beer first too. I'd ask myself if not correcting the Vet would have an adverse effect on the service or country that I love. Then I'd VERY tactfully* express my concern and offer my sincere assistance in correcting the issue.
I would kindly suggest that if this is such a big issue for you, that perhaps you should put together a proper uniform for him to wear next time he has a photo op, that is, if he's still alive.
A bit of compassion for our brothers in arms might represent our military better than rigid adherence to regulation with draconian response to infractions.
If you ever make it to Ga., I'll gladly buy you a beer.
Thank you for your service.
*(after all, some of these demented old folk still remember how to kill you with a spoon!)
I think I'd say that to any Vietnam vet before attempting to correct them. I'd probably offer to buy you a beer first too. I'd ask myself if not correcting the Vet would have an adverse effect on the service or country that I love. Then I'd VERY tactfully* express my concern and offer my sincere assistance in correcting the issue.
I would kindly suggest that if this is such a big issue for you, that perhaps you should put together a proper uniform for him to wear next time he has a photo op, that is, if he's still alive.
A bit of compassion for our brothers in arms might represent our military better than rigid adherence to regulation with draconian response to infractions.
If you ever make it to Ga., I'll gladly buy you a beer.
Thank you for your service.
*(after all, some of these demented old folk still remember how to kill you with a spoon!)
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Maj Michael StClair
CPT Brent Ferguson - I once heard that and Army Brigadier General had described the Marine Corps as not a real military organization, but rather a cult. Perhaps that may appear to be true to those who are not Marines as being true. I , as a Marine (retired) don't view my response as being draconian, and I suspect that other Marines would not either. The Marine Corps sets standards and expects Marines to follow those standards. It does not matter what you status is (active, retired, former), if you going to wear the uniform which represents the Marine Corps as a whole then wear it correctly. And yes the Marine Corps is rigid that rigidity is what makes the Marine Corps the institution it is, and insures that the mission is completed - that mission being to :"Seek out, close with, and destroy the enemy by fire and maneuver, and to repel his ground assault by fire and close combat" - including those with spoons. Have a nice day Captain - if we ever run into each other I will buy you a beer.
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CPT Brent Ferguson
That was a well written response. I enjoyed your humor as well.
Perhaps my compassion for the old guy comes from having seen how frail he was on the video the day the photograph above was taken - that or from having worked too long with old Marines and other servicemen in the local nursing homes. After watching him, I had the impression he would be in one soon. I don't think the uniform will present an issue again next year, regardless... But you never know, you Marines are pretty tough!
Perhaps my compassion for the old guy comes from having seen how frail he was on the video the day the photograph above was taken - that or from having worked too long with old Marines and other servicemen in the local nursing homes. After watching him, I had the impression he would be in one soon. I don't think the uniform will present an issue again next year, regardless... But you never know, you Marines are pretty tough!
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Maj Michael StClair
CPT Brent Ferguson - Brent perhaps I came down just a tad hard on you this morning. it was very early, and I am very old, and therefore some what cranky early on. There are so many inconsistencies in this guys uniform that its difficult to know where to begin to list them. I get the feeling that perhaps he isn't a Marine at all but playing make believe (I don't know that for a fact, just a feeling on my part) - I mean he made some pretty basic mistakes. That being said I would suppose the initial symptoms of dementia would cloud the mind and erase memories which could explain his uniform discrepancies. All that being said I would still offer "if you going to wear the uniform which represents the Marine Corps as a whole then wear it correctly." Thank you for your service, and even more thanks for helping and working with "old Marines and other servicemen in the local nursing homes". Semper Fi Brent.
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Suspended Profile
This possible reminds me of the poor guy that was unnecessarily harangued over in Harrisburg.
I'm very much against Stolen Valor, but with all the people trying to scam using it, I prefer to focus my concern and my outrage on those. I've noticed, particularly with older veterans, that they often become very distant from uniform regulations. I've no desire to needlessly shame someone and demand their DD214 merely on the fact that they're not up on the order of the medals they've earned, or can't afford to buy larger replacements. The mini medals are less expensive for vets on fixed income.
I know there will be those who vehemently disagree, but after a while, the stolen valor thing makes us look more ridiculous than the posers. When I see videos of well-intentioned guys harassing posers at shopping malls, taking it too far with language and harassment, forgetting that while playing dress up may or may not always be a crime, harassment in most jurisdictions is. We need to climb down off our self-righteous high-horse and remember to comport ourselves with dignity befitting our own service. Set the example that the posers are violating! Because we burn our own credibility when we cross those lines, or when we go after a veteran with an honorable service record because medals are out of place.
Respect your elders, an old school American practice, assume innocence until proven guilty, a fundamental principle of our justice system that starts eluding us when we try these guys in social media, and only resorting to shame AFTER its been fully verified that they are lying or embellishing.
I'm very much against Stolen Valor, but with all the people trying to scam using it, I prefer to focus my concern and my outrage on those. I've noticed, particularly with older veterans, that they often become very distant from uniform regulations. I've no desire to needlessly shame someone and demand their DD214 merely on the fact that they're not up on the order of the medals they've earned, or can't afford to buy larger replacements. The mini medals are less expensive for vets on fixed income.
I know there will be those who vehemently disagree, but after a while, the stolen valor thing makes us look more ridiculous than the posers. When I see videos of well-intentioned guys harassing posers at shopping malls, taking it too far with language and harassment, forgetting that while playing dress up may or may not always be a crime, harassment in most jurisdictions is. We need to climb down off our self-righteous high-horse and remember to comport ourselves with dignity befitting our own service. Set the example that the posers are violating! Because we burn our own credibility when we cross those lines, or when we go after a veteran with an honorable service record because medals are out of place.
Respect your elders, an old school American practice, assume innocence until proven guilty, a fundamental principle of our justice system that starts eluding us when we try these guys in social media, and only resorting to shame AFTER its been fully verified that they are lying or embellishing.
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