Posted on May 28, 2014
PO1 Master-at-Arms
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Should army and marines consolidate
Think objectively. Traditions, camaraderie aside. Both are somewhat similarly more combat-oriented than USN or USAF. Answer practically without putting down either one of them.

PS: Yes, some are taunting about USN and USAF consolidation or Air Force return to Army Air Corps. My take on that if it's practical, lessen bureaucracy, and make for a smoother communications pipeline amongst the DoD components, why not? Again, camaraderie and traditions aside for a min.
Posted in these groups: Cf1cbe80 TroopsAmerican flag soldiers SoldiersDod color DoD
Edited >1 y ago
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Responses: 1533
PO1 Leading Petty Officer (Lpo)
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This is the same question that was proposed in the late 1930s...the Marines proved their need in the pacific campaign based on their proficiency at the amphibious assault. Just because the Army can do it too, it's not their primary training. Each branch has overlaps, but how they conduct themselves in their roles is why we can't lose the Marines.
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GySgt Communications Chief
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Lots of hot women in the Army... I say yes.
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SGT Infantryman (Airborne)
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And there it is, another intelligent answer from a Marine...
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SSgt Tim Ricci
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The raising of that flag on Suribachi means a Marine Corps for the next 500 years.
—Secretary of the Navy James Forrestal to LtGen H. M. Smith, as the Marines raised the flag on Mt. Suribachi over Iwo Jima, 23 Feb. 1945
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SSgt Tim Ricci
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Having proudly served in both the Army and then the Marine Corps I am going to offer my opinion in this matter. The Army could handle the Mission of the Marines; with that being said the mission should not be all Army (with lack of better words). The Fleet Marine Army mission would still be seagoing as it is currently, with a MEUSOC / MAGTAF always at sea, transported by the Navy and ready to enter into any environment it should be called upon to do. The Organization should be a command of its own with 3 active and 1 reserve Divisions as well as Specific Aviation Assets that are specialized in that area of expertise. The MOS’s should have a Specific Marine Designator and training be the same as the current Marine Training is. All other specialty MOS’s could be absorbed into the current Army layout with detachments to MEUs as needed for mission requirements. Okay now, with this layout there would still be a Marine Corps but it would be a smaller specialized entity in itself dependent on the service and logistics of the Army in particular. Just like being Airborne, Ranger or SF it would be another specialty in the Army under its own command. This analogy is just a nutshell idea!
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LTC Paul Labrador
LTC Paul Labrador
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SSgt Tim Ricci, nice anaylsis. There are really 3 COA's (each with its own pros and cons) if this were to ever happen:
1) Marines move as a whole from under Navy to Army. While this would put all land combat forces under one umbrella, this doesn't change the status quo very much as far as budgets, politics, etc. Nothing would change except for funding stream and MACOM chain of command.
2) Marines are absorbed but become a specialty in Army that soldiers must voluteer for and receive additional training (similar to Rangers, and Airborne). In this COA, I would put all Marine units under XVIII Airborne Corps to consolidate expiditionary forces. This is kind of what you described.
3) disband Corps altogether and just rotate regular Army infantry units into Marine deployment missions. This one would be the hardest to pull off, but not impossible to do.

Of all 3 I think if it ever were to go down, COA #2 would be the most effective. There would still be siginificant issues that would need to be worked out, such as the interoperability with the Navy.
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PO1 Disaster Survivor Assistance Specialist
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One of the reasons the sea-corporals were created was to protect the CO's of Naval combat ships and obey the orders of that CO without question - something I don't ever see an Army unit leader capable of doing. Rotating Army units in and out of naval support - really? Every time I hear that arguement I laugh because it's usually said by someone who's never spent any real time at sea. Going to sea is not a one-off thing - it's an entirely different world. Rotating army units in and out means every army unit will be counting down the seconds to the moment they get off the ship rather than becoming part and parcel to the life of being at sea, which will diminish the army unit's use to the Navy.

Besides, why would I want a specialized army unit on my ship - I have the United States Marine Corps!!!!
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SSgt Tim Ricci
SSgt Tim Ricci
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PO1 George Medley, The Marines have not had that particular duty (Sea Duty) since the late 80s. The MSG (Embassy Duty) or Fast Teams (Marine Corps Security Force) are the only ones I can think about right now. Of course Recruiting and Drill Instuctor Duty But then every service has them.
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Sgt Joseph Baker
Sgt Joseph Baker
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Ever hear of Maritime Pre-Positioning? That's sea duty. The Marine Corps has entire MAGTFs that are special-operations capable. Comparing Drill Sergeants to Drill Instructors is just ridiculous and you know it. The psychological pressure, physical demands, and discipline of the Marine Corps boot camp is much higher than the Army. Just go on YouTube and watch videos of each, and the difference is obvious to anyone.
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SSG Jonathan Appling
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Edited 11 y ago
Yes; A lot of traditional values would still remain. Those are what hold us to our oaths to perform life threatening duty regardless which branch of service we perform.
A consolidation, if performed, would be done mainly to save money in the long term ( -$17 T ) The chain of command/concern could have a consolidation of rank insignia from 83 different insignia of 4 branches down to about 25 in a new consolidated DOD system. How?
A commander is a commander. A lieutenant is an officer. An NCO has been there and done that .NCO's lead men in their equipment to accomplish the mission . Any personnel are all involved in following orders to do their MOS in the highest proficiency they can be proud of doing . The only equipment change would be from one location to another . People are still responsible for their type of function they perform.
The biggest change in a new DOD could be a deployability status of the individual military service member. A Marine could be anyone on assignment overseas from the USA . While the Army is a total conglomerate of all land operations CONUS .I do not know much about naval operations , guess that a port is a type of naval base ? There would not need to be a change in its leadership .
Recruits could enter the military through the Basic Training/BT service land phase, aerial support phase , naval operations , logistical support phase. Once assigned to go overseas for combat or duty assignment, the Marine Qualification Course could be used.
The Naval forces mission and capabilities would remain intact except the only change would be that the Air Force and Navy would need to be cross trained in port and sea operations to work together to accomplish a sea lift successfully. ( Presently the Navy is in charge when it comes to sea lift ops because they are both the reception and release of aerial support )
[ PS : original thread statement ] The Air Force mission does not need to change , except that all military bases would need some type of airfield & helicopter landing capability. So all your aerial assets would go to the Air Force . This would include any and all present Army pilots of aircraft . Cavalry would become cross trained Airmen into airfield or port security as a deployed Marine . Think grandly, your present pilots would not need to PCS. Just assume a different command structure . Different unit name plate.
We are already combining teams and assigning people across the spectrum to fill combat assignments in needed locations according to their MOS and pay grade.Why? Because the draw down affects everything. Realistically , we do not have the funds to continue operating like we do presently. Please do not take offense to this.
I understand the Air Force and Naval structures would not need to change individual functions. Their duties are inherent to their mission , to support and transport USA assets to location , providing combat service and fire support.
All your MOS duties are specific to that role to accomplish the DOD mission. So MOS specific uniforms and equipment would not need to change, except for camouflage according to the location of deployment.
By combining into one force , multi-faceted such as a diamond, with the prowess we have acquired prestegiously over our history as a nation, we cannot allow which uniform we wear determine how proud we are to serve our nation. All that should be required is the willingness to perform in an honorable manner together in a uniform.
I did have at one point a full Word document written by me to outline the USA DOD consolidation in to 3 combat commands and 1 HQ / support command structure . My research showed me that I could consolidate the entire rank structure from 83 ranks of all 4 service branches down to 25 ranks , dependent on enlisted, NCO , officer , commander status of the individual in a 4 command group structure of organization. The various commands would be MOS related to sea , air , land combat , HQ / support as well as deployability status of whether a personnel is used in expeditionary or occupation and seizure of a TOO. Everything would be deployed according to METL according to mission assignment as directed by the POTUS and JCS . Yes , All the services could be unified by wearing one dress uniform of both genders require specificity, all the MOS uniforms would be able to stay unchanged. There would be 1 pt uniform, 1 combat uniform and 1 garrison uniform issued according to deployability status. And a Marine would be the ones honored to go into combat 1st to bring in the rest of the army to support the mission. Anyone overseas would wear the MEU and garrison service personnel would wear the ACU . I will be needing to rewrite this word document and save a copy offline this time. It is possible to do . Everything in balance, proper timing and in order .
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SGT Antonio G.
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Edited >1 y ago
It's been very interesting reading all the comments here. All the back and forth is fairly entertaining when you consider that every branch is run by the same government. It is like brothers and sisters fighting over who the parents love more. The fact is that we all serve a purpose. Every branch has their best and brightest and by the same token each has their can't get rights. If four combat soldiers who fell in battle were buried side by side would you say that any one gave more than the others or that they each gave their all? We all ball and buster about how much more we have to do or put up with more than the next person, but as soon as you start saying you are better than someone else (or any entity) you just feed that pride train till it derails. No branch is "better" than the others - they all serve a unique purpose that is apparently needful or it would not exist.
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CPT Bde Fire Control Officer
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No, they should not combine. The Marine Corps has the unique ability and training, even their unit organization, to support beach head operations and to maintain a constant strike force capability while out at sea for 365 days a year. The Army has some capabilities which are similar, but better suited for long operations because of logistical support and maintenance assets. If you were to force Marines to operate in a static position for months on end, for example in OIF, you must pair them together with logistical support trains from other services such as the Army. The organization of the Marine corps in a beach head operation is very similar to the idea of a brigade combat team that the Army uses, however it can be deployed on a much smaller scale. Regardless, it has limitations as far as sustainment goes. I think if you combine the forces you lose some of the specialization that goes with them. Here's another intersting though, the Marine Corps acquisitions budget is much smaller than the army. They often wait as a result to procure new equipment until after they see the Army test whatever equipment. An example, the rifling on the 120mm mortars. Essentially it's the same weapon as the Army's, however the rifiling increases accuracy and range. The Marine corps watched the Army buy the smooth bore version, and then requisitioned the Mortar system with improvements made. That's something the Marine corps brings to the fight. I respect the hell out of them, and love working together with them down range, but I think they should remain separate.
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SPC Dale St. Pierre
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the army needs to adopt a lot of how the marines work and operate for discipline and how you move up in rank,if a promotion is automatic why work to get it ? we should also adopt the way you advance in promotion ,like a job skills test . When it comes to advancing to a leadership position how well you do in pt, or school has no bearing on how you perform this task,also promotion boards are udder crap ,some are how well you can remember scores or team members from a football or baseball team? but I digress the over all is no ,we need the specialization each branch brings in. Also the way things are run there would be no checks or balance for misspending of funds.
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1SG Sr. Field Clinical Engineer
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They could be if you keep current leadership within each branch the same and systematically reform training requirements for each mission.
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SGM Public Affairs Senior Enlisted Advisor
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No. The Marines allow the Navy to project land power, it's a specific concept that's proven to be historically sound. When we [the Army] show up we're moving in for the long haul, probably because our adversary(ies) didn't get the message when we sent in the Marines.
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MAJ Infantry Officer
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Yes, I'd just like to bring up oda triple nickle in Afghanistan in late 2001 on the heels of the christians in action team. The army is plenty capable of delivering a quick reaction force worldwide. As a matter of fact, the army could drop an infantry brigade sized force of sof on virtually any location in well under a week. I'm quite confident of it.
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SGM Public Affairs Senior Enlisted Advisor
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The Navy projects land power as an extension of its sea-based force. That has nothing to do with the Army (which holds the distinction of making the first and largest land invasion from the sea). The marines functions are truly Navy-based, excluding the anomaly of Fallujah. There's no reason for the two to become one. When the Army shows up we're moving in and staying because the adversary didn't pay attention when we sent in the Marines :/
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CWO3 Retired
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Sgt Buckner,
The SGM has a point, but less we not forget that the Senior Service is and always will be the Army of the U.S. Plus I was a dependent for 18 years before I became a Marine. (72-94) Ret.
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SGM Public Affairs Senior Enlisted Advisor
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Interesting this would come up as IS takes over in Anbar Province :/
No matter what the politicians or pundits say, no one saw that coming but I'm willing to bet none of us are surprised the Iraqi army ran. Again. Okay, back to the topic, ...
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Cpl Peter Martuneac
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The only reason Marines seem redundant right now is because, for the past 13 years, we've been largely conducting operations that we are not meant to do. We've adapted and overcome many challenges, but Marines are not an occupying force. We're shocktroopers, specially trained to seize a toe hold in enemy territory, usually via amphibious assault, and hold it until the Army can come in with their vastly superior numbers and crush the enemy. That is what we are trained to do and why we have the title Marine. If we found ourselves in a conventional war here soon, you'd once again see Marines going back to their roots and earning our keep in the United States Military.
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Cpl Peter Martuneac
Cpl Peter Martuneac
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Yes, we belong to the Navy, but we're hardly the same Marine Corps we were in 1775 or even a hundred years ago. We're practically our own branch at this point. If anything is going to be done to the Marine Corps, as I suggested, it should be to simply go all the way back to our roots and essentially make us a SF unit in the Navy consisting of only direct-combat MOS's, and have Sailors fill our billets for admin, cooks, air, etc.
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LTC Paul Labrador
LTC Paul Labrador
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That is a realistic option. That is more in line with what the UK does with their Royal Marine Commandos. Read MSG Jeff Anderson's post. It describes another option of putting the Marines under the XVIII Airborne Corps, essentially consolidating all expeditionary/contingency forces under one corps command.
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Cpl Mark McMiller
Cpl Mark McMiller
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As I mentioned above, The Marines do not belong to the Navy. The Department of the Navy oversees both the Marine Corps and the Navy but they are each separate and distinct service branches, each having an autonomous leader, the Marine Corps Commandant and the Chief of Naval Operations, who are equal members of the joint chiefs.
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Capt Jeff S.
Capt Jeff S.
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Cpl Peter Martuneac - We ARE our own branch and we are as independent of the Navy as the Army is from the Air Force. Where there's a Secretary of the Army (a civilian) who controls their budget, and a Secretary of the Air Force (a civilian) who controls their budget, we have one Secretary of the Navy (a civilian) who presides over the Navy Department < < under which the USN AND the USMC fall. We are coequal and we both get our budgets from the same civilian entity (SecNav). Our Commandant does not answer to the CNO.
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