Posted on Apr 4, 2014
Should Military Police be required to meet the same requirements as Civilian Police Officers ?
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Civilian police officers must be 21 yrs old in order to be employed as a police officer. They must also attend a police academy that is several months long and pass the Police Officers Selection Test (POST). Law enforcement on a military installation involves the same crimes as the civilian sector but many MP's are very young and only attend a few weeks of the MP school. Under the Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act (LEOSA) MP's are now recognized as Federal Law Enforcement Officers yet they are not qualified to serve as police officers anywhere in the US. However under LEOSA they will soon ( with the proper credentials) be able to carry a concealed weapon nation wide regardless of state and local concealed carry law reciprocity. I firmly believe that all personnel wishing to serve as MP's should have to be 21yrs of age or older, have to attend the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center (FLETC) and pass the POST exam before being allowed to serve as an MP. This not only ensures that they are thoroughly qualified like everyone else, but also certifies them so that should they leave the Army they are qualified to serve in the civilian world.
Military police
Training
Certifications
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 41
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More training is always preferable. However, we live under budgetary constraints that often keep us from obtaining our ideal. Looking from the outside in they will always apply the law of diminishing returns.
There are a number of states that do not require a minimum age of 21 to be a civilian police officer (among them are GA, VT & PA at 18, 18 & 19 respectively). As a training coordinator for the Oregon Public Safety Academy, our recruits are over 21 IAW state law. However, a significant number of the MPs in my company are not.
Young MPs are patrol officers on military installations, assigned to duties commensurate with their level of training and experience. They have Patrol Supervisors on shift to back them up and step in should they encounter a situation they are not prepared to handle.
In 2010 the Provost Marshal General of the Army issued a directive that required annual law enforcement certification training for all MPs in the grades E1-E7 and O1-O3. This sustainment training is approximately 45 training days which far exceeds the number of maintenance/in service training civilian police officers receive. I believe the Active components were given a year to execute, while the Reserve components were given a three year window. I know Joint Base Lewis McChord in WA as well as the MP units in WA, OR, AR and VA are complying with this directive which include 250-plus law enforcement tasks required by the Office of the Provost Marshal .
I have deployed twice with MP units whose ranks included certified local, state & federal law enforcement officers (to include myself). On neither was there a readily discernible difference between the quality of performance of those officers that were certified in civilian life and those that only had the training provided by USAMPS and the MOB cadre. The Soldiers that had good leadership, a willingness to learn, a strong work ethic and initiative excelled. Since this has been the case for more than eight decades crossing multiple theaters of war, the brass and the bean counters are not likely to get on board with a costly change.
I agree that having more experienced, better trained MPs is the ideal state. However, to withhold the MOS from initial entry Soldiers would create a recruiting dilemma and a branch management nightmare of epic proportions. Additionally, as we see our funding get slashed with a return to a garrison army, it is unrealistic that we would ever get the funding to send our MPs to FLETC in addition to their MOS specific training.
There are a number of states that do not require a minimum age of 21 to be a civilian police officer (among them are GA, VT & PA at 18, 18 & 19 respectively). As a training coordinator for the Oregon Public Safety Academy, our recruits are over 21 IAW state law. However, a significant number of the MPs in my company are not.
Young MPs are patrol officers on military installations, assigned to duties commensurate with their level of training and experience. They have Patrol Supervisors on shift to back them up and step in should they encounter a situation they are not prepared to handle.
In 2010 the Provost Marshal General of the Army issued a directive that required annual law enforcement certification training for all MPs in the grades E1-E7 and O1-O3. This sustainment training is approximately 45 training days which far exceeds the number of maintenance/in service training civilian police officers receive. I believe the Active components were given a year to execute, while the Reserve components were given a three year window. I know Joint Base Lewis McChord in WA as well as the MP units in WA, OR, AR and VA are complying with this directive which include 250-plus law enforcement tasks required by the Office of the Provost Marshal .
I have deployed twice with MP units whose ranks included certified local, state & federal law enforcement officers (to include myself). On neither was there a readily discernible difference between the quality of performance of those officers that were certified in civilian life and those that only had the training provided by USAMPS and the MOB cadre. The Soldiers that had good leadership, a willingness to learn, a strong work ethic and initiative excelled. Since this has been the case for more than eight decades crossing multiple theaters of war, the brass and the bean counters are not likely to get on board with a costly change.
I agree that having more experienced, better trained MPs is the ideal state. However, to withhold the MOS from initial entry Soldiers would create a recruiting dilemma and a branch management nightmare of epic proportions. Additionally, as we see our funding get slashed with a return to a garrison army, it is unrealistic that we would ever get the funding to send our MPs to FLETC in addition to their MOS specific training.
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I can understand your point about the length of time regarding training for those in military police. I would imagine it would be the same across the board for the other branches.
Personally speaking, cop training in the Air Force is never really over. The school at Lackland covers the basics that encompass the job as a whole and that training sticks with you forever. When a cop reports to a new base, he has to learn local procedures and how things are done. Furthermore, training is conducted every year that serves as a refresher or recertification of certain aspects of the job. While the training is short compared to the civilian counterpart, it is always ongoing.
As for the age requirement, if the DoD gas no problem sending men and women between the ages of 18-20 into combat theater, then there is no reason why those under 21 can serve, protect and uphold the law.
The thoughts regarding a concealed weapon are on point, but in 10+ years of service and working as a cop, I wouldn't trust any other AFSC/MOS with that privilege and responsibility.
Personally speaking, cop training in the Air Force is never really over. The school at Lackland covers the basics that encompass the job as a whole and that training sticks with you forever. When a cop reports to a new base, he has to learn local procedures and how things are done. Furthermore, training is conducted every year that serves as a refresher or recertification of certain aspects of the job. While the training is short compared to the civilian counterpart, it is always ongoing.
As for the age requirement, if the DoD gas no problem sending men and women between the ages of 18-20 into combat theater, then there is no reason why those under 21 can serve, protect and uphold the law.
The thoughts regarding a concealed weapon are on point, but in 10+ years of service and working as a cop, I wouldn't trust any other AFSC/MOS with that privilege and responsibility.
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SFC Grundzinskyi
You bring back to mind a quote I've heard repeatedly over the years about MPs, "In the field they think they are Infantry, and in Garrison they think they are cops, when in reality they are neither."
However, I think if we are going to continue to rely on MPs to enforce the laws, they need better training in order to do so.
That's akin to saying all we need for medical care is combat life savers. Â They can take care of the injured until they get to a Dr.
Not only that but I have many friends who are civilian LEOs in multiple agencies and they have a very low regard for the majority of those applicants who are prior MPs.
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The MP school is now certified by FLETC, so their training is as good as If not better than their civilian counterparts, but, many local jurisdictions will even require veteran officers from other states to attend at least an abbreviated academy.
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JUST MY OPINION...... I think there should be TWO separate police elements ONE the standard MP units we have today to take care of the bulk of policing activities. TWO I think for Federal installations we should have Federal Marshals to handle the serious crimes like rape....murder etc
WHY?.... MPs are, many times, not equipped to handle major crimes.... during the Cpt Jeffery McDonald murder case.... for example the MP's screwed up the crime scene so bad it became impossible for the military to prosecute Cpt McDonald..... MP's even used the bathroom during the crime scene investigation.... With a few exceptions our MPs are just not capable of handling a major crime.....and increasing the training would help but probably not solve the problem....
BTW I conducted Civic Action programs in North Carolina.... during one of my MedCaps a doctor brought a 12 year old girl to me and said he suspected the girl had a brain tumor....we are prevented from actually treat patients in America so we recommended she go to a civilian clinic... the family had no money.....so my unit volunteered to pay the bill.....X-rays showed the doctor was correct.....she had a brain tumor.... again the family had no money so my unit stepped up again and paid for the operation.... WE SAVED THE LITTLE GIRLS LIFE AND SHE RECOVERED..... why did I put this little story here???? Because that doctor who saved the little girls life was CAPTAIN JEFFERY McDONALD..... my next door neighbor and friend..... I will never believe he was guilty of killing his family.... and part of the reason he spent half his life in a Federal prison was the incompetency of the Fort Bragg MP's
WHY?.... MPs are, many times, not equipped to handle major crimes.... during the Cpt Jeffery McDonald murder case.... for example the MP's screwed up the crime scene so bad it became impossible for the military to prosecute Cpt McDonald..... MP's even used the bathroom during the crime scene investigation.... With a few exceptions our MPs are just not capable of handling a major crime.....and increasing the training would help but probably not solve the problem....
BTW I conducted Civic Action programs in North Carolina.... during one of my MedCaps a doctor brought a 12 year old girl to me and said he suspected the girl had a brain tumor....we are prevented from actually treat patients in America so we recommended she go to a civilian clinic... the family had no money.....so my unit volunteered to pay the bill.....X-rays showed the doctor was correct.....she had a brain tumor.... again the family had no money so my unit stepped up again and paid for the operation.... WE SAVED THE LITTLE GIRLS LIFE AND SHE RECOVERED..... why did I put this little story here???? Because that doctor who saved the little girls life was CAPTAIN JEFFERY McDONALD..... my next door neighbor and friend..... I will never believe he was guilty of killing his family.... and part of the reason he spent half his life in a Federal prison was the incompetency of the Fort Bragg MP's
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SFC William Farrell
Interesting story MSG James Hughs. I just came across this four year old post. With the mini series that was recently on FX about the McDonald case, my two young nieces played the children in the movie. My older niece is a promising young actress and the younger one just fit the bill!
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this is a question that has been going around ever since i was at Ft Gordon Ga in 1973 ...
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The maturity of most 18 -19 -20 year old MPs are far higher than that of your normal 21 year old police recruit. I would agree that more training should be done for the actual knowledge of the criminal code, but I would put my brothers and sisters in the MP Corps up against any cops out there. Any military installation is a small city and we've been guarding the sheepdogs well for many years.
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SMSgt Thor Merich
I would disagree with you about MP's being equal to Civ LE, but I don't know where you are stationed. The minimum qualifications for LE varies by state. Back in the 80's, the Army had a exchange program where MP's could be "transferred" to a local LE department for a given period of time. Currently, the best way to upgrade your training to Civ LE standard is to be a police reserve officer with your local civilian agency. I have seen many military members make a successful transition to civ LE that way. I wish more police agencies would promote it. Its a win/win.
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SFC (Join to see)
SPC Warren Smith,
"The maturity of most 18 -19 -20 year old MPs are far higher than that of your normal 21 year old police recruit."
And exactly how did you come to that conclusion?
"The maturity of most 18 -19 -20 year old MPs are far higher than that of your normal 21 year old police recruit."
And exactly how did you come to that conclusion?
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No. Period. Military roles are not anything close to civilian roles. Security field don't need to understand how to diffuse a domestic violence event...they need to stop intruders into priority areas...and a combat role is all they need to do. You want to do both? Then do what I did...do both.
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"Since U.S. Army Military Police Soldiers and U.S. Air Force Security Forces Airmen are members of the armed forces, they are prohibited from exercising domestic law enforcement powers under the Posse Comitatus Act (PCA), a federal law passed in 1878. MPs may enforce certain limited powers, such as traffic stops, on access roads and other federal property not necessarily within the boundaries of their military base or installation. When combined, the Posse Comitatus Act and Insurrection Act place significant limits on presidential power to use the military in a law enforcement capacity. The PCA directly applies only to the Army and Air Force, without mentioning the Navy and Marine Corps. The Navy and Marine Corps are limited from enforcing domestic laws due to DoD policy and regulations."
So my answer would be NO, precisely because of the above and it moves the MP closer to a civilian enforcement role which is unacceptable under our Constitution. MP force is roughly analogous to Railroad Police, Federal Reserve Police, or any other private police force. They all defer to Civilian Police when it comes to Civilian. There is no need to elevate an MP Police Force higher than it is now. Further, each Civilian Police Department is run locally and it's defined role is different compared to another local Police Department. So I am not sure training them to Police Department Academy standards would prepare an MP for a walk over to Civilian LEO role without significant additional training.
So my answer would be NO, precisely because of the above and it moves the MP closer to a civilian enforcement role which is unacceptable under our Constitution. MP force is roughly analogous to Railroad Police, Federal Reserve Police, or any other private police force. They all defer to Civilian Police when it comes to Civilian. There is no need to elevate an MP Police Force higher than it is now. Further, each Civilian Police Department is run locally and it's defined role is different compared to another local Police Department. So I am not sure training them to Police Department Academy standards would prepare an MP for a walk over to Civilian LEO role without significant additional training.
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Military Police One Station Unit Training is 5 months longs and extremely rigorous. The belief that MP Soldiers are undertrained is untrue. However, it is valid to say that MP Soldiers are under-credenitialed. Law Enforcement Certification programs very from duty station to duty station and Commander to Commander with no obligation to meet the state credentialing requirements and with no standardized requirements from the MP Regiment
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