Posted on May 10, 2016
Should DOD create a payscale for Enlisted with Degrees?
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Alot of enlisted have Bachelors, Masters, and PHDs, often times they have to make decisions on crossing over to the Commisioned Officer side or Warrant, but we all know those die hard NCOs who do to their love for the NCO Corps won't make the change, I say lets reward them besides promotions
NCOs
Military Pay
Education
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 36
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There already is one...it's called the Officer scale. There are many of us enlisted with degrees (sometimes higher ones that our Officer counterparts) but that doesn't mean we should get paid more. The Officers' level of responsibility is not typically matched on the enlisted side. One of the questions I hate the most is 'Why didn't/don't you become an Officer?" as it shows a bit of contempt for being enlisted. There is nothing wrong with having a degree and being enlisted, but that doesn't mean I should be paid more because I do. The point of our profession is to defend freedom, and part of that is the opportunity to choose your own profession. We all chose ours, and if you feel that you don't get paid enough for what you do, perhaps seek a change in your life/career.
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SSG Vik Polivka
SSG (Join to see) - While I don't agree with the higher pay for a degree, especially in my case, since most of my degree was funded by the Army during service, I have to agree with the comment stating that ultimate responsibility is only on paper. I've seen (In the Army, I was prior service Navy before joining the Army) Officers (no, not all, calm down) get away with blaming a NCO. While I prefer the Army culture, that is one issue that I noticed. The Navy truly does (did) hold Officers responsible, no matter what. You're in Command, it's on you.
I wouldn't say there is a need to disband the Officer Corps. I hate power point, writing OPORDERs, and dealing with travel vouchers (DTS), someone needs to be there for that. Oh, yeah, and that whole baseline of education, training, and big picture leadership is a good idea, too.
I wouldn't say there is a need to disband the Officer Corps. I hate power point, writing OPORDERs, and dealing with travel vouchers (DTS), someone needs to be there for that. Oh, yeah, and that whole baseline of education, training, and big picture leadership is a good idea, too.
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CSM (Join to see)
While I understand ya'll's position, I'd ask can you cite any specific examples of NCOs being held accountable for the failure or inactions of their Officers? I have seen personally (as I'm sure many have on here) CPTs being handed a Statement of Charges at change of command time. I've yet to see a 1SG or be charged. Until I see some verified examples, I'm going to chalk this up to the rumor mill.
I ask you also...have you ever been in charge of those in combat? Did you have to send people to do things they may not return from? If so, how many...a squad? Think of that BN CDR or CO CDR who have that responsibility for incredibly more soldiers.
One must consider the entry requirements for the enlisted side. They are relatively low, with a correspondingly high pay scale. How many people two years out of high school working blue collar jobs do you know that make 40K a year in pay and benefits? I went to college before joining the Army, and my friends that did not join did not make that starting out even though they had a Bachelors degree.
I ask you also...have you ever been in charge of those in combat? Did you have to send people to do things they may not return from? If so, how many...a squad? Think of that BN CDR or CO CDR who have that responsibility for incredibly more soldiers.
One must consider the entry requirements for the enlisted side. They are relatively low, with a correspondingly high pay scale. How many people two years out of high school working blue collar jobs do you know that make 40K a year in pay and benefits? I went to college before joining the Army, and my friends that did not join did not make that starting out even though they had a Bachelors degree.
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SGM Mikel Dawson
When I first saw this thread, this was the first thought coming to my mind - CSM (Join to see)you beat me to it!!
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SGT (Join to see)
I think we are all missing the question here. I don't think the pay scale should reflect the officer side exactly, however, it only makes sense to have a sub-scale for enlisted soldiers with at least a Bachelor's degree -- especially if they earned it outside of the Army. That is my opinion of course and it is a biased one: I joined with a BA and decided enlisted was right for me for various reasons. I believe a four year degree definitely has a positive effect on a soldiers ability and performance and should therefore be reflected in his or her payscale.
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If they want to get paid more for their degree, let them apply for a warrant or commission. If you start paying Soldiers more for getting a degree where does it stop? Should a CPT with a PhD get paid more than a CPT with a BS or Masters?
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I share the majority opinion and say no for a couple of reasons.
1. If you're a 31B1 with a PhD in history ... how does that help the team accomplish the mission?
2. We've all met them ... the overeducated idiot. One's BS degree may in fact be a degree in BS ... so again, how does that help the team accomplish the mission?
The best case scenario is you prove yourself, earn rank and earn the pay grade appropriate to the E, W or O grade. Should the Peter principle comes to fruition, then hopefully the respective Chains of Command takes appropriate action.
1. If you're a 31B1 with a PhD in history ... how does that help the team accomplish the mission?
2. We've all met them ... the overeducated idiot. One's BS degree may in fact be a degree in BS ... so again, how does that help the team accomplish the mission?
The best case scenario is you prove yourself, earn rank and earn the pay grade appropriate to the E, W or O grade. Should the Peter principle comes to fruition, then hopefully the respective Chains of Command takes appropriate action.
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Capt (Join to see)
Degrees defined - BS We all know what that means.
MS - More of the same
Phd - Piled higher and deeper.
OK Folks, just kidding a little.
MS - More of the same
Phd - Piled higher and deeper.
OK Folks, just kidding a little.
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I would say it should be treated more like the bonus system if the degree is relevant to your MOS. Example: If a medic goes out and gets his AS or BS as a Paramedic, the should qualify for a bonus for that.
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Pay is based on the job. Degrees enable a person to obtain a job which pays more. One should not be paid more than their counterparts unless they are out performing their counterparts.
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LTC (Join to see)
SSG (Join to see) You are absolutely right. But that seems to be another topic of discussion such as responsibilities vs. pay grade.
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CSM (Join to see)
A 1SG and Company Commander do have similar roles, but with a few key differences. The Commander is the one ultimately responsible for the members of their Company. Yes, 1SGs are also, but not to the same extent. 1SGs aren't typically held financially responsible for lost equipment, but a CO is.
SSG David Winkler you seem a bit bitter that you don't make enough money. Please don't pursue a commission just to make more money. The military isn't a get rich kind of career, but building wealth (even on the enlisted side) is possible. I believe as enlisted we get paid quite well (especially considering the entry requirements and benefits associated with military service).
SSG David Winkler you seem a bit bitter that you don't make enough money. Please don't pursue a commission just to make more money. The military isn't a get rich kind of career, but building wealth (even on the enlisted side) is possible. I believe as enlisted we get paid quite well (especially considering the entry requirements and benefits associated with military service).
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CPL (Join to see)
So what about combat arms? They risk more than the Joe who stays stateside and is a mechanic or works in an office. Would you consider them to be worth more? Or less?
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Capt (Join to see)
SSG (Join to see) - The question had nothing to do with the level of job responsibility. It asked if two people doing the same job should receive different pay for doing it. The answer is no unless one is being compensated for doing it better.
Way back in time a teacher I had (He was one of the best I ever had) had a Normal Teaching Diploma) He was asked what he thought about other teachers with degrees, advanced degree eyc. being paid more.
His answer nailed the answer to the question.
He said "I think we have too many degrees and not enough masters".
Way back in time a teacher I had (He was one of the best I ever had) had a Normal Teaching Diploma) He was asked what he thought about other teachers with degrees, advanced degree eyc. being paid more.
His answer nailed the answer to the question.
He said "I think we have too many degrees and not enough masters".
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Your point is well intentioned, but I don't agree. I enlisted WITH 2 Bachelors degrees, knowing full well that I wanted the job I wanted at the rank I would receive (E4 with degree) when I enlisted; nothing more. And yes, a lot--probably most--of the senior enlisted obtain degrees during their military career, but as others have said, we signed up to do a job, and just because some of us have degrees, does not mean it is the degree in-and-of itself that warrants higher pay.
Those who want more pay need to rank up; whether that means hitting those lofty senior NCO ranks, or go Warrant or Commissioned. It's the choice we make.
Those who want more pay need to rank up; whether that means hitting those lofty senior NCO ranks, or go Warrant or Commissioned. It's the choice we make.
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It is an interesting idea, for sure. Will it upset the current system and anger those who climbed the ranks the old-fashioned way? Definitely. But it should be noted that the private sector does this already, and could be a solution to challenges faced by the military in training and retaining troops for high-demand or highly-technical fields like Cyber or Intel.
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I have no regrets in the path I chose. While I did consider going OCS a few times throughout my career, I knew that I could best serve the Army by staying enlisted. I can tell you that I know for a fact that I left the Army better than I found it by teaching, coaching, and mentoring the young Soldiers under my responsibility and by helping guide my peers and the junior officers either over or near me. I never once thought about being paid more because of my degree and wouldn't change a thing if I could do it all over again.
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I think that is a valid question. When I was enlisted, we had a GySgt with a masters from Cornell..he didn't want to be an officer.
If we want adaptive/innovative leaders (and the Army says that we do), I think incentivizing education is a good idea.
If we want adaptive/innovative leaders (and the Army says that we do), I think incentivizing education is a good idea.
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