Posted on Apr 7, 2015
CPT Company Commander
17.9K
70
35
0
0
0
Just want to get some thoughts from fellow officers as well as NCO's.

I don't particularly think it's of a huge benefit (mostly because of overall cost, etc etc) but I'm curious to see what others think based on a discussion I had with a few peers.

Would cadets attending basic training give them a better understanding of their Soldiers? Or not?
Posted in these groups: Officers logo OfficersBmts Basic Training
Edited >1 y ago
Avatar feed
Responses: 21
Votes
  • Newest
  • Oldest
  • Votes
MAJ Technical Escort Team Leader
2
2
0
No, they should not be required to attend IET. As stated by others, there are already programs in place to teach cadets/candidates the basics of their military branch. It is not required to enable Officers to relate to the Soldiers with whom they serve.

If you want to know what it is like to be a junior enlisted person I am sure your unit could arrange a Spur Ride or similar event to give you a "day in the life " experience. If you are think Officers need a more solid tactical base, just find a good NCO and ask him for help developing your proficiency at 10-level tasks. I am sure he/she will help you out.
(2)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SSgt Forensic Meteorological Consultant
2
2
0
I am not sure because perhaps the training at OCS would be sufficient.
(2)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SPC Margaret Higgins
1
1
0
I think so. I think that it would make them better leaders. They would know what their soldiers had been through.
(1)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
CW3 Kevin Storm
1
1
0
Having gone to basic training (1982) and WOBC, I would say overall WOBC was harder both mentally and physically. Today's BT's, are to soft and really this would be a waste of time and money. A good percentage that come to us straight out of basic and AIT shortly thereafter lack the resolve to pass a PT test, or stay with in HT&WT. So what would you gain going to enlisted basic? Not much really.
(1)
Comment
(0)
MAJ Operations Officer (S3)
MAJ (Join to see)
>1 y
This is unfortunately a reality. I've had a number of Soldiers come out of OSUT over the years who can't pass an APFT. One had graduated less than 2 weeks prior. To me this indicative of how soft BCT has become, however, not that it's a waste of time. I think if BCT was executed to a higher standard there would be value for all leaders to attend.
(0)
Reply
(0)
CW3 Kevin Storm
CW3 Kevin Storm
>1 y
My own opinion is that we need to get out of the World War two mentality of BT and start to think of it more as a conditioning for towards true soldier development. basic should no longer be 8 weeks, but something along the lines of 4 months. No soldier should leave AIT without a government DVR Lic, and for larger vehicles a CDL or its equivalent.
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
Lt Col Jim Coe
1
1
0
Edited >1 y ago
No. In general new officers come into the Air Force with adequate knowledge and discipline to succeed in their first assignment, which is normally a training school. As a pilot training instructor, I taught students from USAFA, AFROTC, and OTS. After about 8 weeks of training you couldn't tell the difference. The AF Academy and prior enlisted service guys (no female pilots when I taught) had a bit of a head start on understanding the military in general so they handled the stress better for the first few weeks. Everybody else caught up quickly.

I went through ROTC in the 60s. We had academic class two days a week plus a 1.5 hour drill each week for two years; then, academic class three days a week and the same drill during our junior and senior years; and had a 28-day "summer camp" between junior and senior year of college. Summer camp included academics and half a day of physical activity, drill and ceremonies, sports, etc. We went to the range to qualify with the pistol and M16. We had to pass the AF PT test (no snickers from the ground component folks, please). Also got an indoctrination flight in a trainer aircraft (T-33). We lived in dormitories and had inspections. I roomed with a guy from Texas A&M. We quickly struck a deal, I taught him how to wear an AF uniform (the A&M Corps of Cadets wore Army uniforms) and he made sure the room would pass inspection. The only thing we missed out on was having a MTI yelling at us for days and days. Not sure that was all that big of a loss. Overall it was a learning experience.
(1)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
CPT Tony Rose
1
1
0
Having been on both sides of the coin (enlist 8 years, officer 12) I can say that a Soldier needs to learn to lead from the ground up. The most pure leadership position is that infantry team leader who says follow me as he assaults an enemy BP. The higher up one goes the more tone becomes a manager of resources. Great staff officers often find themselves in leadership positions, as a reward for great staff work and management, for which they are unsuited for. The absolute best officers I ever worked with were all prior enlisted West Pointers. A prior enlisted officer knows what it is to follow and lead as a matter of practical real world experience.
(1)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
Operations Officer (S3)
1
1
0
I'll start by stating that all members of the Canadian Armed Forces attend some form of basic military qualification that teaches the essential information and combat skills that will be required just to exist as a member of the CAF (regardless of branch or trade/occupation). There are different forms of basic: a regular force version that runs for 16-weeks, a stripped down 4-week version for the reserves, and an officer variant of each course that has the same skill sets but adds leadership and mentoring training. However, even recruit officers are given the same training and, to a degree, treatment as their non-commissioned colleagues. The instructors are non-commissioned members (usually MCpls and SGTs) and can be expected to train the officers just as efficiently and well as non-commissioned recruits, especially with an eye towards the fact that each of the officer recruits may one day be in command of their former instructor.
(1)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
1
1
0
The "Common Ground" concept makes sense at first glance, however 3-4 months out of a 4 year enlistment is such a small part of what enlisted do, the benefits wouldn't be there.

There is already A LOT of mirroring going on between the two programs, however they are tailored for the specific needs of the Officer/Enlisted. In reality, OCS is the officer boot camp. There are both 3~ months long, they are both followed by combat training (MCT/SOI vs TBS) and then by MOS schools.

What would an officer gain by going through bootcamp? Then compare it to how we would have to adjust OCS once the assumption is made that everyone went through bootcamp. I can't say the exact overlap, but it's sizable in just basic Marine Skills.
(1)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
LCDR Vice President
1
1
0
I have also done both but I would not go back and do enlisted bootcamp again nor would I go through Chief's initiation twice (crossing the line in the same bucket). NSI and spending two years full time in college all day long but the other activities were once in a lifetime.
(1)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
CPT Teacher
0
0
0
I loved Basic Training. It was extremely helpful in understanding how all Soldiers get started and a bit of what it's like to be enlisted. Now that I'm on "the dark side" it has helped me bond with my Soldiers that we have at least something in common with each other. This is especially true for new Privates in my platoon. It humanizes me a bit.
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
PO1 Staff It
0
0
0
My honest opinion is that a better option might be to require all personnel to start enlisenlisted, then receive a commission through an OCS type program. I know this is impractical and I am going to catch flack but I have seen on a common trait among those officers whom are direct assention, not prior enlisted, lose connection with their enlisted. While this is not true across the board, it is fairly common. I cannot quantify how this affects operation but I feel moral among those serving with mustang officers is a little higher and those officers are often much more in touch with their enlisted subordinates.

This also gives all military personnel a level of comradeship across all ranked.
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small

Join nearly 2 million former and current members of the US military, just like you.