Should PFCs stand at "Parade Rest" for a SPC?

SSG (Join to see) I disagree. If a Soldier is in a 20 level billet, and they are writing counseling statements as an E4, that E4 needs to be lateralled to CPL from SPC if he/she expects Junior Enlisted to stand at Parade Rest. In the absence of written policy and/or directives, the doctrine in FM 7-21.13 should be adhered to. As previously stated by many, SPCs are not NCOs.

I also agree with you SFC Kendrick, that why I'm pushing for my SPC P to be lat move to CPL. I have

Excellent!

Melissa Didericksen Didericksen I don't see how that would matter. Attending an NCOES school does not make you an NCO. Having been promoted to CPL or SGT makes you an NCO. Doctrine states that Junior Enlisted as well as NCOs come to parade rest when addressing NCOs of senior rank.

I know that, that is why I had asked about pldc. I was picturing someone that was already SGT. I can recall when I was in Active Duty how I was even fought over two SPC's as to who had a supervisory role over me when I was newly in. It has been awhile now though I can almost guarantee that they too had me at parade rest at different times.

There is no such thing as ranking among those with the same rank. Remember this rule a soldier, NCO and Officer can hold a position 1 rank/grade above and 2 below. Having said that there are exceptions, I have seen an SSG be a Platoon Leader when there were no Offices present within the platoon.

Now if there were 3 SSGs in a Tank Platoon each would be a Tank Commander but the senior SSG could be the Platoon Sergeant and the position provides a senior stature and thus privilege and responsibility of the position yet I have seen a Junior SSGs be a platoon Sergeant in the same situation. If the Junior SSG was better qualified for the job he would be made the Platoon Sergeant and have the privilege and responsibility of the position. This is usually a Commander's Call.

Sir, I agree, I have seen the same situation, but unless things have changed, there may not be ranking among them, but they could find themselves be rated by equal rank because of position. However, I do not believe that parade rest would be an issue among these NCOs; not even expected. Maybe things have changed. I have not written an NCOER in 14 years, but I was a Platoon Sergeant/Bn FSNCO as a SSG and I rated other SSGs in our platoon.

It is not as simple as taking the responsibilities of a CPL. He/She need to BE a CPL.

Like I commented above, SPC (P) in a leadership position level 20 then yes since they are writing their counselings. I agree it is not just the responsibilities of being just a corporal you must BE, DO and KNOW as a corporal and separate yourself from the junior enlistees....

If he was a team leader why shouldn't the PFC stand at parade rest?

Obviously it would be different in your case as a corporal is a NCO. But what you are suggesting would mean that if the Company CBRN NCO is a SPC, then in theory even other SPC would have to stand at parade rest.

Furthermore, I would say that the ranks E-1 - E-4 are a bonding time for members of the lower ranks, as well as a time for them to build a morale and camaraderie with each other. Hence leading that when the SPC is promoted either laterally or upwards they have earned the respect of their subordinates rather than forced them to respect them.

SPC Joseph Walker , I like what you said there "bonding time for members of the [JUNIOR] ranks, as well as a time for them to build a morale and camaraderie with each other. This is a vital time for them as after as little as 2 years, many of them will be leading Soldiers as NCOs themselves. Learning how to work as a unit is an important part of that.

SPC Stephen Bobchin while I understand what you mean about correcting a PFC, I still say that a SPC has no grounds or authorization to require another Junior Enlisted member stand at Parade Rest. The only exception to this would be a command policy or directive that differs from the doctrine.

SGT (Join to see) , I understand what you mean about the Soldiers not saluting or talking to NCOs as if standing at Parade Rest doesn't matter. The First thing I would ask you is this: When you see it, do you correct the Junior Enlisted member or do you create a new standard by allowing it to continue?
As an NCO it is your responsibility to enforce all standards. That includes instances of Junior Enlisted not rendering proper customs and courtesies to NCOs and Officers.

unfortunately I am new to the NCO corps, and new to the battery I am in as well, it was my first drill with them last month and they all started telling me "were old school here, we only do that when they are in trouble" so I am actually at a loss and would really appreciate any suggestions all would have t offer. .

SGT (Join to see) First: Welcome to the Corps. Never stop growing as a professional and you will experience success. You grow by learning. You succeed by overcoming obstacles such as the one you just mentioned.

"were old school here, we only do that when they are in trouble" is a troubling and counter-intuitive statement. To me if they are indeed "old-school" then they should be adhering to the Standards and Doctrine as outlined in many a FM and AR.

So this is what I offer to you, as a new E5, teach your troops what the standard is. Show them what right looks like and where they can find the standard. Tell them what you expect from each of them, performance, uniform appearance, APFT, etc. We call this an initial counseling. You use the initial counseling for expectation management. This will set the tone moving forward for your troops.

As a new NCO you must realize and exercise your authority to make on-the-spot corrections. If you see something that is sub-standard, you are required to make that correction. Otherwise, you just create a new standard. If you receive issue for making the correction, say your peace and then take the issue to the next NCO in the support channel. This is important: ALWAYS attempt to correct deficiencies at the lowest level. Repeat this process as necessary.

Lastly, good luck and God speed.

SPC (Join to see) , could you elaborate on other exceptions? I disagree with your statement as it is contrary to the doctrine outlined in the FM. If a unit policy or directive from the unit commander said otherwise, I would always defer to the doctrine. Which in this case says that Junior Enlisted stand at parade rest for NCOs. SPCs are not NCOs.

SFC Michael Hanke You are right that becoming an NCO is an honor and privilege. I disagree with the rank of SPC "or full bird private" be used as a tool to weed out those that do not meet the standards. Realistically, that needs to be done much sooner. Units would be better served if they didn't automatically advance every PVT to PV2 and PV2 to PFC etc.. solely because they are eligible. An objective board process should be used to determine whether those ranks are deserved based on merit. For a commander to just sign the advancement roster promoting those young troops is not good form.

I understand your point of view. But as a Soldier and not a Marine as yourself, the MCO does not apply to me or the situation that I brought up.

I do find it interesting that only Senior NCOs rate parade rest when spoken to as you put it. I suppose it has worked that way for the Corps for a long time so why change it now.

I understand the Army is different, I was just stating how it is in the Marines for comparison. And it's one of those things where yes, technically you don't have to stand at parade rest for an NCO, but almost nobody would back you up if you chose not to and tried to say your actions were okay. It's kind of an unwritten rule, akin to how the MCO only requires you to get a haircut every two weeks but everywhere you go, you're probably gonna have to get one every week.

It is necessary for SPC and below to stand at parade rest when addressing a Non-Commissioned Officer (SGT and above), however, it is situation dependent and the PSG is responsible to coach teach and mentor his/her Soldiers on how to use the authority given to non-commissioned officers.

@LTC Mark Gavula, that responsibility lies with senior enlisted at every level. And it should never stop.