Posted on Nov 3, 2013
CPT Senior Instructor
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I have been dealing with this a lot. I have seen both ways. As per AR 600–25 the junior person should salute. I see a 1LT senior to a 2LT and I salute them. I have seen many instances where this does not happen. Most see a LT as a LT regardless of being a 1st or 2nd. How do you all feel about this?

"B. All Army personnel in uniform are required to salute when they meet and recognize persons entitled to the salute. Salutes will be exchanged between officers (commissioned and warrant) and enlisted personnel, and with personnel of the Armed Forces of the United States..."
Edited >1 y ago
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1SG Michael Blount
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IRT saluting -

1. You're saluting the position that person holds, NOT the person him/herself.

2. As long as the Army has a rank structure, there are going to be superiors and subordinates.  Subordinates initiate the salute until recognized/returned by the superior. 

This comes with the territory. Get used to it. We have wayyyy bigger fish to fry.

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CPT Senior Instructor
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This is very true. I think this comes with the lack of experience of the LTs. I always question why would you not and I am looked at like i am the crazy one.
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MSgt Ryan Tanner
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Hands down it needs to happen. It's all part of paying your dues. It's part of our customs and courtesies based on time-honored traditions. I came into the service as an E-1 and we've all joked about "Rank amongst junior ranks is like honor amongst prostitutes...it don't exist". However this tradition needs to stand firm against the entropy of the rest of the system...just this SNCO's stance.
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SFC Randy Purham
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Yes! 2LTs should salute 1LTs. Regardless of the "peer-relationship" its a respect for not only the person, but their rank/position.  It goes the same for SSGs being at Parade Rest for SFCs/MSGs, etc. PV1s should be at Parade Rest for PV2, so on and so forth.  But, we have gotten away from those traditions with the idea that it detracts from the "mission" or its "petty". Thank you for your question and I have read most of the responses and I agree as well.
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SSG Robert Burns
SSG Robert Burns
>1 y
You stand at parade rest for NCO's not Jr. Soldiers. See my post on this from earlier for the references. How is that so many people dont know this?
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Capt 57 Wps Chief, Stan/Eval
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No, a lieutenant is a lieutenant.  
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MAJ Infantry Officer
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CPT Lawler, this is an excellent argument. How much thought did you put into that statement?
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Capt 57 Wps Chief, Stan/Eval
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It doesn't require much thought. The only reason the title lieutenant got broken down into 2LT and 1LT was to allow a signifiicant pay raise for the member.
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MAJ Regimental Fire Support Officer
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2LTs do Not salute 1LTs period. This is the standard. You should be more concerned with helping each other become CPTs than trying to play big man with the silver bar.
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SSG Instructor/Writer
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>1 y
<p>Sir,</p><p>&nbsp;With all due respect but that is the wrong answer. That is the problem with today's army. We have double standards that apply when it's convenient for individuals. Its makes our jobs as Noncommissioned Officers harder when we enforce standards and the very people who help write these standards and regulations thumb their nose at it and we are left to explain to these young hooahs why officers act the way they do. I've seen battalion CSM's and SGM's stand at parade rest when they are addressing the brigade, division or even the corps CSM so wheres the disconnect? Im inclined to believe based off of your statement Major that officers dont have to follow the rules. Again I mean no disrespect but this touches my heart as a Noncommissioned Officer whose responsibility is to train and lead soldiers and show them what right looks like. I digress.</p>
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MAJ Infantry Officer
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>1 y
NCO's enforce standards MAJ Lendo, so could you please inform SSG Burns where to find this standard so that he can begin enforcing it? &nbsp;I'm sure he would appreciate it.
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PO2 Orlando Sims, MPA
PO2 Orlando Sims, MPA
>1 y
Does this standard apply when in the presence of enlisted members?
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LTC Multifunctional Logistician
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Everyone is piling on, giving other examples between NCO's and LT's, it's not the same. &nbsp; LT's don't salute LT's. &nbsp;Unless on parade, change of command. &nbsp;EM's play games with this kind of stuff all day long, and I see the same thing here.
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SSG Richard Stevens
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yes every officer should salute each other out of respect
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SrA Aircraft Armament Systems
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Per regulation yes, the junior officer needs to render a salute. Now if there are some personal reason why you don't that's between you both.
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1SG Glenn Aldrich
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I think that most of the people posting here are hypocrites. How many enlisted soldiers salute their platoon leader every time they come around in the motor pool? Not much. This should not be in discussion. Officers have their own mojo when dealing with each other. Most of it bull. When meeting each other, they fawn and stroke each other, then the senior asks the junior officer's first name and that is that.


Standards are standards and NCOs if you are going to bash the officers for them not saluting each other at these levels, then you had better be saluting them every time you see one (whether it was for the first time or two seconds ago). For that matter, how many of you NCOs keep your seat when an officer asks you a question? Probably all of you.


Customs and courtesies may seem archaic to some, but for those that have worn the uniform, shed the blood and stared the demon in the face, they are sacred. This type of discussion only hurts the military.


On another point, the phrases of affection such as "Chief" and "Top", as a First Sergeant I understood that "Top" was a term of endearment. It meant that my soldiers respected me as the Top Sergeant in the company. If a soldier was not calling my "Top" I needed to find out what was going on. It is like father and Dad. Anyone can be a father, but it takes a special person to be a Dad. The same goes for First Sergeants. It has a customary precedence.


Great units do the small things right. That is what I was always taught. Many of the small things are rendering courtesies when appropriate, doing PT correctly, drill & ceremonies and conducting police call. Almost too often, these things are put to the side because of mission orientation or some other excuse. D&C teaches soldiers to be a part of a team and organization. PT helps soldiers not only cope physically with the rigors of battle, but mentally. Customs and courtesies re-enforces a soldier's place in the unit and who's orders they are to follow. Police call stems from the need to keep your area clean for sanitation reasons that translate into the field environment, not for beauty sake.


Live by the regulations and customs of the military, do the small things well, and the big missions will take care of themselves because the basic skills are the most important to mission success.

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SSG Kevin McCulley
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I am amazed and surprised by the different view points between Commissioned and Non-Commissioned officers. I think perhaps that the NCO Corps takes the martial aspect of the Army far more seriously. That isn't necessarily a bad thing. I think it is acceptable for the officers to do what they want among themselves, however all of us with any rank of consequence must exemplify the standard around Jr. Enlisted. I think it is also important for the Commissioned corps to back up the NCOs when they try and enforce these traditions, customs, and courtesies on the n00bs and each other. I had a (staff) Captain that I have a tremendous amount of respect for as a leader and a man sum it up like this, "Sergeant, I don't give a damn if you or any other NCO fails to salute me.. but Privates, that is a different story. They will salute me and render the greeting of the day to you. It isn't a matter of rank or authority. If the Privates don't respect our authority, we have no authority." That being said, I think it is vital for soldiers of all ranks to show this formal respect to Commanders at all times. I also never failed to salute this Captain not just because protocol requires it, but because of the immeasurable respect I hold for him. 
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SSG Kevin McCulley
SSG Kevin McCulley
11 y
According to you sir.. I've seen more senior officers agree and disagree with you on this thread. So, absolutes are only appropriate if Commanding is at the bottom of your sigblock. :)
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SSG Kevin McCulley
SSG Kevin McCulley
11 y
So Officers can just 'decide' to change a custom?
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SSG Kevin McCulley
SSG Kevin McCulley
11 y
Sir, I counter with the fact that PV2s can't order men to die, and enlistedmen are told their traditions aren't how the army works with regularity. I would be squeemish about comparing any commissioned grade with that of a Private. They tend to do well enough of that by themselves.

Perhaps we just take it more seriously.. after all, we are the ones who actually have to put the giblets in a bag after bad decisions.
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SSG Kevin McCulley
SSG Kevin McCulley
11 y
Then again.. I'm just the cynical old SSG. RP! has been a revelation to me on how alien the enlisted and commissioned mindsets, cultures, and outlook on the martial lifestyle are. It isn't anyone fault or anything. I think we just tend to look at officers as being just like us with a different job scope and a lot more responsibility.
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MSgt Norman Chaney
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I will never forget 1Lt Forman at the Utapao BWS.  He made Capt and for 9 months he still answered the phone "Loootenant Foreman speakin'" We would correct him and he would say "Oh, that's right, I got promoted."  Was always terrified I would see his name on the O-6 list.

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