Posted on May 14, 2014
Should military courtesy be required in RallyPoint?
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For example, should enlisted personnel address higher ranking officers as "Sir" in discussions? Or is courtesy assumed? Do you think veterans "exempt" from courtesy?
Customs and Courtesies
RallyPoint
Policy
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 89
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Professional courtesy (not necessarily military courtesy) should be encouraged (not required) in any professional networking social site. By this I mean:
1. Clear, concise, and accurate statements / arguments.
2. Fact based statements / arguments vs emotion based opinions.
3. Vigorous debate on arguments vs attacks on a person.
4. Comprehensive and well thought out arguments vs redundant talking points that do not advance the conversation / thread.
1. Clear, concise, and accurate statements / arguments.
2. Fact based statements / arguments vs emotion based opinions.
3. Vigorous debate on arguments vs attacks on a person.
4. Comprehensive and well thought out arguments vs redundant talking points that do not advance the conversation / thread.
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MSgt Kevin McNulty
Good points...but misses HIS point. Believe his concern is about how to address each other.
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COL Jason Smallfield, PMP, CFM, CM
Agreed but proper salutations is a symptom. The more important issue is overall professionalism within the forum. If we have the latter then we will have the former but not necessarily visa versa.
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Eric Harshberger
Members of the Comments of the Response:
I believe this is a relatively civil forum, and is pretty much public. When making a statement on the internet, one is given the formalities that are truly due via the quality of program in the formatting of the website. Most of the military customs and courtesies I have learned are applicable in scenarios of direct communication and/or physical action. And since, points to be made here are of a military subject and whereas COMSEC is not feasible; I do agree with Colonel Smallfield that professional courtesy should be encouraged.
-I would appreciate riposte over the validity of my comment on COMSEC in RP.
I believe this is a relatively civil forum, and is pretty much public. When making a statement on the internet, one is given the formalities that are truly due via the quality of program in the formatting of the website. Most of the military customs and courtesies I have learned are applicable in scenarios of direct communication and/or physical action. And since, points to be made here are of a military subject and whereas COMSEC is not feasible; I do agree with Colonel Smallfield that professional courtesy should be encouraged.
-I would appreciate riposte over the validity of my comment on COMSEC in RP.
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I don't extend military courtesy because I think I "have to" online, I do it because it's what feels right.
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MSgt John McGowan
Maj. Sir i agree with you, I have always done it because it just feels tight. After I got out I ran into my old CO and he had retired also. When I called him by his rank he said to call him by name. It just didn't feel right. Coarse I was raised in the South and taught Sir and Mamn. I still use it.
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When I read questions like this, I think that someone must have really ticked someone off for this to even have to be a discussion topic. Some things are just common sense, Captain Obvious and don't need discussion.
As an 11 year veteran, do I go out of my way to say Sir, ma'am, Chief, etc? No, I don't. Am I a brat about it? No, I'm not. I'm courteous and polite, and I use titles in conversation when/where they feel appropriate, but I'm not going to use those titles when it doesn't feel like it's a natural flow of the conversation.
As an 11 year veteran, do I go out of my way to say Sir, ma'am, Chief, etc? No, I don't. Am I a brat about it? No, I'm not. I'm courteous and polite, and I use titles in conversation when/where they feel appropriate, but I'm not going to use those titles when it doesn't feel like it's a natural flow of the conversation.
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SSgt (Join to see)
I tell you, I just want to punkslap some of these guys coming in here posing as veterans and talking to SM and Veterans as if they had a higher rank.
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PO3 (Join to see)
Well, I also think that some SM need to realize that for those of us veterans who did not make a career out of the service and instead made a career elsewhere, your rank doesn't mean as much to me as it did when I was active duty. Sure, I respect everyone as a professional courtesy, regardless of rank, and I'm pleased to say that for the most part, I feel like everyone in here has treated me the same way. I'll be honest, when I first joined the site, I wondered how I would be treated - I wondered if it was going to be "Oh, well, don't pay any attention to her, she's "just" a PO3." Correction. I WAS a PO3, but now I'm a very successful civilian, and I attribute alot of my success to the discipline I learned while in the service.
If, however, some fresh out of college 20-something year old officer on here tried to talk crap to me ... 1) it wouldn't be very professional of that officer, but 2) to use one of your terms, SSgt, I'd probably have to punkslap them. :D
If, however, some fresh out of college 20-something year old officer on here tried to talk crap to me ... 1) it wouldn't be very professional of that officer, but 2) to use one of your terms, SSgt, I'd probably have to punkslap them. :D
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CMDCM Gene Treants
PO3 (Join to see) As much as I want to believe you Amanda, you are much to polite and ladylike to ever Punkslap anyone. But I would gladly do it for you - I remember the words even if I seldom use them anymore! :-)
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PO1 Jimm Mooney
NOt sure that Rank should have anything to do with anything, on here...if you are no longer serving. My highest rank was E-6...But served as Division Office, more than once...for over a year at times. Sometimes, that position was normally held by an O-3 or higher. Since leaving the military in 1987 I have done a variety of things, and have owend my own business for a number of years and have had people working for me.....Does that mean I outrank someone who works for someone else (including ex Officers)? I have rubbed elbows with some of the finest Flag Officers I have ever known (0-5 and above) both during my time in the service as an enlisted, and since I became a Veteran.....Does that make me better than any of you, regardless of rank?...or does that make any of you better than me because of Previous Rank or College degree?....NO!!! It just means that you went a different path than I did to get where you are today.......and...frankly some of the officer ranks and even senior enlisted ranks that I crossed paths with during my time in both the Army & the Navy, were not worth the time of day......and probably still aren't today as "Civilians". During my time in the military, I had to address with the proper "courtesy" due them because of rank...as a "Civilian", I do not.....Unless I think they are worthy of it.
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Required? Not really. Observed? Absolutely.
Even though I'm "retired" from the military, I still observe the customs and courtesies to those in uniform.
I'm just "Rocky" now, however I still call a Chief a chief, unless I called him by his first name before he was promoted. And, I still call officers "Sir".
Even though I'm "retired" from the military, I still observe the customs and courtesies to those in uniform.
I'm just "Rocky" now, however I still call a Chief a chief, unless I called him by his first name before he was promoted. And, I still call officers "Sir".
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SPC Andrew McDonough
I believe in being respectful; but military courtesy no. If I see a 40/50+ year old I'll probably call him sir. But if I see a guy roughly my age that is an E-6 I'm not going to lock up in parade rest lol. But, I am a Specialist after all lol.
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MSgt (Join to see)
I work with a retired 2 Star and he keeps telling me to call him by his first name. Uh, that is not going to happen. Hell, I salute him out of respect and honor.
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By military courtesy do you mean like saluting 1LT's? (you knew it was coming folks...didn't you)
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SSG Robert Burns
I would love to delete it. But I think pretty soon all participants in this thread will start to receive hazard duty pay.
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SFC William Swartz Jr
Down-voted because you dragged the horse's carcass into another discussion :-P
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CMSgt James Nolan
Wait, I am confused by what SSG Burns said. What do you mean? 2nd Lts have to salute 1st Lts? I lost track of what the question was. Hahaha.
Courtesy and professionalism should be the stock and trade of the service. Once you are out/retired and have moved on, those traits should continue to be a part of your life. However, when you then "choose" to show someone respect it would be due to their having earned it. The military will always be a part of my life, but I will only be in the military for a part of my life (albeit a large part).
When I leave, I can only hope that I have earned the respect of my peers, leaders and troops, and when I go, I hope to show that the traditions of my service carry on!
Courtesy and professionalism should be the stock and trade of the service. Once you are out/retired and have moved on, those traits should continue to be a part of your life. However, when you then "choose" to show someone respect it would be due to their having earned it. The military will always be a part of my life, but I will only be in the military for a part of my life (albeit a large part).
When I leave, I can only hope that I have earned the respect of my peers, leaders and troops, and when I go, I hope to show that the traditions of my service carry on!
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Required? I'd say no, it isn't REQUIRED. HOWEVER, the users of this site are, as a general rule, passionate about their service, their branches, their military heritage, and improving themselves and others, both personally and professionally. That being said, should an individual 'cross the line' so to speak, they will most certainly be called out by their fellow RP members.
This is a self-policing site for the most part and I believe it should stay that way.
This is a self-policing site for the most part and I believe it should stay that way.
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I'm sorry guys but once you finish you term or retire, the World doesn’t care if you were an E-4 or an O-6. You're a veteran. Period. If you have been out for years and still feel the need to be addressed by your rank, then I am sorry for you.
If you want to limit Rally Point to active duty folks only, make the rank mandatory. I think the other veterans will leave.
If you want to limit Rally Point to active duty folks only, make the rank mandatory. I think the other veterans will leave.
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People should be respectful because its the right thing to do. If you are on here expecting people to kiss your ass, maybe you arent getting enough of that at home. This is a social network. I expect to be treated like a human. I dont feel the need to be reminded of my rank regularly. I know what and who I am. BUT these discussions SHOULD be professional and respectful.
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I think courtesy should be assumed without the "Sir" "Ma'am" or enlisted rank being addressed. This is not a work environment, it is a social setting and should be treated as such. As far as veterans go, well, I am a veteran and although I don't always use the formal courtesy of rank I do in certain situations. It really depends on my relationship with them. If it's more personal then I keep it friendly, if it's not then I will use it to show my respect for them.
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SGT Brian Watkins
This thread ended very comically. However, I agree with Mrs. Stewart. If I do not know someone, even as a civilian, I will address their rank. In other news, how are you liking Okinawa? I miss driving my car North on 58 on the weekends. Enjoy the island!!!
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SSG Lisa Rendina
I agree. Unless I know the person personally, or even professionally and I am on a first-name-basis with them, I will use the rank. To me, it's just courtesy; just like Mr. or Mrs/Ms..
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SGM Steven Richards
Courtesy should be required, not just on RallyPoint but in everything you do. As a Military Professional you would always address Soldiers by their Rank regardless of the venue, unless your married to them of course.
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SP5 David Cox
CW2 (Join to see) - As a junior enlisted I worked with an Army Captain that insisted I call him Joe when we were not out in public. I never quite felt comfortable with that (mostly because I think I was afraid I'd mess up if I ran into him out in public). If I were to run into him today, that wouldn't be an issue. On active duty, or if I were still in a reserve/NG status, then sure. Now though? Only the common courtesy drilled into me by my parents stands between me and barbarism! ;) Incidentally, I have been in the situation where, as a civilian I was required to both render and receive military courtesy. While working with the Berlin Brigade before the Wall came down, any time we traveled by car into and out of West Berlin, we would pass through a set of checkpoints (Checkpoints Alpha and Bravo, as well as the much better known Checkpoint Charlie) At the corresponding Soviet checkpoints, the driver would exit the car, receive (and return) a salute from the guard (supposedly all GRU), then get paperwork processed before proceeding. Repeat at the 2nd checkpoint. It didn't matter if you were a civilian, you returned the salute (although no one expected you to do a snappy job of it!)
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I can see that being the first step toward "you're wrong because I outrank you".
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CPT (Join to see)
Yes, professionalism is very important. Which means using the "You're wrong because I outrank you" is definitely not professional.
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PO1 Matthew Maxon
Its not a requirement any more now that I am retired. I try to treat everyone with respect that they earn now. I will not give it to someone just because they were/are senior to me in rank. If you are acting like a dickhead for no reason, you will get it back. Just my humble opinion.
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MSG (Join to see)
For the retired and veterans this would not apply but, for those of you who are on active or even the Guard and Reserves remember this,the UCMJ applies to you in "all Places". people have heard about the young Soldier on funeral detail and others, they have felt the repercussions of their actions.People who have gotten out of line on the SMA's Facebook page have been tracked down and their chains of command spoken to. Speak passionately by all means, but beware of speaking emotionally.
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